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    VW Group at Le Mans

    Here is a spy shot of the VW Le Mans prototype.....

    IMG_3299.JPG


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    😂


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    They should put that design on a wrap and put it on the prototype indecision


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Timeless


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Yes, Its all about cost savings at Weissach these days.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    indecision


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Porsche lmdh is rolled out


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    C2730C2D-BC0F-4F6C-AB81-7A3FB9D4ED8A.png


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    By the sound looks like v8


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Two more pictures, credit to 24heuresdumans instagram:

    D5F7448C-D5BA-40D1-9EFB-62D8B2354373.jpeg
    30D72984-C016-43E4-B82E-B44825A7A1F2.jpeg


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Very good analysis...Smiley

    I beg to differ in case of F1 in 2026 - I think we will see Audi AND Porsche as engine suppliers...Smiley

    But it´s  long time to 2026....

    Blueflame


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Nice post Superidol!

    I fully share your opinion. However, we have to admit that due to the fact that fia wec (except le mans) cant provide the same return of investment as F1 it is not viable for the manufacturers to build the cars like 919 r18 and ts050 anymore. The 2014 regulations went out in time when vw and toyota wanted to show their hybrid tech, so it was the reason for the to invest 300-400 mln euro per season to showcase the avant garde technology (more so than in f1). 

    Unfortunately fia wec couldnt provide the platform to the manufacturers for their promotions. What were the reasons - fia wec management inefficiency or fia politics to save f1 (which was under the heavy level of critics at time) we would never know. Of course dieselgate is the secondary factor.

    So for now it is a choice - to have a field or make hi tech regs and have an empty field. First one is better I believe. Anyway, the masses dont know the tech, they see the label. Cant wait for 2023


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    blueflame:
    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Very good analysis...Smiley

    I beg to differ in case of F1 in 2026 - I think we will see Audi AND Porsche as engine suppliers...Smiley

    But it´s  long time to 2026....

    Blueflame

    Thank you for the compliment.

    You may be correct, but I suspect that VAG has a clear plan for its Motorsport , and that would include one brand in F1 and one brand in Sportscar racing. This will allow for the concentration of effort and resources (both financial and technological). However, I'm sure that if someone (i.e. TAG) came along and threw down a few tens of millions for a Porsche engine, they would gladly accept it. Business first!

     


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Nice post Superidol!

    I fully share your opinion. However, we have to admit that due to the fact that fia wec (except le mans) cant provide the same return of investment as F1 it is not viable for the manufacturers to build the cars like 919 r18 and ts050 anymore. The 2014 regulations went out in time when vw and toyota wanted to show their hybrid tech, so it was the reason for the to invest 300-400 mln euro per season to showcase the avant garde technology (more so than in f1). 

    Unfortunately fia wec couldnt provide the platform to the manufacturers for their promotions. What were the reasons - fia wec management inefficiency or fia politics to save f1 (which was under the heavy level of critics at time) we would never know. Of course dieselgate is the secondary factor.

    So for now it is a choice - to have a field or make hi tech regs and have an empty field. First one is better I believe. Anyway, the masses dont know the tech, they see the label. Cant wait for 2023

    Yes, we all know the excuses/reasons provided at the time of  the VAG brands leaving the WEC, but lets examine the reasons for the status quo at the time:

    1. The costs start to climb when Audi started racing its diesel engine machine. It is not clear whether it was the FIA/ACO that pushed this “technology” or whether it was VAG that wanted to promote diesel as a “clean” and cheaper fuel for ICE’s. The fact is that the technology was very expensive to develop and master and thus costs started to climb.
    2. The diesel engine had a few advantages over its non-diesel cousins (low revving, torque, etc.) which meant further development of non-diesel ICE’s was needed for them to stay competitive (i.e. DFI)
    3. Then came the hybrid era! All interested manufacturers were clambering for the FIA/ACO to allow this technology because they wanted to “make racing- technologically relevant”.
    4. All the competing manufacturers participated in the development of the rules, and then after 3 or 4 years they all complained (except Toyota) that it has become too expensive. I don’t disagree, but who’s fault is that?
    5. Of course, the manufacturers all claim that the ROI was not there because the WEC/ACO was unable to promote the series in order to propel it to the levels similar to F1. My surprise is that 1) they expected this to happen in two or three years, and 2) given the WEC/ACO past history, why would they believe that they were capable of such a feat? I’m only sorry that I was not in their meetings, because I have a very large bridge in Lisbon to sell to them.
    6. The issue that I have with the current ruleset is that we have a 180-degree change in direction. We went from an expensive (but not liberal) ruleset, to a “lets try and make racing as cheap as chips”.   
    7. The problem is that racing is not “cheap as chips” and so this rule set will fail just like all others before it.

