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    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:
    Gnil:

    I am all in favor of higher speed limits. I love driving fast. But let's stay real here. Higher speeds are more dangerous.Try to crash at 200 km/h and let's see if you are as safe as crashing at 100 km/h. 

     

    Why would you crash at 200 kph? Smiley Or at 100 kph for that matter? Smiley

    This is why we have something called anticipatory driving. Good drivers do that. It comes with experience and age (aka wisdom Smiley). Of course shit happens but when it happens, it usually happens when we expect it the least.

    I am much more concerned about technical defects and issues than the driving speed/style itself. This is why I do not "experiment" with brakes, tires and stuff like that.

    You said it, sh.t happens. And if it happens at 200 the result will not be the same as 100. Higher speeds are more dangerous. Or if you want to play with words, consequences of higher speed are more dangerous. 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Most accidents happen in parking lots or driveways. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:

    Most accidents happen in parking lots or driveways. 

    and none on the moon 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Nick, paying attention is good advice if your traveling at speeds which allow the car and driver to react.

    Tim, your argument about boredom doesn’t make sense. If you’re bored, it’s more dangerous to drive at high speeds because your not paying attention. Read my response to Carlos. 

    Carlos, you have a warped opinion of government. You think there is evil intent of most government actions. However, I do agree that travel at slower speeds will bring more traffic around you. But with more traffic a driver becomes more aware. 

    We all want to defend our precious high performance sport cars. They are fun and provide us an escape from the mundane. But let’s not fool ourselves. The escape we seek has everything to do with risk. To attempt to justify the risk by claiming it’s not risk but safety is like playing Russian Roulette but telling yourself the car is empty. When it isn’t. enlightened

     

    If someone isn't paying attention, even travelling at parking lot speed is dangerous. 

    Most car's capability is far exceeding what's needed at whatever the speed limit is set, the limiting factor for reactions and avoidance is the driver's skills and attention focus. 

    And we are back to square one, paying attention is the single most important factor in safety.


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    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Tim:

    That's the reason adaptive speed limits make sense - if there is a lot of traffic, bad weather or whatever, bring down the speed limit to increase capacity/ safety. On an empty Autobahn in perfect conditions, lift the limit. One can also use this to bring down the speed delta in situation where traffic is dense but you can still drive very fast in the left lane. 

    https://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irre0.html

    See Davey Warren's piece above ^

    Adaptive Speed Limits for an Intelligent Transportation System.pdf

    Safest Speed.jpg

    Seems like automatically adjusting the speed limit to the recently observed 85th percentile would improve traffic safety!!
    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Time response is impacted by speed, vision angle is narrowed by speed so any miss or any error at higher speed will automatically lead to a more dangerous situation...more info to treat so obviously more risk as more focus is involved hence more fatigue!

    In term of energy and as Gnil mentioned, a crash at 200 is not the same as the one at 100 because of energy accumulation.

    Add to that, more consumption, quicker wear of the entire system, etc...

    Faster speed on roads are safer than slower speed is obviously a non sense but it also depends on the situation and location. Try 200km/h on autobahn on a limited 110km/h is not safer. the opposite situation will not be better though but there is a minimum speed on highways for a reason...

    Try 80km/h in a city center with loads of pedestrians instead of 30km/h or 50km/h will not be safer as well.

    Compare apple to apple within the same basket...otherwise it is completely biased.


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    the-missile:

    Time response is impacted by speed, vision angle is narrowed by speed so any miss or any error at higher speed will automatically lead to a more dangerous situation...more info to treat so obviously more risk as more focus is involved hence more fatigue!

    In term of energy and as Gnil mentioned, a crash at 200 is not the same as the one at 100 because of energy accumulation.

    Add to that, more consumption, quicker wear of the entire system, etc...

    Faster speed on roads are safer than slower speed is obviously a non sense but it also depends on the situation and location. Try 200km/h on autobahn on a limited 110km/h is not safer. the opposite situation will not be better though but there is a minimum speed on highways for a reason...

    Try 80km/h in a city center with loads of pedestrians instead of 30km/h or 50km/h will not be safer as well.

    Compare apple to apple within the same basket...otherwise it is completely biased.


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014

     

    No one here is saying speed ISN'T a factor. It is still, but not a major one like paying attention while driving. 

    When one is talking about speed, it's not the absolute speed that's important, it's the relative difference in speed between objects. 

    Mike's post about 85th percentile is about minimizing the relative speed between objects on the highway. Most people die at a speed they are comfortable at, regardless of what the posted limit is, and that's the flow of the traffic speed, a natural equilibrium or sort for that stretch of road. It could be AT the speed limit, or it could be at 10 over, 20 over or 10 UNDER. Any deviation from that flow of traffic speed will be dangerous, be it faster or slower. The slower than flow of traffic cars post more danger to the others than faster cars simply because they will be a moving barriers for others, especially if they don't check mirror before pulling out to the passing lane. 

    Germans are better drivers in general simply because they are much better educated on driving. Keeping right unless passing is ingrained to them. THAT one point is the single most important point for safe driving. Next up would be checking mirrors and surrounding and be aware and alert at all times for events. Of all the places I have driven in the world, I feel the safest on German roads. Cars on highway with German plates seldom, if at all, try to force their own passing maneuver. They could be coming up to a slow moving truck and needed to either pull out to pass or slow down and wait. German plated cars most often than not will slow down if they see someone coming up fast on the passing lane, they will wait their turn after the fast car have passed. The worse ever I have seen are the ones with the ugly yellow NL plates and a lot of the North American drivers, they do not check their mirrors before pulling out, ignoring what's coming up behind them, and worse of all, most of them actually slows down after pulling out and do their pass. Smiley These people have zero spacial awareness and shouldn't even qualify to get a driver's license in the first place. They have absolutely no idea that what they are doing is endangering themselves, their passengers, the cars coming up behind them and also the car/truck they are passing. 

