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    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Maserati gained a lot of prestige in Germany too but it is still far away from Ferrari or even Porsche in my opinion. Maserati is "coming strong" right now, so maybe in a year or two, they succeed.

    I like the Quattroporte a lot, I just wish they would finally grant this fantastic sports sedan the engine and performance it deserves.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC:
    artur777:

     RC,

     

    I never thought that social neighbourhood can influence greatly choosing the car model

    Is it that tough in Germany where you live?

    Rgrd X5M - it is very nice and I think its the best SUV currently at the market

     

    A little "simple" example:

    in Germany, when a doctor drives a Porsche, some people may actually avoid him because they think he has enough already.

    In other countries, for example in countries of the former eastern block, people avoid a doctor with a cheap and old car because they actually think he isn't good enough if he can't afford something nicer. Smiley

    According to an Audi official paper, they developed the new Audi A8 to "fit" into the current social climate in Germany and other countries. Well...nothing more to say.

    Regarding the Panamera: I saw the Panamera next to a Mercedes S class and the new BMW 7 series and yes, it isn't actually much bigger but it LOOKS much bigger in any way possible. My dealer could actually sing a nice song about this but I mentioned it over and over again. This is a car for countries where the social perception is different. For Germany, this is definetely the wrong car, even for people who drive a S-class or 7 series BMW.

    I would have loved to own the Panamera but I want to keep my customers. Smiley

    if this is true then this is a sad reflection on German society and is no reflection on the car at all.Smiley
     

     

    If you have worked hard and you have such a car then good luck to you. Nothing to be ashamed of and if people are jealous of it then that is their problem. A hot car is a reward for success and others should look at as inspiration not envy. A very sad attitude for very small minded people.

    If your customers dont like your success then I would find new customersSmiley

     

    Have a great christmas!!!


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC: 

    Surprisingly, VW has a pretty bad reputation in the US and other parts of the world. In Germany, the brand VW actually has a pretty good reputation, next to Audi and BMW, maybe at a slightly lower level.

    Also don't forget that VW owns Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley and of course Porsche. They also own Seat, Skoda and the well known truck manufacturer Scania.

     

    I know about VW's popularity inside Germany, it's their national brand and quite possibly due to VW's working class root. It's pretty much Porsche->MB->BMW->Audi->VW.

    With all the prestige brands within the VW group, it's beyond comprehension why VW would crowd the upper market range with the VW brand instead of allowing the other brands within the group to work it out. VW the brand has always been the value brand, it's how it got started and found success, and how the world viewed the brand image. Piech's logic is just madness, or maybe just his ego.

    In my college days, Civics, Toyota Corollas, various GM compact cars are the norm for new cars for those who can afford, VW is also on the radar but it's a little step up, GTI is like the ultimate car for us poor college students. Even a second hand Golf is viewed as better than a brand new Civic.  VW brand image is beyond comparison in the econo cars. But beyond that market, VW the brand just does not have enough to compete against the Acuras and Lexus, not to mention the even higher class Audi, BMW and Mercs.


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    The VW Golf, VW Polo and VW Passat are probably the most popular "family" cars in Germany.

    I can also see many Opel Insignia lately, apparently Opel gained some ground and to be honest, this car doesn't look bad at all, even if a little bit rice...ish.

    My two favorite brands, besides Porsche of course, are still Audi and BMW. When I look along my street where I live (middle-class houses on the lower side of the hill, upper-class houses on the upper side of the hill), I can see mainly Audis, this is weird.

    I never understood why VW put the Phaeton on the market but I know that Mr. Piech has his own "world" of viewing things. On the other hand, he is an engineer and he loves cars (he picked up his Carrera GT at Porsche Leipzig personally and drove it back home to Austria by himself by that time), so maybe something good is going to come out of him now "pulling the strings" at Porsche.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    In August our leasing contract for Cayenne turbo ends. A X6 M is 600€ (including tax) cheaper per month.   :-O    I think we will make it!


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    turbosteff:

    In August our leasing contract for Cayenne turbo ends. A X6 M is 600€ (including tax) cheaper per month.   :-O    I think we will make it!

    So the X6M is promoted as the "affordable" Cayenne?


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Nope but the public perception of the X6 in Germany is the one of a very exclusive SUV, I'd say at the same level as a Cayenne.

    The X5 is a different story, nobody actually cares about this "bread & butter" car, the perfect understatement SUV.

    Btw: what the heck is going on in the US regarding X5/X6 M prices ? I even read about markups or only 3-5k below MSRP.

    Over here in Germany, the X5M is sold with 10-15% rebate, even up to over 20% depending on the dealer. We're talking brandnew car ordered to own specs.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

     When you read somthing about the biggest gas guzzler then the Cayenne turbo is THE example. So far I've never read this about the X6.  

    BYTW: last friday they scratched the door of our Cayenne in front of a supermarket. :-(( 


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    turbosteff:

     When you read somthing about the biggest gas guzzler then the Cayenne turbo is THE example. So far I've never read this about the X6.  

    BYTW: last friday they scratched the door of our Cayenne in front of a supermarket. :-(( 


    Thats right and sorry to hear about the scratch. Our Cayenne was scratched all over, mostly keyed but the paint is pretty tough and it never really got too deep. The X6 has not the reputation of a gas guzzler over here, right but the reputation of a luxury SUV, thats what I was referring to.

    The X5 is a completely different story, I mean almost "everybody" drives a X5 or at least X3 in Bavaria, this car is like the SUV Volkswagen. Smiley I doubt there will be problems with the X5 and even less if I put the 3.0d badge on it. Smiley Smiley

    Funny "side story" regarding the X: when I told my Porsche dealer a couple of days ago that I sold the Cayenne and that somebody will pick up the summer tires any time soon and that I ordered a BMW X5 instead (didn't mention the M), he asked me cold blooded "is your business really running that bad ?". Smiley Smiley


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    svtrader1:
    RC:

    Well...what would Ferraristi say if they knew that the new California actually was...a Maserati. 


    In the US Maserati is a highly regarded brand. More so than Audi, BMW, MB, Porsche, Jaguar, etc.
    You'll be notice and respected.SmileySmiley


    Well, you'll be noticed over here too in a Ferrari, Maserati or whatever luxury sportscar brand. Unfortunately there IS a problem with that "respect" thingie...no chance, on the contrary.

    Even people who are wealthy are very conservative with their car taste. A 911 could be OK while a Cayenne is not. The older the 911, the better. Smiley

    It is a weird world...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC:

    Even people who are wealthy are very conservative with their car taste. A 911 could be OK while a Cayenne is not. The older the 911, the better. Smiley

    It is a weird world...

    I can understand this logic. Driving a 911 means to the average person in the street that you are an enthusiast, a connoisseur of  cars, a sportsman. Moreover, 911's (not turbo or GTs) understated looks help in this respect.

    OTOH a Cayenne carries the connotation and stigma of throwing lots of money away, wasting valuable fuel and polluting the forestsSmiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


     
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