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    End of Bangle at BMW?

    There are rumours coming from inside BMW that say, that Chris Bangle will leave the company in the end of this year, after the Bangle-designed 1-series will have made its debut.
    It's said that Bangle has lost the backing of the BMW management, after his controversial design was criticized so much by press and customers.

    regards
    sr

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    I hope Porsche won't pick him up.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:
    There are rumours coming from inside BMW that say, that Chris Bangle will leave the company in the end of this year, after the Bangle-designed 1-series will have made its debut.
    It's said that Bangle has lost the backing of the BMW management, after his controversial design was criticized so much by press and customers.





    Where did you hear this if you don't mind my asking?

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    In Antwort auf:
    AMGeater said:Where did you hear this if you don't mind my asking?



    I don't mind at all .

    I read it in a car page, they said something from "insiders" and also mentioned Auto Express (UK?).

    best
    sr

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    In Antwort auf:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    I hope Porsche won't pick him up.




    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    well well well. interesting rumour. the only thing really good about BMW's new design was that BMW backed it up and the customer did not get the impression that BMW is sceptical about it. BMW is self confident, so the car must be nice looking. kind that way.

    if bangle will be abandoned this would change, they will face some major problems IMO. not on long term, though.

    i personally even thought that, after all, the banglism finally works out. the 6's design earned some positive comments in the press, so did the Z4 and (at least sometimes) the 5. no discussion about the 7, though.

    although new beemers are far from beautiful, they look modern. place a merc E class next to a 5 series and it looks dated. maybe more elegant, but dated.

    what i never liked about the new BM cars: they look american. e.g. the 645Ci cabrio -- it's not an european GT, it's an american GT. don't get me wrong, i have nothing against US design -- but not for a car company with strong european roots and successful because of building sleak, sporty cars in the past. IMO lexus does it better.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:

    what i never liked about the new BM cars: they look american. e.g. the 645Ci cabrio -- it's not an european GT, it's an american GT. don't get me wrong, i have nothing against US design -- but not for a car company with strong european roots and successful because of building sleak, sporty cars in the past. IMO lexus does it better.



    This is exactly what the whole bmw design problem is about: It looks too american. Think about the late 80's with the gorgeous Z1 7series (e32) etc. they all had this italian flair combined with german solidness in their progressive design.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    In Antwort auf:
    WF said:
    This is exactly what the whole bmw design problem is about: It looks too american. Think about the late 80's with the gorgeous Z1 7series (e32) etc. they all had this italian flair combined with german solidness in their progressive design.



    That's right. It seems as if BMW had only the US market in mind in the last couple of years. If they should change that now, perhaps they recognized that they did something wrong and concentrated too much on the US.

    The "old" BMW design was so great, sleek and elegant, something that only Italian or perhaps Brititsh design could achieve.
    Unfortunately that's all gone now, nothing is left and that's a shame.

    IMO we should praise the Lord if Bangle goes and BMW changes its design philosophy.

    best
    sr

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:
    That's right. It seems as if BMW had only the US market in mind in the last couple of years. If they should change that now, perhaps they recognized that they did something wrong and concentrated too much on the US.

    The "old" BMW design was so great, sleek and elegant, something that only Italian or perhaps Brititsh design could achieve.
    Unfortunately that's all gone now, nothing is left and that's a shame.




    What exactly would you suggest are the hallmarks of "American" design? NOT trying to start a flamewar just genuinely interested in hearing a European answer to that question. I have some ideas of my own I'll hold onto until hearing others respond

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Im sorry, but I really don't see the connection between BMW's design and American car design? If you are talking about the fact that a lot of the new BMW's have large proportions and what not, then I do see that connection with the American car.

    The new 6 looks a lot like the original in a more modern and exaggerated form. If you spend time looking at the two you will see with the exception of the sloping rear and boat like front end(the old 6), the new 6's proportions are spot on with the original. The roof line is a perfect modern interpratation of the original's.

    Now I hear what everyone says about the new 5 looking like a Pontiac, and I do see the connection, but only in the headlight design. And please tell me who started the kidney grill first between Pontiac and BMW!?

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    From what I've seen in Houston, it's mostly long straight wide roads and strict laws.
    I think what Zzoba means when he says that the 6 is more US market orientated, is they have prioritise on the more powerful comfy GT side than the nimble sports car. At least that's what I think.
    From my own experience, track aside, it's easier to enjoy a sports car in the old continent than Texas. I said Texas not the US, you've noticed bc my american driving experience only limits itself to Texas.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    From what I've seen in Houston, it's mostly long straight wide roads and strict laws.
    I think what Zzoba means when he says that the 6 is more US market orientated, is they have prioritise on the more powerful comfy GT side than the nimble sports car. At least that's what I think.
    From my own experience, track aside, it's easier to enjoy a sports car in the old continent than Texas. I said Texas not the US, you've noticed bc my american driving experience only limits itself to Texas.



