Jan 17, 2008 1:08:48 AM
- TexasTurbo
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
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Jan 17, 2008 1:16:26 AM
- turbonator
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Jan 17, 2008 5:14:50 AM
- cookie monster
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Most likely with the FL of the TURBO which should debut in 2009 with PDK. I have confirmed reliable source that the 997 FL fleet 2008 september (model year 2009) will all be equipped with PDK but PAG has been keeping all mechanical updates SEALED. Looks are all out but mechanical updates are not known for some reason.
Until we see something like DCT
http://shrani.si/f/r/10E/3xFS3lZm/mdctgbfv.pdf
on the new M3, we can never be sure. If the M3 is upgrading to dual clutch auto/manual, I think PAG should not wait too long to upgrade its fleet. However, I would not be surprised that they are still trying to sell the badge more than updates... but one day they must wake up that for the legend to continue, revolution may be needed at some point. The competition is catching up hard and fast and unless things come up, all we see would be the rear of the new M batch in front of us or the rear of the GTR badge.
Until we see something like DCT
http://shrani.si/f/r/10E/3xFS3lZm/mdctgbfv.pdf
on the new M3, we can never be sure. If the M3 is upgrading to dual clutch auto/manual, I think PAG should not wait too long to upgrade its fleet. However, I would not be surprised that they are still trying to sell the badge more than updates... but one day they must wake up that for the legend to continue, revolution may be needed at some point. The competition is catching up hard and fast and unless things come up, all we see would be the rear of the new M batch in front of us or the rear of the GTR badge.
Jan 17, 2008 7:10:05 AM
- Malmsteen
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Jan 17, 2008 8:41:53 AM
- cookie monster
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Jan 17, 2008 11:03:29 AM
- SeattleGT3
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Quote:
jeffk68 said:
Has anyone been put on a waiting list for a 2009 turbo PDK? If so, what are they telling you for an approximate make/delivery date?
Yes I have a deposit down. I am hoping to get one in the fall but no promise. My dealer did tell me that they were told to make sure you sell your GT2's(Like that would be hard) because what we have coming will be amazing. Anyway The Nissan Dealer "almost" sold me on a GTR but wifey rightly said "come on you are a porshe Guy" She is right so I will wait.
Jan 17, 2008 2:25:48 PM
- atomic80
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Quote:
997CarreraS said:Quote:
jeffk68 said:
Has anyone been put on a waiting list for a 2009 turbo PDK? If so, what are they telling you for an approximate make/delivery date?
Yes I have a deposit down. I am hoping to get one in the fall but no promise. My dealer did tell me that they were told to make sure you sell your GT2's(Like that would be hard) because what we have coming will be amazing. Anyway The Nissan Dealer "almost" sold me on a GTR but wifey rightly said "come on you are a porshe Guy" She is right so I will wait.
You mean the Nissan dealerships already have those GT-Rs in stock or they're incoming? And your wife is right, you ARE a Porsche guy.
Jan 17, 2008 3:19:47 PM
- SeattleGT3
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Quote:
atomic80 said:Quote:
997CarreraS said:Quote:
jeffk68 said:
Has anyone been put on a waiting list for a 2009 turbo PDK? If so, what are they telling you for an approximate make/delivery date?
Yes I have a deposit down. I am hoping to get one in the fall but no promise. My dealer did tell me that they were told to make sure you sell your GT2's(Like that would be hard) because what we have coming will be amazing. Anyway The Nissan Dealer "almost" sold me on a GTR but wifey rightly said "come on you are a porshe Guy" She is right so I will wait.
You mean the Nissan dealerships already have those GT-Rs in stock or they're incoming? And your wife is right, you ARE a Porsche guy.
No Yonker Nissan in Renton is getting 3. They get them this summer and they are pre-selling them for 25k Over and are taking 10K deposits. I also was not signed up for the additional 25K Also seattle dealers are asking 25 over.
Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Thanks luwalira but I should get my Scuderia this spring 
I hate Turbo cars. I rather be slower and make more noise than be "on rails efficient" and silent. I believe such outrageous cars are made for fun not to compete. If I want to compete I go and pick an Audi diesel 
(just kidding)
I hate Turbo cars. I rather be slower and make more noise than be "on rails efficient" and silent. I believe such outrageous cars are made for fun not to compete. If I want to compete I go and pick an Audi diesel (just kidding)
Jan 18, 2008 3:10:36 AM
- turbonator
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Quote:
cookie monster said:
Until we see something like DCT
http://shrani.si/f/r/10E/3xFS3lZm/mdctgbfv.pdf
on the new M3, we can never be sure. If the M3 is upgrading to dual clutch auto/manual, I think PAG should not wait too long to upgrade its fleet. However, I would not be surprised that they are still trying to sell the badge more than updates... but one day they must wake up that for the legend to continue, revolution may be needed at some point. The competition is catching up hard and fast and unless things come up, all we see would be the rear of the new M batch in front of us or the rear of the GTR badge.
