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    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Hi John,

    Its not a first and last warnig shot, DavidSF in this case has been warned by me before on this very subject in previous times and now RC is giving him a last warning because he continues regardless. We would all prefer the members to modify they behaviour rather than being forced to ban them, so them member will know before that if they are crossing the line and be given a chance to change (we are all human), but if they continue, they will be banned in favour of maintaining the friendly enviroment that characterizes this forum.

    Sometimes the moderators have to call for order in general in a post asking for the posters to please reconduct the thread, but unless you are mentioned directly that is no biggie, its just a call for cooperation before things get out of hand.

    What 'm trying to say is that we barely have to ban anybody here (except for spammer and such) in Rennteam, especially regular posters that are well integrated into the comunity, and that before that ever happens you will not only know about it but also be given the benefit of the doubt, since we all can have a bad day, or may be new to forums, or may come from a nother forum were flaming is allowed, etc, etc. But is the member refuses to change no matter how many warnings he has been given, it will be done in a blink of an eye for all our benefit. This may be RC's first and last warning to DavidSF, but RC knows I have already warned DavidSF before several times,thast why its not only the first but also last in this case.



    I'm not trying to be funny but how do you guys ban people?Is it by blocking their logins ? can't they create logins in another name .Just asking

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    There is a fine line between trolling and expressing different opinion that the forum's mayority, and Nick knows very well hwo to walk that edge and purpously plays at that edge, still Nick has been banned temporarily before in this forum because sometimes he has been too excessive.

    But what we don't tolerate at all are members who personally attack other members, no matter who. I have had to edit your posts in the past and clearly warned you about it, next time you will recieve no warning, and I don't think you'd want Nick to be the cause of you being banned on top of it, right?



    Point taken and I will stop it with the personal attacks. I didn't know Nick was banned before. You'd think he would've learned by now, but I'm not surprised he hasn't. It's just very frustrating because he's been a troll for the several years I've been a member and I didn't think you guys were doing anything about it so I've sort of taken that responsibility in my own hands. Now that I know you guys are trying to stop Nick too I will stop it with the personal attacks. Not that this is acceptable, but it was another tactic I was trying to get him to stop. BTW, many messageboards have a 'report this post' link to report posts to the moderators. You guys should have such a link so people can report Nick's troll posts. Thank you.

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:BTW, many messageboards have a 'report this post' link to report posts to the moderators. You guys should have such a link so people can report Nick's troll posts. Thank you.



    Hi david,

    There is a 'report to moderator' button. If you look at the bottom of the posts, it says "post extras", there you see an icon of a patchment with a crossed circle over it, thats the link to click to report a post, hover the mouse over it and you will see it will display a text label that confirms it.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    I personally think there should be an ejection button for this type of poster...if 75% of the readers push the ejection button..then off the board they go, with a two week cooling period before they can sign in again.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    LoranTw said:
    I personally think there should be an ejection button for this type of poster...if 75% of the readers push the ejection button..then off the board they go, with a two week cooling period before they can sign in again.



    How about a trap door to feed them to the sharks?

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    There is a fine line between trolling and expressing different opinion that the forum's mayority, and Nick knows very well hwo to walk that edge and purpously plays at that edge, still Nick has been banned temporarily before in this forum because sometimes he has been too excessive.

    But what we don't tolerate at all are members who personally attack other members, no matter who. I have had to edit your posts in the past and clearly warned you about it, next time you will recieve no warning, and I don't think you'd want Nick to be the cause of you being banned on top of it, right?



    Point taken and I will stop it with the personal attacks. I didn't know Nick was banned before. You'd think he would've learned by now, but I'm not surprised he hasn't. It's just very frustrating because he's been a troll for the several years I've been a member and I didn't think you guys were doing anything about it so I've sort of taken that responsibility in my own hands. Now that I know you guys are trying to stop Nick too I will stop it with the personal attacks. Not that this is acceptable, but it was another tactic I was trying to get him to stop. BTW, many messageboards have a 'report this post' link to report posts to the moderators. You guys should have such a link so people can report Nick's troll posts. Thank you.

    David




    David usually I ignore you because you are a nonentity not really having anything to say other than attacking me or someone else. However, given you feel somehow you are succeeding in trying to "stop me" I must respond.

    NO One has warned me about my posts. I am free to post whatever I like, when I like and as often as I like. Also, the fact that you and a couple of other posters cannot handle the truth only makes me happier and inclined to post more.

