Crown

there are McLaren trasher and there are McLaren worshiper.....  looks funny with the above discussion of what they call it what....   

More like people that speak the truth vs blind McLaren worshiper.....................

I trash McLaren, just like I would with Porsche and Ferrari and Lambo. Just because they are the newcomers doesn't mean they will get a pass from me.

And I don't blindly believe whatever their PR printed either.

Whoopsy:

More like people that speak the truth vs blind McLaren worshiper.....................

I trash McLaren, just like I would with Porsche and Ferrari and Lambo. Just because they are the newcomers doesn't mean they will get a pass from me.

And I don't blindly believe whatever their PR printed either.

why do u hate McLaren soo much? its a really bad car experience you had with ur 12C?  Just want to know here...

The discussion is becoming pointless.

For Whoopsy, McLaren is defining series as you would define model. We could start the discussion that McLaren defines variants and models as models and uses a strange definition for model as a series. But this has nothing to do with their cars. In Germany BMW is defining the variants of a model as a series, e.g. 5-series. Mercedes uses class for it. That are only marketing words nothing else.

Someone asked where McLaren gets his customers from. I could only tell you from McLaren Stuttgart, for the sport series (540/570) that are nearly 100% new customers and from them 80% are previous Porsche owner. For the super sport series (650) it is more mixed. This information I have got from the McLaren dealer their. I have visited two McLaren events and I didn´t make any statistics but my feeling was that from the 5xx owners more then 2/3 are previous Porsche owner.

So let us calm down and discuss more and bash less. 

AM

I've been told by the sales guy in Switzerland they have only 2 P14 allocations left - so.....

I think it will be a amazing car - would take it over any Lambo or Ferrari right now - but then they come soon with their "Specials" too

I agree with Aldo as well - I was at a Mac Event with Bluelines and the audience was clearly much less flamboyant than any Lambo or Ferrari event - technically very interested knowledgable low profile People

BjoernB:

I agree with Aldo as well - I was at a Mac Event with Bluelines and the audience was clearly much less flamboyant than any Lambo or Ferrari event - technically very interested knowledgable low profile People

I have visited so much Porsche events and there are so many guys bashing on Ferrari or any other brand. On the two Mac events it was more relaxing, did have the feeling that more gentlemen are driving McLaren. The same feeling I have when visiting a Bentley event. 

AM

Adnan,

You are right. Mclaren produces excellent cars. Period.

Better then Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo/Audi? No. But, different enough. 

540C or 570S would be my prime choice design, price and performance wise. But, nearest service is 600km away from Zagreb. That is my problem. Not Mclarens since it is pretty pointless to expect dealership in Ljubljana or Zagreb any time soon. 

Btw, sve najbolje tebi i familiji u 2017!

KresoF1:

Adnan,

You are right. Mclaren produces excellent cars. Period.

Better then Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo/Audi? No. But, different enough. 

540C or 570S would be my prime choice design, price and performance wise. But, nearest service is 600km away from Zagreb. That is my problem. Not Mclarens since it is pretty pointless to expect dealership in Ljubljana or Zagreb any time soon. 

Btw, sve najbolje tebi i familiji u 2017!

Thnx! I wish you and your family all the best.

All are producing excellent cars that is the point - the difference is so much subjective and not objective.
No, you will not have soon any Mac, Lambo, Ferrari, Tesla .... dealer near you. The market is to small. 

I am su upset about this ridiculous mine is longer and better discussion. It is like sitting with short minded people in EX-YU.

AM

Whoopsy:

noone1:

Please explain to the forum why it matters what they call their different cars. Are trims lower performance than models? Are models slower than variants? It's a car. You either want one or you don't. That's all there is to it.

If we started calling tomatoes dog shit, would you think it's gross to eat a tomato all of a sudden? Would you not have bought your Huracan Spyder if they called it the Huracan convertible?

 

God help you if you can't tell the difference between models and variants.

A 911 is a model. Within that model range there is  C2, C2S, C2 convertible, Turbo, etc. 

McLaren name it a bit differently. Their 'models' consists of the sports series, the super series and the ultimate series.