BMW's DCT sounds great. I have an M3 with SMG now and love it. I noticed that the DCT gets to 100kph 0.2 sec quicker and has much more aggressive gear ratios.
Jan 18, 2008 6:56:22 PM
- matdaytona
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
I have a deposit down for a PDK GT3 facelifted, and the dealer told me he is almost certain the GT3/turbos will follow the 997 facelifted by a few months, with PDK and a few other improvements.
He expects them to be presented in february 2009 and available for summer/september 2009...
He expects them to be presented in february 2009 and available for summer/september 2009...
I rather be faster and quieter
Quote:
Pentium said:
Thanks luwalira but I should get my Scuderia this spring
And I wish the 997TT were quieter! I'm exactly your opposite, I hate to make noise as I feel like an [beep] making babies cry and everybody within two blocks looking over with an unfriendly stare.
More importantly, the louder the cars, the less likely I can truly enjoy them on the street these days. The added attention from cops makes it very difficult to have a decent drive without being harassed. Even with my V1 and laser jammer, I need all the help I can get, being a fairly impatient driver.
Luckily with AWD, I can have some fun in bad weather, when cops don't usually bother setting up speed traps.
To me, loud engine and exhaust are seen as the unfortunate byproduct of increased performance. Being loud for the sake of being loud is meaningless. I get excited when my back is pushed against the seat, and not when the engine/exhaust/tire noise is flooding my music.
I guess we all have difference meaning of fun. I truly enjoy top performance, but in the wolf in sheep's skin spirit. I actually find the 997TT a little too loud. But then, it's an acceptable compromise considering what it can do. Come to think of it, I think the chassis can handle 50-100 extra horses too.
Re: I rather be faster and quieter
W211, to each it's own BUT:
1. I don't drive fast in town so I don't see how I can make babies cry
And around where I live everybody cheers when they hear a nice sound (by the way: drivers also they let you pass, not like in the states where everybody is trying to block you)
2. a couple of time, lazy drivers heard me coming, which is always a good thing
3. cops? I live in Eastern Europe, Romania. So it's less of a problem
But indeed they are starting to get more annoying each year.
4. AWD: I am driving my 997C2 ALL year, ALL day. And the roads here are at least two times worse than anything in Western Europe. That's what I call fun: getting around a corner on ice, slower sometime than the AWD car behind you (if it's a less experienced driver, that is) but without crashing or spinning. I feel alive when I do that. It's even more rewarding because the speeds on snow and ice are not so high so you really have time to "enjoy" the show and feel the car.
Bottom line (for me at least): if I need a "comuter" than I would pick a turbo+awd+automatic diesel. No 300bhp+ for sure. I don't need that in a comuter. That's a car to relax. I also believe that it's more dangerous to drive hard a powerful awd&turbo&automatic car, on a long term, because you get used to have the car compensate for your mistakes. On the other hand, if I want a "toy": midengine or rear-engine, NA and manual/DSG. This way, when I switch between cars, I really feel alive. And I feel the car talking to me. I HATE numb steering and soundproofing materials.
1. I don't drive fast in town so I don't see how I can make babies cry
And around where I live everybody cheers when they hear a nice sound (by the way: drivers also they let you pass, not like in the states where everybody is trying to block you)2. a couple of time, lazy drivers heard me coming, which is always a good thing
3. cops? I live in Eastern Europe, Romania. So it's less of a problem
But indeed they are starting to get more annoying each year.4. AWD: I am driving my 997C2 ALL year, ALL day. And the roads here are at least two times worse than anything in Western Europe. That's what I call fun: getting around a corner on ice, slower sometime than the AWD car behind you (if it's a less experienced driver, that is) but without crashing or spinning. I feel alive when I do that. It's even more rewarding because the speeds on snow and ice are not so high so you really have time to "enjoy" the show and feel the car.
Bottom line (for me at least): if I need a "comuter" than I would pick a turbo+awd+automatic diesel. No 300bhp+ for sure. I don't need that in a comuter. That's a car to relax. I also believe that it's more dangerous to drive hard a powerful awd&turbo&automatic car, on a long term, because you get used to have the car compensate for your mistakes. On the other hand, if I want a "toy": midengine or rear-engine, NA and manual/DSG. This way, when I switch between cars, I really feel alive. And I feel the car talking to me. I HATE numb steering and soundproofing materials.