    While it is true many disagree with me, most take the high ground and try to make a case against what I have to say. Sadly, you don't know how.

    Now that you have promised to not get personal, it leaves you with nothing to say and only validates your non entity status. I laugh with considerable satisfaction. :


    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Nick,what you seem to be missing here is most of us thoroughly enjoy our cars. We aren't inclined to run down other peoples choices to ehance our own satisfaction in our personal selection. Why you insist upon constantly searching for the underbelly of everyones joy is simply beyond me. Having said that I would prefer an environment where we can edify our enjoyment. Not to call into question the very things that make for our enjoyment. Cars are seldom considered investment grade securities...I for one didn't puchase the tt to revell in slow depreciation. Frankly I couldn't care less about that. I suspect most here enjoy the discusion about how to enhance the enjoyment of what is already a great line of automobiles. I guess my question to you, in light of your past performance...Why are you here?. From what I can tell it isn't to make me happier to be on this forum with colleagues that love porsches. You can say whatever you want, but if I had it my way...you'd be sitting in the bleechers for two weeks. In case you were wondering..thats was not a personal attack.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Loran, my complaints have to do with Porsche the company and not the car. I have always considered it the best performance car for the money. True I do not like mass produced look alike models and so indicate.

    However what I don't understand is why anyone would loss enjoyment of their car because someone else doesn't like the company who produces it or even if they don't like the car itself. If a car magazine in its review stated that the car you own wasn't to their liking would you lose enjoyment of it because of their criticism?

    You can bash Ferrari from now to eternity and it would not in the least affect the enjoyment of my 430.

    I suppose if owners feel they cannot read anything bad about their car then I see your point. But if that is the case, then there should be no negative posts regarding Porsche cars on this site. If that is what owners want and the rule is adopted that there will be no unfavorable statements regarding Porsche cars or company, I will comply.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    There is a fine line between trolling and expressing different opinion that the forum's mayority, and Nick knows very well hwo to walk that edge and purpously plays at that edge, still Nick has been banned temporarily before in this forum because sometimes he has been too excessive.

    But what we don't tolerate at all are members who personally attack other members, no matter who. I have had to edit your posts in the past and clearly warned you about it, next time you will recieve no warning, and I don't think you'd want Nick to be the cause of you being banned on top of it, right?



    Point taken and I will stop it with the personal attacks. I didn't know Nick was banned before. You'd think he would've learned by now, but I'm not surprised he hasn't. It's just very frustrating because he's been a troll for the several years I've been a member and I didn't think you guys were doing anything about it so I've sort of taken that responsibility in my own hands. Now that I know you guys are trying to stop Nick too I will stop it with the personal attacks. Not that this is acceptable, but it was another tactic I was trying to get him to stop. BTW, many messageboards have a 'report this post' link to report posts to the moderators. You guys should have such a link so people can report Nick's troll posts. Thank you.

    David




    David usually I ignore you because you are a nonentity not really having anything to say other than attacking me or someone else. However, given you feel somehow you are succeeding in trying to "stop me" I must respond.

    NO One has warned me about my posts. I am free to post whatever I like, when I like and as often as I like. Also, the fact that you and a couple of other posters cannot handle the truth only makes me happier and inclined to post more.

    While it is true many disagree with me, most take the high ground and try to make a case against what I have to say. Sadly, you don't know how.

    Now that you have promised to not get personal, it leaves you with nothing to say and only validates your non entity status. I laugh with considerable satisfaction. :





    More proof Nick is a troll.
    And despite what you say, Carlos has said you've been banned before. So keep posting your troll posts and give us more ammunition to have you banned again. I personally welcome the challenge, and I will be following your posts closely.

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    LoranTw said:
    Nick,what you seem to be missing here is most of us thoroughly enjoy our cars. We aren't inclined to run down other peoples choices to ehance our own satisfaction in our personal selection. Why you insist upon constantly searching for the underbelly of everyones joy is simply beyond me. Having said that I would prefer an environment where we can edify our enjoyment. Not to call into question the very things that make for our enjoyment. Cars are seldom considered investment grade securities...I for one didn't puchase the tt to revell in slow depreciation. Frankly I couldn't care less about that. I suspect most here enjoy the discusion about how to enhance the enjoyment of what is already a great line of automobiles. I guess my question to you, in light of your past performance...Why are you here?. From what I can tell it isn't to make me happier to be on this forum with colleagues that love porsches. You can say whatever you want, but if I had it my way...you'd be sitting in the bleechers for two weeks. In case you were wondering..thats was not a personal attack.