Within the sports series, there is the 540, 570 variants with coupe and spyders and GT.

Within the super series, the 720S will first come in coupe form then later on spyder. 

How the hell can McLaren have 15 'models' coming by 2020?

They gonna have the kitchen series, the living room series, the toilet series, the doghouse series, etc???

Plus,strictly speaking, McLaren ever only had one 'model', everything is based off the 12C platform and can be considered variants. They all have the same engine layout and wheelbase.

Porsche's 911 is also a 'platform' strictly speaking. It ranged from the C2 all the way to GT2RS. The body in white could be different, especially in width and fender openings, with roof or without, but the wheelbase stayed the same and so is the engine location. 

And btw, yes I will not eat tomato anyway, I think it tasted like shit.

As for the Huracan, I wanted to by the open top variant, and whatever they called the variant doesn't matter, it's the topless variant. Not a different model. Giving it different name doesn't make it a different model, it's still a variant.

 

In conclusion: You defined what model, variant, and series means to you, but you never explained why anyone should care or why it should matter. They're just words. Changes nothing about whatever 15 products you'll get.

MKSGR:

The biggest difference, of course, is that there are many thousand 911 customers (new and used) whereas you have  to fight hard to find a buyer for a McLaren (new or used). This might change over the next decade of course but will require time. Today the McLaren is still a niche product.

Well it might be seen as a niche product but clearly that niche is growing well. More than 3000 cars in one year is nothing to sneeze at

" "McLaren Automotive, the British manufacturer of luxury sports and supercars, has recorded another record year of sales growth with a near-doubling of its sales volume year-over-year, selling a total of 3,286 cars in 2016 compared to 1,654 in 2015. The 99.3 per cent improvement in sales performance also follows the company’s announcement of a third consecutive year of profitability in 2015 and the production milestone of the company’s 10,000th car, all capping another highly successful and record-breaking year." "

http://www.newspress.co.uk/public/ViewPressRelease.aspx?pr=69144&pr_ref=33530

huangester:

Whoopsy:

More like people that speak the truth vs blind McLaren worshiper.....................

I trash McLaren, just like I would with Porsche and Ferrari and Lambo. Just because they are the newcomers doesn't mean they will get a pass from me.

And I don't blindly believe whatever their PR printed either.

why do u hate McLaren soo much? its a really bad car experience you had with ur 12C?  Just want to know here...

Nope, I dont hate McLaren. I loved my 12C and would like buy it back actually, more so than my Speciale. Which is why I turned down the Aston Vantage V12S 7speed and put a deposit down for a P14 instead. I think the 12C platform is amazing, the performance envelope of it is so great. no one else can touch that yet.

But I do not blindly believe McLaren's PR speak, I use my brain to process what they actually means. And I called a dog a dog instead of a horse. McLaren's PR department is so messed up, a 6 year old would do a better job. McLaren knows who I am and how I criticize, they had no problem with it, just like Porsche had no problem of me hanging the dirty laundry out. Frank and I are still friends, he had to toe the company line in public but don't mind me calling out the smoke and mirrors in private. Not sure why you guys took it so personal. 

When Frank was in town last September, first thing he told me was to get the P14, he had gotten rid of the joker face (he remembered I hated the joker face). I basically placed my order with my dealer right there right then. 

As I said, I don't have a bias towards or against any brand. I am just more rational and less emotional.

Who is Frank? 

AM

ALDO:

Who is Frank? 

Frank Stephenson, I would think...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Stephenson

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

ALDO:

Who is Frank? 

Frank Stephenson, I would think...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Stephenson

Ahhh, I thought Frank Zappa 😬

AM

Whoopsy:

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

 

 

Your forgot the Macan.

ALDO:

Ahhh, I thought Frank Zappa 😬

One of my favorites

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Why not Frank out fellow members haha

Ziggy:

Whoopsy:

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

 

 

Your forgot the Macan.

OH right!

So 5 models then

Whoopsy:

huangester:

Whoopsy:

More like people that speak the truth vs blind McLaren worshiper.....................