    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    1. Its ok , the costs start to grow when the manufacturers come. They are happy to spend, but they need the ROI. However, the greatest escalation came in 2014, when the new regs were introduced. These regs were very expensive. 

    2.Under 2014 rules the diesels and petrols were well balanced under EoT (technology balance)

    3. True. Very intense development, what to say, by 2016 porsche wanted 3rd hybrid (rear kers in their case) and more electric power, however aco didnt go this way. So it lead to porsche exit. Audi was to exit due to diesel gate. No more need to promote diesel hybrids.

    4. VW didnt complain about costs too, however these costs were too high for peugeot f.e. BMW was ready to enter and invest, but aco was too late with hydrogen.

    5. ACO did a great job for 2014 regs and all went fine in 2015 with promotion, but 2016 has seen the decline. It was possible to promote fia wec at f1 levels, considering the f1 crisis, but I tend to think that ACO couldnt modify the rules the way the manufacturers wanted (toyota was lagging with 3rd ers - in their case thermal recovery) and I think the politics were there. F1 cant have the competition. 1993 has shown it, so as now.

    6. Why not liberal? 2014 ruleset was very liberal. You have the open concept, do whatever you want, simply under the certain energy deployment limits. F1 is not liberal - you work under the given requirements on engine and chassis, so all your work is attention to details to get 0.1s. FIA wec was always vice versa - open concept but limited energy (fuel, restrictors and so on) deployment.

    7. We will see, these rules are closer to group C ones. Of course everything will work until F1 is safe. If we see F1 fail, nobody will give the FIA WEC the development. 


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Missed one important point. You forgot to consider the Piech factor.

    Way back then, when Piech was still alive, he had his feud with the Porsches. He was in charge and wanted his baby, Audi', to shine over the Porsches. Hence why he had his Audis racing and winning a bunch in Le Mans while at the same time prevented Porsche from entering. What did Porsche do after Piech was ousted? Win 3 in a row.

    Now that Audi's sugar daddy is long gone, it will never outshine the proper family brand. Whatever Audi's past success was, Piech made those happened, it wasn't really about Audi's greatness, those were given to them by Piech. Just like how Piech gifted Bentley the Le Mans win to promote his prized acquisition. 

    There aren't such a egomaniac at VAG anymore, the proper brand hierarchy will stay. 


    --

     

     


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Missed one important point. You forgot to consider the Piech factor.

    Way back then, when Piech was still alive, he had his feud with the Porsches. He was in charge and wanted his baby, Audi', to shine over the Porsches. Hence why he had his Audis racing and winning a bunch in Le Mans while at the same time prevented Porsche from entering. What did Porsche do after Piech was ousted? Win 3 in a row.

    Now that Audi's sugar daddy is long gone, it will never outshine the proper family brand. Whatever Audi's past success was, Piech made those happened, it wasn't really about Audi's greatness, those were given to them by Piech. Just like how Piech gifted Bentley the Le Mans win to promote his prized acquisition. 

    There aren't such a egomaniac at VAG anymore, the proper brand hierarchy will stay. 

    Lets hope you are correct!Smiley


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    6. Why not liberal? 2014 ruleset was very liberal. You have the open concept, do whatever you want, simply under the certain energy deployment limits. F1 is not liberal - you work under the given requirements on engine and chassis, so all your work is attention to details to get 0.1s. FIA wec was always vice versa - open concept but limited energy (fuel, restrictors and so on) deployment.