    Loran it's useless. I've tried everything but haven't been able to cure him. I have made progress though. He used to make a lot more troll posts a year ago before I began my work. Trolls have certain psychological problems and they don't think like normal people. All we can do is alert the moderators and hopefully the troll will be banned (again). I'm saying this to all people who discover Nick's troll posts. This does work. If the mods get enough complaints a user will be banned. Nick has been before.

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Loran, my complaints have to do with Porsche the company and not the car. I have always considered it the best performance car for the money. True I do not like mass produced look alike models and so indicate.

    However what I don't understand is why anyone would loss enjoyment of their car because someone else doesn't like the company who produces it or even if they don't like the car itself. If a car magazine in its review stated that the car you own wasn't to their liking would you lose enjoyment of it because of their criticism?

    You can bash Ferrari from now to eternity and it would not in the least affect the enjoyment of my 430.

    I suppose if owners feel they cannot read anything bad about their car then I see your point. But if that is the case, then there should be no negative posts regarding Porsche cars on this site. If that is what owners want and the rule is adopted that there will be no unfavorable statements regarding Porsche cars or company, I will comply.



    Nick, I understand where you are coming from, but it seems you sometimes hit below the belt which could be unacceptable to some. I enjoy your posts and I believe without you, this board will be a bit boring. Everybody has a right to express their views about cars and how they feel about them as far that they don't cross the line of personal attacks.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Loran, my complaints have to do with Porsche the company and not the car. I have always considered it the best performance car for the money. True I do not like mass produced look alike models and so indicate.

    However what I don't understand is why anyone would loss enjoyment of their car because someone else doesn't like the company who produces it or even if they don't like the car itself. If a car magazine in its review stated that the car you own wasn't to their liking would you lose enjoyment of it because of their criticism?

    You can bash Ferrari from now to eternity and it would not in the least affect the enjoyment of my 430.

    I suppose if owners feel they cannot read anything bad about their car then I see your point. But if that is the case, then there should be no negative posts regarding Porsche cars on this site. If that is what owners want and the rule is adopted that there will be no unfavorable statements regarding Porsche cars or company, I will comply.


    Nick, I don't think your comments cause me to lose enjoyment in my car. However sometimes it turns me off on the board. I suspect most here recognize that these cars are depreciable assets...we don't need to be reminded of that on an ongoing basis. Surely we can find something more engaging to chat about. I would be very happy if the latest and greatest of anything maintained it's value..but they don't.
    In terms of the negative comments about porsche cars...it's like my grandmother use to say, "It's not what you say it's how you say it" and if I can add an element to her words...The number of times you have to say it. Your point was made 18 months ago..is there an echo in this room..

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said: NO One has warned me about my posts.



    You have been warned plenty of times in the past when your posts have crossed the line from freedom of expression to trolling, to the point that you have been banned temporarily in the past, so don't play saint either.

    Now, out of respect for your fellow members who don't want to read this back and fourth between you two, I would ask you two to avoid each other as much as posible, or at least make those replis strickly Porsche related and abstrac form any personal references. Thank you and lets get back to sportcars.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said: NO One has warned me about my posts.



    You have been warned plenty of times in the past when your posts have crossed the line from freedom of expression to trolling, to the point that you have been banned temporarily in the past, so don't play saint either.

    Now, out of respect for your fellow members who don't want to read this back and fourth between you two, I would ask you two to avoid each other as much as posible, or at least make those replis strickly Porsche related and abstrac form any personal references. Thank you and lets get back to sportcars.



    Carlos, get your facts straight. With that, I will end my discussion.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, get your facts straight.



    Nick, you really are funny!

    I can just imagine you trying to keep a straight face when you, of all people, wrote that statement.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, get your facts straight.



    Nick, you really are funny!

    I can just imagine you trying to keep a straight face when you, of all people, wrote that statement.





    Nick, you have been banned in the past, or should I say denied access to all other forums, with the exception of the Ferrari board - by RC himself. If that's what you meant with getting facts straight, then you were absolutely correct .

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:Carlos, get your facts straight. With that, I will end my discussion.