Re: I rather be faster and quieter
Pentium, yes, I think I would have different priorities too if in Romania.
My problem is that whenever I'm in my larger quieter commuter car, I get impatient and miss the power and added traction of my faster commuter 997.
The PDK should be interesting, it should make the 911 an even better car to drive around town.
My problem is that whenever I'm in my larger quieter commuter car, I get impatient and miss the power and added traction of my faster commuter 997.
The PDK should be interesting, it should make the 911 an even better car to drive around town.
Jan 21, 2008 10:15:30 AM
- cookie monster
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
I am starting to suspect that model year 2009 Fall delivery may not have PDK. PAG has been awfully quiet on mechanical changes and I suspect that it would simply put DFI tech from CAYENNE IN and maintain minimum mechanical changes and make this one cosmetic. It's been way long since the rumoured and expected rollout. If anything, has anyone thought of the possibility that they will upgrade the box by simply using the Cayenne's 6 sp auto box over the tiptronic and save the PDK altogether for next iteration coming out in 2011?
Jan 21, 2008 10:46:24 AM
- Moogle
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Jan 21, 2008 7:23:47 PM
- EnglishManInNY
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
Porsche need to wake up and smell the coffee!
I was planning to replace my 997S with a TT + PDK 4-6months out. But with that being no where to be seen my money may go elsewhere like a GT-R & E93 M3 convertible combined for the same money practically...
I really want to buy a porsche but they are falling so far behind.....
They are too focused on making money - guess what they probably won't be getting mine...
I was planning to replace my 997S with a TT + PDK 4-6months out. But with that being no where to be seen my money may go elsewhere like a GT-R & E93 M3 convertible combined for the same money practically...
I really want to buy a porsche but they are falling so far behind.....
They are too focused on making money - guess what they probably won't be getting mine...
Jan 23, 2008 7:14:37 AM
- cookie monster
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
EnglishManInNY, I agree. They are falling behind not only in HP department, but also in technology department. PCM lacks IPOD connectivity, Engine lacks HP/DFI, Gearbox lacks dual clutch option... they are falling miles behind compared to others in the same universe like Ferrari, Maserati... While the Panamera is coming out, I think very soon, they have little marketing points left except living on an empty legacy that has the Porsche badge. They are getting so complacent, so lazy... that you wonder if PAG can still leverage on the 911's iconic status and rear flat 6 to keep this its cash cow status. They are the slowest to come out with anything. For that sort of price, something costing 1/4 of a 911 namely the Golf VR 32 DSG can nibble on the heels of a 4S it is quite embarassing and a shame. So I wonder how PAG will feel falling behind so far... now for the M3 E93 and GTR as well as even the Golf DSG drivers... those iconic lights on a 911 in the rearview mirror certainly look great! Maybe this will provide some motivation but I doubt it.
Jan 23, 2008 7:32:52 AM
- Moogle
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
Quote:
cookie monster said:
EnglishManInNY, I agree. They are falling behind not only in HP department, but also in technology department. PCM lacks IPOD connectivity, Engine lacks HP/DFI, Gearbox lacks dual clutch option... they are falling miles behind compared to others in the same universe like Ferrari, Maserati... While the Panamera is coming out, I think very soon, they have little marketing points left except living on an empty legacy that has the Porsche badge. They are getting so complacent, so lazy... that you wonder if PAG can still leverage on the 911's iconic status and rear flat 6 to keep this its cash cow status. They are the slowest to come out with anything. For that sort of price, something costing 1/4 of a 911 namely the Golf VR 32 DSG can nibble on the heels of a 4S it is quite embarassing and a shame. So I wonder how PAG will feel falling behind so far... now for the M3 E93 and GTR as well as even the Golf DSG drivers... those iconic lights on a 911 in the rearview mirror certainly look great! Maybe this will provide some motivation but I doubt it.
Agree 100%. Fortunately for Porsche there are plenty of poseurs that will buy the cars with inferior technology/power just for the name. Bad for us though.
Jan 23, 2008 7:47:29 AM
- ADias
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
Quote:
cookie monster said:
EnglishManInNY, I agree. They are falling behind not only in HP department, but also in technology department. PCM lacks IPOD connectivity, Engine lacks HP/DFI, Gearbox lacks dual clutch option... they are falling miles behind compared to others in the same universe like Ferrari, Maserati... While the Panamera is coming out, I think very soon, they have little marketing points left except living on an empty legacy that has the Porsche badge. They are getting so complacent, so lazy... that you wonder if PAG can still leverage on the 911's iconic status and rear flat 6 to keep this its cash cow status. They are the slowest to come out with anything. For that sort of price, something costing 1/4 of a 911 namely the Golf VR 32 DSG can nibble on the heels of a 4S it is quite embarassing and a shame. So I wonder how PAG will feel falling behind so far... now for the M3 E93 and GTR as well as even the Golf DSG drivers... those iconic lights on a 911 in the rearview mirror certainly look great! Maybe this will provide some motivation but I doubt it.