    We have plenty of twisty mountain roads, you just need to know where to find them!

    And visiting one time in one state doesn't mean our roads are all that way. Yes we have straight roads, crowded roads, large roads, small roads, but so do many countries.

    Funny how some Europeans view our country in such a stereotype. Sad actually.

    Take a look at this road and tell me if it's your style...


    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Now that's what I'm talking about!
    Nice car!
    I did completely stereotype I admit, but this is also the main perception we get here in Europe, sad I agree, but true.
    Now I remember, three years ago, I did the glacier route, ok it's in Canada between BC and ALberta but what a road, unfortunately, it was winter and it was a Ford Excursion

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Here is the full news story from Autoexpress:

    Bangle On Way Out

    It looks as though the controversial relationship between BMW and its chief designer, Chris Bangle, could be coming to the end of the road, Auto Express can exclusively reveal.

    While the flamboyant stylist's radical remake of the German company's range has divided opinion across the car world, BMW has remained fiercely loyal to him. Now, however, there are rumours that the American, whom we interviewed exclusively back in issue 773, will step down from the hot seat in less than a year's time.

    According to our source at BMW HQ in Munich, word has it that Bangle will stay for the global launch of the 1-Series this autumn, before declaring that his daring brand rethink is complete and that the time has come for a new design boss to take over.

    Bangle has headed up BMW's styling department for more than a decade. In that time, he's not only been responsible for the reworking of the 3, 5 and 7-Series, but he has also overseen the creation of the X5 and X3 off-roaders, the forthcoming VW Golf rival - the 1-Series - and the 6-Series coupé and cabrio, the latter officially unveiled at the Detroit Motor Show. On top of that, an all-new 3-Series is currently under development and expected to hit the streets in 2005.

    The fact that Bangle's far-reaching overhaul of BMW's family identity is now nearly complete is not the only sign that the American's influence in the boardroom is slipping. Our spies have told us that the re-engineered and facelifted X5 was originally destined to sport a new nose with radically angled headlamps, not unlike those fitted to the new 5-Series. One insider said he saw the finished model two years ago, but by the time the car was unveiled at last September's Frankfurt Motor Show, the adventurous look had been mysteriously dropped in favour of a more conservative style. This suggested that some in the BMW hierarchy aren't happy.

    Now, a revamped 7-Series has reportedly suffered the same fate. The car was expected to adopt new headlamps and a revised tail. And even though a prototype was seen running last spring, the model has yet to be launched. Hilton Holloway



    T

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    In Antwort auf:
    kfractal said:
    What exactly would you suggest are the hallmarks of "American" design? NOT trying to start a flamewar just genuinely interested in hearing a European answer to that question. I have some ideas of my own I'll hold onto until hearing others respond



    I said that BMW has concentrated too much on the American market, I didn't say anything about American design. Talking about THE American design is difficult to impossible, as it is very inhomogen.
    What I meant is, BMW was known for building sleek and elegant cars, with a touch of Italian grace or British elegance, not as bulky and heavy as its main competitor, the MB S-class. To me (and many others) it just looked beautiful.
    Today, BMW design is totally different, but bulky, heavy and ugly itself, having nothing in common with the old design.
    Moreover I'm not satisfied with the new BMW interior design. Giving up the driver orientated cockpit for that "Bauhaus"-style is a sin. And I don't see the advantage of an idrive at all. But that's just my opinion, I would always prefer a simple and traditional layout to that new electronic gimmicks, BMW is obviously so proud of. Best example is the 612 Scaglietti: has anyone seen a better interior?

    You can say whatever you want, but I always I prefered the design of the Jaguar XJ to all the German competitors (except the old 7), today I prefer the XJ and a Maserati Quattroporte to anything else and meanwhile I even prefer the design of S-class and the A8 to that of the new 7.
    BTW, talking about American design, does anyone like that of a Cadillac STS?

    @AMGeater: I'm sorry, but I really don't see any connection between BMW's design of the old and the new 6!

    best
    sr

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    From what I've seen in Houston, it's mostly long straight wide roads and strict laws. From my own experience, track aside, it's easier to enjoy a sports car in the old continent than Texas. I said Texas not the US, you've noticed bc my american driving experience only limits itself to Texas.