    What discussion? there is nothing to discuss:

    Were you or were you not banned by RC from the forum for a period of time? carefull, shall I present whitnesses?

    Were you or were you not warned about your inflamatory posts previous to that banning by RC? didn't do much good anyway, you still ended up banned anyway

    ... I rest my case. "Get your facts straight" too funny

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, get your facts straight.



    Nick, you really are funny!

    I can just imagine you trying to keep a straight face when you, of all people, wrote that statement.




    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Carlos, since the incident years ago, I have no been warned by anyone for my posts. When you start lumping me in with the likes of DavidSF then I am truly offended.

    I have always tried to keep the discussion car related and civil. No doubt many people disagree with me but it always has been cordial, intelligent and fun between the various members. It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.

    Dr. Phil attacked me because I considered his beloved Porsche as a car something other than luxury based on the car ranking resale values. For that he ran a poll to get me banned.

    I am not the problem. Some Porsche owners cannot stand any unfavorable comments about their car and I am viciously attacked. They have caused this board which for years (of which I have been a member of during that time) has been considered the best because of the lack of hostility and the civil nature of the posts now becoming much like some of the others.

    Personally attack individuals, censorship or banishment because they do not like what someone has to say is not the way this board should go. Sad, very sad.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Nick, it's time for you to take the 'high road'

    Arguing with a mod is another way to get you banned again.

    You may not see it that way but you are THE problem in the Porsche board, I find your posts mildly amusing most of the time but sometimes it gets quite annoying.

    Since the Porsche board members do not appreciate your posts, why not post them in the Ferrari boards, I am sure they like you more over there, seriously, the Ferrari board members may be more accommodating to your comments.

    Lastly, you could always ask for a nberry board where you can post all you want in there and others can respond to you there as to not clutter up the rest of the forums.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, since the incident years ago, I have no been warned by anyone for my posts. When you start lumping me in with the likes of DavidSF then I am truly offended.

    I have always tried to keep the discussion car related and civil. No doubt many people disagree with me but it always has been cordial, intelligent and fun between the various members. It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.

    Dr. Phil attacked me because I considered his beloved Porsche as a car something other than luxury based on the car ranking resale values. For that he ran a poll to get me banned.

    I am not the problem. Some Porsche owners cannot stand any unfavorable comments about their car and I am viciously attacked. They have caused this board which for years (of which I have been a member of during that time) has been considered the best because of the lack of hostility and the civil nature of the posts now becoming much like some of the others.

    Personally attack individuals, censorship or banishment because they do not like what someone has to say is not the way this board should go. Sad, very sad.





    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Back to resale rankings and the middle class. After some study I have learned that I was wrong to oppose Nicks theory. But Nick missed the mark also.

    In 1959 Nelson D Rockefeller - then worth about $200 million said that middle class people made $50,000 a year.

    Last month Hillary Clinton said that a income of $250,000
    a year was "middle class"

    Using their analysis, and income/ability to purchase, Ferrari also appears to be a middle class trinket.

    Maybe a Veyron owner here should resolve this crisis of who/what is middle class.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, since the incident years ago, I have no been warned by anyone for my posts. When you start lumping me in with the likes of DavidSF then I am truly offended.

    I have always tried to keep the discussion car related and civil. No doubt many people disagree with me but it always has been cordial, intelligent and fun between the various members. It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.

    Dr. Phil attacked me because I considered his beloved Porsche as a car something other than luxury based on the car ranking resale values. For that he ran a poll to get me banned.

    I am not the problem. Some Porsche owners cannot stand any unfavorable comments about their car and I am viciously attacked. They have caused this board which for years (of which I have been a member of during that time) has been considered the best because of the lack of hostility and the civil nature of the posts now becoming much like some of the others.

    Personally attack individuals, censorship or banishment because they do not like what someone has to say is not the way this board should go. Sad, very sad.



    I agree that the main problem is that quite some RENNTEAM members can't stand criticizing Porsche. They feel personally offended and react accordingly.
    Of course nberry is sometimes polemic, but not personal and posting with a tongue in cheek IMHO.

    To brand nberry as a troll or run polls about banning is ridiculous. Ignore him if you like, but open discussions beyond colored stitching options and backslapping is what RENNTEAM is about IMHO.