I agree with most of what you say. I said as much some time ago and was vilified.
Jan 24, 2008 3:29:15 PM
- cookie monster
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Jan 24, 2008 3:33:44 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Jan 24, 2008 9:49:23 PM
- TexasTurbo
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Jan 24, 2008 9:53:51 PM
- devo
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Re: 2009 PDK WAITING LIST
Quote:
jeffk68 said:
I just put down a deposit this afternoon here in Dallas for a TT PDK. They tell me it will be included along with the FL for the 09 builds this summer.
Just because they took your money doesn't mean it will be available for MY2009. I hope that you are right, but I haven't heard of any confirmation of this.
Jan 24, 2008 9:59:21 PM
- TexasTurbo
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Jan 28, 2008 4:07:37 PM
- CarreraTT
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
they are falling miles behind compared to others in the same universe like Ferrari, Maserati...
____________________________________________________
One thing Porsche has never fallen behind in is durability. That may be the issue with the delay in the PDK.
For example, the Ferrari / Maserati F1 gearbox is very fragile. The clutch is only good, on average, for 5-8K miles.....and then you get a $7500 repair bill.
In addition, there are limitations on using it in reverse. My driveway has a slight incline. The best place in my garage for me to park my Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa would have been to back it up the driveway and hug the wall on the passenger's side. But I only tried it twice ...both times white, acrid smoke came billowing out from under the car. That clutch simply can't handle the stress of backing up a slight incline.
My neighbor reports a similar problem with his F430.
Whether or not that is a problem in the development of the PDK, I don't know. But I am sure that Porsche will never sell a car in which an experienced driver goes through a clutch so easily/quickly.
____________________________________________________
One thing Porsche has never fallen behind in is durability. That may be the issue with the delay in the PDK.
For example, the Ferrari / Maserati F1 gearbox is very fragile. The clutch is only good, on average, for 5-8K miles.....and then you get a $7500 repair bill.
In addition, there are limitations on using it in reverse. My driveway has a slight incline. The best place in my garage for me to park my Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa would have been to back it up the driveway and hug the wall on the passenger's side. But I only tried it twice ...both times white, acrid smoke came billowing out from under the car. That clutch simply can't handle the stress of backing up a slight incline.
My neighbor reports a similar problem with his F430.
Whether or not that is a problem in the development of the PDK, I don't know. But I am sure that Porsche will never sell a car in which an experienced driver goes through a clutch so easily/quickly.
Jan 28, 2008 4:45:41 PM
- turbonator
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
Quote:
CarreraTT said:
they are falling miles behind compared to others in the same universe like Ferrari, Maserati...
____________________________________________________
One thing Porsche has never fallen behind in is durability. That may be the issue with the delay in the PDK.
Good point about reliability, but look at BMW. They are pushing 500 hp in the M5 with SMG. Based on that I would say that Porsche is behind any way one looks at it.
Jan 28, 2008 10:05:19 PM
- matdaytona
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Re: I rather be faster and quieter
Quote:
CarreraTT said:
they are falling miles behind compared to others in the same universe like Ferrari, Maserati...
____________________________________________________
One thing Porsche has never fallen behind in is durability. That may be the issue with the delay in the PDK.
For example, the Ferrari / Maserati F1 gearbox is very fragile. The clutch is only good, on average, for 5-8K miles.....and then you get a $7500 repair bill.
In addition, there are limitations on using it in reverse. My driveway has a slight incline. The best place in my garage for me to park my Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa would have been to back it up the driveway and hug the wall on the passenger's side. But I only tried it twice ...both times white, acrid smoke came billowing out from under the car. That clutch simply can't handle the stress of backing up a slight incline.
My neighbor reports a similar problem with his F430.
Whether or not that is a problem in the development of the PDK, I don't know. But I am sure that Porsche will never sell a car in which an experienced driver goes through a clutch so easily/quickly.
I agree, I test drove a Gallardo Supperleggera on a track last summer, with the E-Gear box, and was thrilled by the car and the gear box until the engine suddenly stopped going over 2000revs after 2 laps... the problem was linked to the gear box although they didn't tell me exactly what the issue was... apparently it wasn't the first time it happened on the car...
I have a deposit too on a FL GT3, and my dealer tells me I will get it for Fall 2009, but I would prefer not getting it rather than having this kind of problem with the PDK gear box
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