I trash McLaren, just like I would with Porsche and Ferrari and Lambo. Just because they are the newcomers doesn't mean they will get a pass from me.

And I don't blindly believe whatever their PR printed either.

why do u hate McLaren soo much? its a really bad car experience you had with ur 12C?  Just want to know here...

 

Nope, I dont hate McLaren. I loved my 12C and would like buy it back actually, more so than my Speciale. Which is why I turned down the Aston Vantage V12S 7speed and put a deposit down for a P14 instead. I think the 12C platform is amazing, the performance envelope of it is so great. no one else can touch that yet.

But I do not blindly believe McLaren's PR speak, I use my brain to process what they actually means. And I called a dog a dog instead of a horse. McLaren's PR department is so messed up, a 6 year old would do a better job. McLaren knows who I am and how I criticize, they had no problem with it, just like Porsche had no problem of me hanging the dirty laundry out. Frank and I are still friends, he had to toe the company line in public but don't mind me calling out the smoke and mirrors in private. Not sure why you guys took it so personal. 

When Frank was in town last September, first thing he told me was to get the P14, he had gotten rid of the joker face (he remembered I hated the joker face). I basically placed my order with my dealer right there right then. 

As I said, I don't have a bias towards or against any brand. I am just more rational and less emotional.

I had an opportunity meeting with Frank at one of their events here in Taiwan back in 2015.  I did asked him about the resale value caused by its frequent updated "versions" (u call it versions, I call it models).  He did gave me a corporate answer.... but later on he did mentioned to me in private that the new company needs to find its way through the best fitted segment for its ever tough competitive market, if the direction was not executed properly, they have to swing another direction quickly.   Personaly, I think for 12C or 650S was their tests, as I had my 650 for 2.5years, and program updates are soo frequent that I can not remember how many times I send the car back for update,  Even once they gave me a free "updated version" of new intercoolers and newly designed Cat. converter.  no cost, just replaces it without me having any issues at all.   This means they are finding their way through, and company is still small enough to respect their current customers, and take serious on each of their demands.    Getting free updates and new hardwares.... this never happens with Ferrari (don't know about Lambo).    so perhaps if you want to know why I like McLaren soo much, maybe the car gives me the satisifactions on the track timing, and perhaps its the McLaren dealership here cares, and that's what its all about buyer these super series, you want them to care about ur car.   Frankly, I also like Ferrari very much indeed, but its the image of Ferrari owners here are typically: showoff, always drives the car in the city loud, music loud, want to be seen in.  This kind of image withdraw me back from getting another one here.   So I am not what you call a fanboy of McLaren, but I believe McLaren currently has less profile image than Ferrari/Lambo owners.  so in that sense I sort of don't want McLaren to become popular or well known, otherwise it would ruins my taste.  McLaren is more about tech. not a show piece such as F12 or LPs...  frankly, the fastest track records for the street car here is 675LT.   458S comes near close, but not quite.    having said all that, just to explain why I am not every McLaren owners are blind folded fanboys, but truely enjoying the moment owning a McLaren.   I certainly hope you would have similar feelings towards ur P14 after spending time get to know the car as I do!  

I enjoyed my 12C very much too.

Here in this site, I had initially trashed the design of it, but I ended up with one anyway and I was trumping the merits of it.

The dealership experience was second to none, easily the best there ever was.

Owners. Well that's another story here where I lived. Basically every one is a reject of Ferrari, they couldn't get a 458 at list and that's why they bought a McLaren. Doesn't help that most of them 17 yr old students from China that are spending their father's money. I had the 5th car in Canada, I was the rolling billboard for them. And you guys know I drive my cars-the car was seen by many. 

What I didn't like as that they first neutered the door lock, what's wrong with the swipe? Then they changed the face to a joker face to match the P1 and renamed the car 650 without changing basically one single bolt. 

The dealer, sales manager were basically my friends and they basically lowball me on trade in stating that it's what McLaren wanted. They wish and could have and can given me more but the factory forbidden them from doing so. Which means McLaren the factory wanted to killed off the 12C to make room for the 650 at all cost. 