    And I'm under the impression that nberry likes Porsche a lot, or used to. But he is disappointed with PAG's development in recent years. So he's not a shareholder, probably -- but a car lover.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, since the incident years ago, I have no been warned by anyone for my posts. When you start lumping me in with the likes of DavidSF then I am truly offended.

    I have always tried to keep the discussion car related and civil. No doubt many people disagree with me but it always has been cordial, intelligent and fun between the various members. It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.

    Dr. Phil attacked me because I considered his beloved Porsche as a car something other than luxury based on the car ranking resale values. For that he ran a poll to get me banned.

    I am not the problem. Some Porsche owners cannot stand any unfavorable comments about their car and I am viciously attacked. They have caused this board which for years (of which I have been a member of during that time) has been considered the best because of the lack of hostility and the civil nature of the posts now becoming much like some of the others.

    Personally attack individuals, censorship or banishment because they do not like what someone has to say is not the way this board should go. Sad, very sad.




    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.



    And I will be the first one to do so again Nick, you know that, there is no excuse for personal attacks towards you or anybody else. But you weren't completely loyal to the truth when you played the completely innocent card. "Since that incident" is correct but that is not what you said innitially, and denied again the second time.

    You know that its not what you write but "how" you write and express yourself that can be very provoking to readers, and you play with words to imply something without saying it outloud and be called for it. From the reader's perspective some will be insulted, some will simply be put off from reading, and some grab the gauntlet and throw it back at you with your same medicine or worse.

    Also your mentality is so far of from the typical 911 driver I know off (lets face it, you are more of a poseur that an enthusiast sportdriver), that its hard to put your words in proper persepective and may lead to further misunderstandings among readers.

    My honest and humble suggestion is, say what ever you want to say, a critical opinion is always good to hear and keeps everyone with a more objective view, Porsche should not sleep on their laurels from the success they enjoy so that we can enjoy their great sportcars in the future as well. So that is welcomed.

    BUT take into account the crowd you are speaking to and express yourself accordingly to better transmit your message and not just provoke the crowd, because sometimes it just seems your only intent is not to transmit a critical opinion but rather to provoke the crowd and get a kick out of it while hidding behind the critic roll. Wether you see it that way or not, it doesn't matter, because that is how it seems to the readers and what matters.

    If I write a post in the Ferrari section I will take that into account and treat the readers with respect, and speak respecting their preferences, if I want to express an opinion, wether critical or not, I will try to do it in a neutral and down to earth way, I will not be wasting my precious time in sarcastic and and inflamatory statements about everything I don't like about Ferrari (Ferrari is just an example because its the other car make that has a section on this board).

    Just my two cents nick.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, since the incident years ago, I have no been warned by anyone for my posts. When you start lumping me in with the likes of DavidSF then I am truly offended.

    I have always tried to keep the discussion car related and civil. No doubt many people disagree with me but it always has been cordial, intelligent and fun between the various members. It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.

    Dr. Phil attacked me because I considered his beloved Porsche as a car something other than luxury based on the car ranking resale values. For that he ran a poll to get me banned.

    I am not the problem. Some Porsche owners cannot stand any unfavorable comments about their car and I am viciously attacked. They have caused this board which for years (of which I have been a member of during that time) has been considered the best because of the lack of hostility and the civil nature of the posts now becoming much like some of the others.

    Personally attack individuals, censorship or banishment because they do not like what someone has to say is not the way this board should go. Sad, very sad.



    I agree that the main problem is that quite some RENNTEAM members can't stand criticizing Porsche. They feel personally offended and react accordingly.
    Of course nberry is sometimes polemic, but not personal and posting with a tongue in cheek IMHO.

    To brand nberry as a troll or run polls about banning is ridiculous. Ignore him if you like, but open discussions beyond colored stitching options and backslapping is what RENNTEAM is about IMHO.

    And I'm under the impression that nberry likes Porsche a lot, or used to. But he is disappointed with PAG's development in recent years. So he's not a shareholder, probably -- but a car lover.



    ZZboba, you know me very well.

    Carlos, I did not want to get into the incident but my comment regarding getting facts straight was the impression you conveyed was that I had recently repeatedly been warned which was not the case.

    Regarding me being a poseur, I suspect I have driven and track more high perf. cars than most of the posters. I have often stated my driving skills are irrelevant. I try not to boast about anything I do. Action is what I judge myself on, not words.