     

     

     


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    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Belgium plates or Luxembourg's ones are not far from NL smiley, I think they all went to same driving schools


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    Nick, paying attention is good advice if your traveling at speeds which allow the car and driver to react.

    Tim, your argument about boredom doesn’t make sense. If you’re bored, it’s more dangerous to drive at high speeds because your not paying attention. Read my response to Carlos. 

    Carlos, you have a warped opinion of government. You think there is evil intent of most government actions. However, I do agree that travel at slower speeds will bring more traffic around you. But with more traffic a driver becomes more aware. 

    We all want to defend our precious high performance sport cars. They are fun and provide us an escape from the mundane. But let’s not fool ourselves. The escape we seek has everything to do with risk. To attempt to justify the risk by claiming it’s not risk but safety is like playing Russian Roulette but telling yourself the car is empty. When it isn’t. enlightened

     

    If someone isn't paying attention, even travelling at parking lot speed is dangerous. 

    Most car's capability is far exceeding what's needed at whatever the speed limit is set, the limiting factor for reactions and avoidance is the driver's skills and attention focus. 

    And we are back to square one, paying attention is the single most important factor in safety.

    Aka anticipatory driving. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    the-missile:

    Belgium plates or Luxembourg's ones are not far from NL smiley, I think they all went to same driving schools

    In Germany, we have a "nickname" for drivers from NL: NL = Nur Links (only left). Smiley Smiley 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    I don't know what you're talking about! indecision


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Joost:

    I don't know what you're talking about! indecision

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:
    the-missile:

    Belgium plates or Luxembourg's ones are not far from NL smiley, I think they all went to same driving schools

    In Germany, we have a "nickname" for drivers from NL: NL = Nur Links (only left)Smiley Smiley 

     SmileySmileySmiley

    Even I (who only occasionally drives on Autobahnen) recognize the terror of the 80kph NLer that might switch lanes into my path at any instant.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:
    the-missile:

    Belgium plates or Luxembourg's ones are not far from NL smiley, I think they all went to same driving schools

    In Germany, we have a "nickname" for drivers from NL: NL = Nur Links (only left). Smiley Smiley 

     

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    OMG you killing me. And yes, I have never seen a yellow NL plate car on the right lane ever. 


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    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Joost:

    I don't know what you're talking about! indecision

     

    it's ok, it was a generalization and there are always exceptions.

    Rarely though. Smiley

    Anyways those Dutch drivers are okay inside the Netherlands, I didn't quite have a problem with them once I crossed the border heading into Amsterdam. For some reason they are sort of lost once they got on the Autobahn.


    --

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Suddenly all Dutch users have left Rennteam... angry indecision

    Nah, they are fun. wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:

    Suddenly all Dutch users have left Rennteam... angry indecision

    Nah, they are fun. wink

    I assume Dutch drivers participating here are in the left lane because they are trying to overtake @ 300 km/hr Smiley


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:

    Suddenly all Dutch users have left Rennteam... angry indecision

    Nah, they are fun. wink

     

    At least they are predictable, one KNOWS they will pull out whenever there are cars coming just so they can be a moving road block. I simply don't understand WHY they would follow a truck for really long stretches and not pass the truck, but the moment they see someone coming up in the mirror they will suddenly decided to pull out and take another 2 km to pass the truck.

    And I have yet to see a UA plated car that isn't driven by maniac. 

    I plated cars loved taking apexes across 2 lanes on bends. Especially the vans. 

    Some other countries' drivers however are quite unpredictable, I still can't generalize them after all these years, F plated  ones are one of those. B ones are another enigma, some will be like crazies and others are extremely law abiding. 


    --

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Well, a while ago I was often in Germany for work, so I “learnt” their habits a bit better. Of course, in NL we have a speedlimit of 130kph, so mostly on highways you have a speed difference of only 30kph, as cars in the keft lane tend to drive about 100kph. So, when overtaking you normally don’t need to pay attention to cars driving 200+ in you rear view mirror.

    What I found in Germany is that people are a bit more strick in which lane they are driving, and the distance behind you that they move to the left lane is a clear indication of their speed. Pay attention to that and you’re golden most of the times.

    In the Netherlands, Belgian and French drivers are a nightmare, as they are unpredictable and tend to show the behavior that you described; driving in the right lane until you come up behind them in the left lane, then move in front of you for an indefinite time and reason and the move right again, often without even overtaking anything… I just don’t understand them.

    Ah wll, I guess we all think we drive fantastically, it is just that there are a lot of unwritten rules and maneurisms that you take for granted in your own country, and it becomes “interesting” when you drive abroad.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Read the NL comments here and then came across this article on The Drive.  Poor Ferrari 488 Pista. https://www.thedrive.com/news/40493/embarrassing-ferrari-488-pista-crash-is-a-lesson-on-knowing-your-limits
     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    What the article doesn’t tell is that the left rear wheel driveline popped out, the wheel steered out as a result and the driver could never have saved it… It wasn’t driver fault this time.DBF5F374-7D83-48B5-A146-043742E03432.jpegIMG_2905.MP4


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Joost:

    What the article doesn’t tell is that the left rear wheel driveline popped out, the wheel steered out as a result and the driver could never have saved it… It wasn’t driver fault this time.DBF5F374-7D83-48B5-A146-043742E03432.jpegIMG_2905.MP4

    It is my understanding that this is currently just a theory.

    The other theory is that the driver switched the manettino to ESC OFF and since it seems to have been a new car with new tires...well...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Did you click on the movie I posted?


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


     
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