At that moment in time I still had my deposit for the P1. What they had published publicly is very different than what I have learned behind the scene about the P1. They stood by their PR campaign but what those guys are saying is not what the car is. Their PR department, even up to this day, might as well be living on another galaxy. 

Anyway, Vancouver is a small city, most people basically buy the same thing and that's basically the same circle of friends that I have. SO I know the educated , nice owners and I and very good friends with them, and wears know those asshole Chinese students ones. We basically stay clear of them.

As for product 'segments',  the 12C was doing really really well, there was no need to changed the 'model' to 650S. They could have called it a face lift and be done with it and no one would have cared. But many do take offence that McLaren called it a 'new model'. Only reason was that the P1 came out, people are fooled into thinking they bought the baby brother of the P1 in 650S. Which is actually true, as the P1 is basically a souped up 12C. A pity they had abandoned the elegant styling of the 12C and went with the ugly joker face. 

As for product 'segments',  the 12C was doing really really well, there was no need to changed the 'model' to 650S. They could have called it a face lift and be done with it and no one would have cared. But many do take offence that McLaren called it a 'new model'. Only reason was that the P1 came out, people are fooled into thinking they bought the baby brother of the P1 in 650S. Which is actually true, as the P1 is basically a souped up 12C. A pity they had abandoned the elegant styling of the 12C and went with the ugly joker face. 

 

Anyway, Vancouver is a small city, most people basically buy the same thing and that's basically the same circle of friends that I have. SO I know the educated , nice owners and I and very good friends with them, and wears know those asshole Chinese students ones. We basically stay clear of them.

I know for fact they even agreed its their mistake of call it 650S a different model (at the time they said they will continue making 12C).  This was a big mistake I think, and damaged a lot of 12C owners.  even their dealers here are confused and don't know what to tell their customers at the time..... However, P1's joker face will stay for a long time, as 650joker face will be out in a month or so.....   I have not yet put my deposit down for P14, just want to know if they really stepped up and made a lot of changes worth me selling my heavily depreciated car for this....

I have the same take as you on the Chinese kids who asked daddy to buy....  I tell my kids all the time, go get a job, then you can buy one....  but they are not asshole Nick, they were born in that kind of family, what can they do.....  

BjoernB:

I agree with Aldo as well - I was at a Mac Event with Bluelines and the audience was clearly much less flamboyant than any Lambo or Ferrari event - technically very interested knowledgable low profile People

+1 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Unless the implication is that the majority of McLaren owners have never owned an exotic before, it's obvious that they are composed of owners from all brands and that customer acquisition is not an issue. 

huangester:

 

I have the same take as you on the Chinese kids who asked daddy to buy....  I tell my kids all the time, go get a job, then you can buy one....  but they are not asshole Nick, they were born in that kind of family, what can they do.....  

They were not 'born' that way. A kid is a sponge, they will absorb anything that goes into them.

If they were taught to be an asshole, then they will be come an asshole. Some do change when they had extended contact with the outside world, but most are following how their parens act. 

Whoopsy:

huangester:

 

I have the same take as you on the Chinese kids who asked daddy to buy....  I tell my kids all the time, go get a job, then you can buy one....  but they are not asshole Nick, they were born in that kind of family, what can they do.....  

 

They were not 'born' that way. A kid is a sponge, they will absorb anything that goes into them.

If they were taught to be an asshole, then they will be come an asshole. Some do change when they had extended contact with the outside world, but most are following how their parents act. 

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

anyone driven or bought a 540C?

bargain if you are not silly with options. List in UK is £126k, with some sensible options, £140k on the road.

I have met one, he bought a black 540c without any special options. He was coming from 911 turbo. His was happy with his decision. He was stating that he has nearly the same performance as 570s and when taking black you don´t need the high expensive carbon parts. His car looks pretty nice. 

AM

yes, CF bits massively inflate the cost

Yeah, just depends on options. Some will be standard or maybe cheaper on the 570S. If you add a bunch back, you might as well get the 570S.