    I acknowledge there are times I post to stimulate discussion. I never post to create hostility or acrimony. It is done in good fun with the goal that possibly Porsche will take notice and see some validity to what is being debated. I am convinced that Porsche has recognized its over production errors and is taking action to "right the ship".

    Personally, I would prefer to buy a Porsche because what I am witnessing with Ferrari is of concern to me. They are becoming too elitist and no matter what you think you know about me, I am not an elitist. My problems with Porsche remain. However, it is my understanding that Porsche has some goodies up its sleeve which may interest me. I want with anxious anticipation.

    Finally, we should never allow a few disgruntled individuals dictate the agenda for all of us. My posts stimulate discussion and often many members give it back to me in spades. When it is done and over, we all have learned more about the cars we love and feel a camaraderie despite our differences. Unfortunately, a few will not have it that way.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, since the incident years ago, I have no been warned by anyone for my posts. When you start lumping me in with the likes of DavidSF then I am truly offended.

    I have always tried to keep the discussion car related and civil. No doubt many people disagree with me but it always has been cordial, intelligent and fun between the various members. It was only when DavidSF began to foster personal attacks when some of the others jumped in and joined the personal attack campaign. I never responded in kind. Thankfully after some time you stepped in and stopped it.

    Dr. Phil attacked me because I considered his beloved Porsche as a car something other than luxury based on the car ranking resale values. For that he ran a poll to get me banned.

    I am not the problem. Some Porsche owners cannot stand any unfavorable comments about their car and I am viciously attacked. They have caused this board which for years (of which I have been a member of during that time) has been considered the best because of the lack of hostility and the civil nature of the posts now becoming much like some of the others.

    Personally attack individuals, censorship or banishment because they do not like what someone has to say is not the way this board should go. Sad, very sad.



    I agree that the main problem is that quite some RENNTEAM members can't stand criticizing Porsche. They feel personally offended and react accordingly.
    Of course nberry is sometimes polemic, but not personal and posting with a tongue in cheek IMHO.

    To brand nberry as a troll or run polls about banning is ridiculous. Ignore him if you like, but open discussions beyond colored stitching options and backslapping is what RENNTEAM is about IMHO.

    And I'm under the impression that nberry likes Porsche a lot, or used to. But he is disappointed with PAG's development in recent years. So he's not a shareholder, probably -- but a car lover.



    ZZboba, you know me very well.

    Carlos, I did not want to get into the incident but my comment regarding getting facts straight was the impression you conveyed was that I had recently repeatedly been warned which was not the case.

    Regarding me being a poseur, I suspect I have driven and track more high perf. cars than most of the posters. I have often stated my driving skills are irrelevant. I try not to boast about anything I do. Action is what I judge myself on, not words.

    I acknowledge there are times I post to stimulate discussion. I never post to create hostility or acrimony. It is done in good fun with the goal that possibly Porsche will take notice and see some validity to what is being debated. I am convinced that Porsche has recognized its over production errors and is taking action to "right the ship".

    Personally, I would prefer to buy a Porsche because what I am witnessing with Ferrari is of concern to me. They are becoming too elitist and no matter what you think you know about me, I am not an elitist. My problems with Porsche remain. However, it is my understanding that Porsche has some goodies up its sleeve which may interest me. I want with anxious anticipation.

    Finally, we should never allow a few disgruntled individuals dictate the agenda for all of us. My posts stimulate discussion and often many members give it back to me in spades. When it is done and over, we all have learned more about the cars we love and feel a camaraderie despite our differences. Unfortunately, a few will not have it that way.



    Nick, you disliking Porsche for its corporate policies or the number of cars on the road is perfectly fine - most of us think this way. It's the way you convey your thoughts that is quite insulting to many people. Imagine dreaming about a car since you were a kid and when you finally buy it, someone goes out of his way to educate you about why your car sucks and is good only for the middle class.

    Carlos, nicely put.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Regarding me being a poseur, I suspect I have driven and track more high perf. cars than most of the posters. I have often stated my driving skills are irrelevant. I try not to boast about anything I do. Action is what I judge myself on, not words.

    I acknowledge there are times I post to stimulate discussion. I never post to create hostility or acrimony. It is done in good fun with the goal that possibly Porsche will take notice and see some validity to what is being debated. I am convinced that Porsche has recognized its over production errors and is taking action to "right the ship".