    Fanch, depends where you are in Texas. Head west past Austin and you have a world of country roads, lightly patrolled, with little traffic, that are very fun to drive and that go for miles and miles and miles.

    Even in a BMW!

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Thanks for the tip man.
    Lat time, I only went as far west as Austin, being based in Houston.
    They'll be other trips though.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Next trip, save time to drive west from Austin, out through the Hill Country, to Big Bend National Park in the high desert. It's the true west and great fun on the roads.

    Kind of like Scotland, in that you feel you're at the beginning of where the wilderness begins.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:

    What exactly would you suggest are the hallmarks of "American" design? NOT trying to start a flamewar just genuinely interested in hearing a European answer to that question. I have some ideas of my own I'll hold onto until hearing others respond



    It's not about what characterises "American design" it's more about focussing on american taste/ market by BMW. Their cars got too bulbous and fat on the outside with cheap plastics and way too many gadgets inside. I cannot really describe it but look at Maserati and their new Quattroporte( Audi as well) that's what I call an ellegant design. Don't get me wrong I like the US and it's people.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Audi is tha master of clean, classic German design.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    I like the Z4 and I like the new 5 series (really, I think it is a highly interesting design).
    I hate the new 8 series because it looks too big and the rear looks weird. Tonight I saw a 8 series Cab prototype on the Autobahn A8 (license plate M-XY ....) without any camoflage and at first look, I thought this is a 7 series with a soft top.
    I don't like the 7 series too much because it looks too bulky (reminds me of the old S-class, before the current model).
    I don't like the new X3 because it looks like a cheap X5.
    Conclusion: Bangle shouldn't go but he definetely should be kept under control.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    You mean "6 series", right?

    Greg A

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    The 6 doesn't bother me to much. I like it a lot. Im not all that pleased with the new 5's design, the rear looks really funny when viewed from the side profile and the front 1/3 quarter. But I am sure that after the E60 M5 gets here, all will be forgiven.

    l'd really like to see an original, clean, and simple design like the E46 3er.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:
    teflon said:
    You mean "6 series", right?

    Greg A



    Of course... ...too many numbers today, came home late from a bookkeeping training seminar which lasted the whole day (or maybe I'm just getting old ).

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Well the 5-series is probably Bangles best effort, especially the M5 will look the business from what I've seen yet. But the interior is rubbish and so are the rest of bmw latest products
    designwise. Exit mr.B for me.

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    In Antwort auf:
    WF said:
    It's not about what characterises "American design" it's more about focussing on american taste/ market by BMW. Their cars got too bulbous and fat on the outside with cheap plastics and way too many gadgets inside. I cannot really describe it but look at Maserati and their new Quattroporte( Audi as well) that's what I call an ellegant design. Don't get me wrong I like the US and it's people.



    Well said! Exactly what I'm thinking!

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Finally found the right word for the wrong design direction;
    It's too ostentatious for most of the new models(except 5)
    prefer more restrained (but not conservative) looks.
    Now what are we talking about.. just drive! or do they read
    this board at BMW HQ..

    Re: End of Bangle at BMW?

    Quote:
    WF said:
    Quote:

    What exactly would you suggest are the hallmarks of "American" design? NOT trying to start a flamewar just genuinely interested in hearing a European answer to that question. I have some ideas of my own I'll hold onto until hearing others respond



    It's not about what characterises "American design" it's more about focussing on american taste/ market by BMW. Their cars got too bulbous and fat on the outside with cheap plastics and way too many gadgets inside. I cannot really describe it but look at Maserati and their new Quattroporte( Audi as well) that's what I call an ellegant design. Don't get me wrong I like the US and it's people.



    The thing which I think embodies "American" culture more than anything is that we too often focus more on making $ than on making a righteous product... building the car is secondary to turning a profit.

    When you are most concerned about profit it will show. Just look at the next Mustang's rear suspension as an example of what I mean.

    Not quite...

    Official news.
    Chris Bangle has been promoted by BMW and is now the Group design director.
    He is replaced by Adrian Van Hooydonk who is responsible for most of the recent BMWs already.
    BMW is doing better than ever.
    Especially in the US. 7 not that successful in Europe, best luxury sedan in the US by far.
    Best year for BMW in 03 ever. Ahead of Merc in the US in the luxury cars segment.

    Re: Not quite...

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Official news.
    Chris Bangle has been promoted by BMW and is now the Group design director.




    Does this promotion mean he gets an office nearer the main exit?

    fritz

     
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