     

     

    There are no "liberal" racing rules. There haven't been any since the days of CAN AM. No one believes they are a good thing....but that doesn't mean everyone is correct.


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:
    Whoopsy:
    Spyderidol:

    I haven’t taken the time to comment on this as my feeling are very mixed and I needed the time to try and sort through them.

    I recall my excitement back in January 2013 when Porsche rolled out the 919. How exciting and interesting it was to see just what Porsche had come up with to take on the likes of Audi and Toyota. Those feelings were all consuming.

    I must admit that I was curious to see what the LMDh would/could look like, and I am always a little curious anytime Porsche puts out a new product, especially if it is in the Motorsport arena.

    In contrast, however, to 2013, my levels of excitant are magnitudes lower, and I needed to pinpoint the exact reasons.

    Here they are:

    1. This car will not be faster than any of its competitors. (Due to the BOP)
    2. This car is also the basis for the Audi and Lamborghini (if it enters) cars. (And any other entries from VAG)
    3. It is not a Porsche chassis. Despite Multimatic building the chassis to VAG’s specifications, and the fact that VAG having exclusivity, it is still based on the new LMP2 chassis and therefore not a real “pure” Porsche product.
    4. It is my perception that Porsche’s decision to enter the LMDh class is primarily based on the most lucrative business model, and despite Thomas Laudenbach’s assertions that Porsche wants to be as successful with this model as it was with the other Motorsport models, it is clear to me that the measure of success has now changed to “how many cars we can sell to customers”, as opposed to “how many races/championships we can win”.

    There is a lot of talk/speculation that the Audi LMDh program has been scaled back (and it is now understood that it will have the same chassis and drivetrain as the Porsche). My suspicion is that this could indicate a possible Audi entry into F1 (engine supplier) in 2026 and that they would rather divert resources to that project in the future.

    If, in fact, Audi is chosen by VAG to represent them in F1, leaving Porsche to be their representative in sportscar racing (Porsche’s natural home), Porsche must be careful that Audi does not become the “senior” sportscar brand within VAG (assuming F1 success).

    The way Porsche can guard its dominant “VAG sportcars brand “ is to be very successful in winning races and championships. In order to this, it may have to put the “most profitable business model” formula on hold.

    Missed one important point. You forgot to consider the Piech factor.

    Way back then, when Piech was still alive, he had his feud with the Porsches. He was in charge and wanted his baby, Audi', to shine over the Porsches. Hence why he had his Audis racing and winning a bunch in Le Mans while at the same time prevented Porsche from entering. What did Porsche do after Piech was ousted? Win 3 in a row.

    Now that Audi's sugar daddy is long gone, it will never outshine the proper family brand. Whatever Audi's past success was, Piech made those happened, it wasn't really about Audi's greatness, those were given to them by Piech. Just like how Piech gifted Bentley the Le Mans win to promote his prized acquisition. 

    There aren't such a egomaniac at VAG anymore, the proper brand hierarchy will stay. 

    Lets hope you are correct!Smiley

     

    Seeing the personal that's now in charge, and from what I had gathered, that seems to be the case. VAG, under Porsche ownership, will always do Porsche first. Mutiny is over. 

    The family feud between the Porsches and the Piechs are pretty much over with Ferdinand gone. The current crop of Piechs are quite friendly with their Porsche cousins. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Spyderidol:
    6. Why not liberal? 2014 ruleset was very liberal. You have the open concept, do whatever you want, simply under the certain energy deployment limits. F1 is not liberal - you work under the given requirements on engine and chassis, so all your work is attention to details to get 0.1s. FIA wec was always vice versa - open concept but limited energy (fuel, restrictors and so on) deployment.

     

     

    There are no "liberal" racing rules. There haven't been any since the days of CAN AM. No one believes they are a good thing....but that doesn't mean everyone is correct.

    True, ok, non correct from me. Open concept. F1 works under the given concept, lmp1 under given balance, fuel consimption, power (through the air intake or fuel flow limitation) - from I think 1975 (when the fuel crisis made aco to restrict the usage of fuel for 24 hours)

    Can-Am, its first iteration, was amazing as non sustainable by all factors:) 


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:
    6. Why not liberal? 2014 ruleset was very liberal. You have the open concept, do whatever you want, simply under the certain energy deployment limits. F1 is not liberal - you work under the given requirements on engine and chassis, so all your work is attention to details to get 0.1s. FIA wec was always vice versa - open concept but limited energy (fuel, restrictors and so on) deployment.