    Personally, I would prefer to buy a Porsche because what I am witnessing with Ferrari is of concern to me. They are becoming too elitist and no matter what you think you know about me, I am not an elitist. My problems with Porsche remain. However, it is my understanding that Porsche has some goodies up its sleeve which may interest me. I want with anxious anticipation.

    Finally, we should never allow a few disgruntled individuals dictate the agenda for all of us. My posts stimulate discussion and often many members give it back to me in spades. When it is done and over, we all have learned more about the cars we love and feel a camaraderie despite our differences. Unfortunately, a few will not have it that way.



    Nick, if all your posts read like this one you'd have a lot fewer "virtual enemies" on rennteam and a lot more people who make a habit of really thinking things through before expressing an opinion actually agreeing with the things you write.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Regarding me being a poseur, I suspect I have driven and track more high perf. cars than most of the posters. I have often stated my driving skills are irrelevant. I try not to boast about anything I do. Action is what I judge myself on, not words.

    I acknowledge there are times I post to stimulate discussion. I never post to create hostility or acrimony. It is done in good fun with the goal that possibly Porsche will take notice and see some validity to what is being debated. I am convinced that Porsche has recognized its over production errors and is taking action to "right the ship".

    Personally, I would prefer to buy a Porsche because what I am witnessing with Ferrari is of concern to me. They are becoming too elitist and no matter what you think you know about me, I am not an elitist. My problems with Porsche remain. However, it is my understanding that Porsche has some goodies up its sleeve which may interest me. I want with anxious anticipation.

    Finally, we should never allow a few disgruntled individuals dictate the agenda for all of us. My posts stimulate discussion and often many members give it back to me in spades. When it is done and over, we all have learned more about the cars we love and feel a camaraderie despite our differences. Unfortunately, a few will not have it that way.



    Nick, if all your posts read like this one you'd have a lot fewer "virtual enemies" on rennteam and a lot more people who make a habit of really thinking things through before expressing an opinion actually agreeing with the things you write.



    Fritz, your one of the people who give it back to me in a friendly, funny and thoughtful way. If my posts somehow convey hostile/malicious intent, then I certainly agree I need to be aware of it. I will take your advice, as well as others, seriously.

    However, I refuse to and will not let Porsche off the hook.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Regarding me being a poseur, I suspect I have driven and track more high perf. cars than most of the posters. I have often stated my driving skills are irrelevant. I try not to boast about anything I do. Action is what I judge myself on, not words.

    I acknowledge there are times I post to stimulate discussion. I never post to create hostility or acrimony. It is done in good fun with the goal that possibly Porsche will take notice and see some validity to what is being debated. I am convinced that Porsche has recognized its over production errors and is taking action to "right the ship".

    Personally, I would prefer to buy a Porsche because what I am witnessing with Ferrari is of concern to me. They are becoming too elitist and no matter what you think you know about me, I am not an elitist. My problems with Porsche remain. However, it is my understanding that Porsche has some goodies up its sleeve which may interest me. I want with anxious anticipation.

    Finally, we should never allow a few disgruntled individuals dictate the agenda for all of us. My posts stimulate discussion and often many members give it back to me in spades. When it is done and over, we all have learned more about the cars we love and feel a camaraderie despite our differences. Unfortunately, a few will not have it that way.



    Nick, if all your posts read like this one you'd have a lot fewer "virtual enemies" on rennteam and a lot more people who make a habit of really thinking things through before expressing an opinion actually agreeing with the things you write.



    Fritz, your one of the people who give it back to me in a friendly, funny and thoughtful way. If my posts somehow convey hostile/malicious intent, then I certainly agree I need to be aware of it. I will take your advice, as well as others, seriously.

    However, I refuse to and will not let Porsche off the hook.



    Nick, this is what you say now in this post, but you should go back and read your posts in this thread and you will see that what got people angry was not your posts about Porsche the car company but about us Porsche drivers. You know it, so stop playing innocent and dumb. Your posts in this thread are exactly the kind of posts trolls make. It's the kind of stuff you used to do more often before I arrived. Anyone who needs proof Nick is a troll can just read your posts in this thread.

    David

    p.s. People, don't botter notifying Nick he is being hostile...it just encourages him. Instead ignore him and notify the moderators. This can be done by clicking on the third button from left (it's a circle with a diagonal line through it) next to Post Extras. With enough complaints to moderators he will be warned and banned again.

    Great info about how to deal with trolls:

    http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?boardstrolls

     
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