     

     

    There are no "liberal" racing rules. There haven't been any since the days of CAN AM. No one believes they are a good thing....but that doesn't mean everyone is correct.

    True, ok, non correct from me. Open concept. F1 works under the given concept, lmp1 under given balance, fuel consimption, power (through the air intake or fuel flow limitation) - from I think 1975 (when the fuel crisis made aco to restrict the usage of fuel for 24 hours)

    Can-Am, its first iteration, was amazing as non sustainable by all factors:) 

    ..but CAN Am did not die out because it was unsustainable. It died because the series was in essence designed to showcase American muscle (BIG V8's) and then along came Porsche with turbo charging and completely decimated the big block V8's. This led to a rule change essentially banning the Porsches and eventually killing the series. (once again we see rules going from liberal to conscripted...and then the final result)


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    True. Turbo and fuel crisis. American atteliers tryed to adopt the turbo to chevy big block. Massive power, about 1400-1600 hp (the final figure is unknown, only speculations), but it didnt work. Shadow tried and the case was closed after several blow ups.

    In unfair advantage book, Donohue also has written about the possibility to adopt their v16 (7 liter version of the same engine) to the turbo. His forecasts on power were 2000 hp. But the project was never seriously considered (i believe it was spare in case of new chassis and loss of power advantage they had)

    Crazy series it was:) (the whole gr7 was out of this world, japanese nissan r382, toyota 7, interseries...late 60s hillclimb) the same craziness - closed wheel grand prix races like 1937 avus under formula libre regulations (these were not gp regulated cars, because of >750kg weight)


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Yes it was "crazy", but it was spectacular and, at that time, one of the most competitive series in the world. It  also had many F1 drivers competing.  This was real racing! We will never see anything like it again, and that saddens me .


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Setting the negativity aside, the car looks quite good in this picture:

    It looks slimmer than the 919. The proportions seem better. 


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Rear wing goes behind the rear overhang - previously it was prohibited. Front lights in the other photos can be seen (ovals on the front bumber 

    In some ways it resembles me multimatic mazda:)) history repeats))) first there was jag then mazda and then porsche wsc95)))))


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    It does look a bit like a 919. To my surprise. I had expected the hypercar class to look more like streetcars (918, Ferrari Larifari, etc) and less like LMP cars.

    You mention you can see the headlights, can you outline them for me? I couldn't really visualize them. In all fairness, I would expect the Hypercar to take more design cues from the EV racer prototype, as that is supposed to lead the way design wise. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more Taycan styled headlights.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    It does look a bit like a 919. To my surprise. I had expected the hypercar class to look more like streetcars (918, Ferrari Larifari, etc) and less like LMP cars.

     That was the original idea for Hypercars, but it never really got off the ground, and was quickly sidelined once they decided to create the LMDh class based on LMP2 chassis.

    You mention you can see the headlights, can you outline them for me? I couldn't really visualize them. In all fairness, I would expect the Hypercar to take more design cues from the EV racer prototype, as that is supposed to lead the way design wise. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more Taycan styled headlights.

    The headlights will look something like this:


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Joost:

    It does look a bit like a 919. To my surprise. I had expected the hypercar class to look more like streetcars (918, Ferrari Larifari, etc) and less like LMP cars.

    You mention you can see the headlights, can you outline them for me? I couldn't really visualize them. In all fairness, I would expect the Hypercar to take more design cues from the EV racer prototype, as that is supposed to lead the way design wise. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more Taycan styled headlights.

    Joost, look on the "border" on the paint. I see it goes like this...

    Multimatic-chassised-Porsche-LMDh-Shakedown-2022-4.jpeg


    Re: VW Group at Le Mans

    Thanks for explaining Spyder and Kudrya! When you mentioned “oval”, I was looking for something like 911-style oval, and couldn’t for the life of me see what you meant!


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


     
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