Crown

 I'm in the process of speccing my 997.2 GT3 and I'm wondering...

1.) Is PCM actually worth it? What can it do what the stock system can't other than GPS?I don't use GPS/Sat Nav (my gf would say it's because I'm a MAN and therefore prefer to get hopelessly lost than admitting that I don't know where I'm going) and while having a touch screen is nice... does it feel.... wrong in the GT3?

2.) Sound Package Plus - now I'm an audiophile (or rather I'd like to think of myself as one) and appreciate a good quality sound system. I don't intend to go all musical in a GT3 but for a car of this calibre, I'd really hate it if it comes with a really weedy stereo. Could someone with experience with this set up in a GT3 comment on this? Is it worth it, or does the engine drown it out anyway?

3.) Does the sound quality differ in anyway whether or not you have PCM? What about the telephone system?

I intend to use the GT3 as a daily driver (legend has it that it is possible) but I'm trying to trim down the options list. My thinking is that while I'd like some comfort in the car, I'm trying not to turn it into something it isn't so while I still have a floor mats, i'm not going to bother with, for example, the leather pack. The Chrono package I've leaned (from rennteam forums) does precisely s0d all so that's now gone... and now I'm on to the PCM decision. Any help would be much appreciated.

PCM - I think that really depends on if you are going full clubsport or not. If you intend to track your car a lot and you are going for things like the lightweight lights then Id say PCM isnt necessary and might even hinder resale a little for a car that is obviously setup for lightness.  If however you intend to try to make the car a little more liveable for daily driving, as you say you are, and are perhaps not going with clubsport then I think PCM is necessary, especially for resale, even if you dont really use the Nav yourself.  Its not unforgivable not having PCM on a GT3 in the way it is on a normal Carrera but its still adviseable if its a daily driver spec.

Sound Package Plus.  Well if you go PCM this comes as standard to the previous question might end up dictating your choice here.  However if you are an audiophile, then Im pretty sure you will find the 4 speaker 2x25W standard system unacceptable. Sound package plus gives you the same basic setup in a standard carrera i.e. 9 speakers and 235W. Not BOSE standard but a hell of a lot better than standard setup and one that wouldnt irritate you as much Im sure.

As far as I am aware the SPP alone and PCM with SPP are identical in audio output and settings.

Im on the brink of ordering a GT3 myself and I am considering my spec too. I wont be getting clubsport as I wont track the car and I want it to be as comfy as possible without ruining the spirit of what a GT3 is. I might go with the normal bucket seats (i.e not the lightweight ones) but I will definately be getting PCM and SSP. Both of these are essential for me to make the car liveable day to day.

What I think: get the Sound package, cut the PCM and do you really believe you will be able to hear yourself talking on the phone?

 Thanks for your opinions guys  The Sound Package sounds like a keeper. The PCM.... well... I think I'll wait for a few more replies. I understand it might divide opinions and no, I won't track the car on any sort of regular basis but I do take the point about re-sale...

arrrrgh... now someone just pointed out that for what I look to be paying... a no-options MkII RS might actually be fairly close... 

 Interesting questions !!!

I currently have a Gen 2 Carrera with all the toys and am also in the process of putting the spec together for my GT3. 

I love the new PCM and for me it will be going into the GT3. If you look at the new basic stereo (and its footprint) i struggle to understand that there would be a massive weight saving over PCM (Not like the Gen 1 cars anyway).

I like the following features with the PCM:-

Touch screen makes the use very easy as you can touch POI on the map and instantly bring them up to navigate to or phone (if you have the phone kit). 

The new hand free phone and Blue tooth is great, the old system was pants in the gen 1 cars. 

Although you can put the iPOD adapter onto the standard stereo i am not sure how easy it is to search the music ? Apart from album art you have all the features of the iPOD on the PCM screen.

Although i also don't use the NAV function much i do find some of the items like telling you where the nearest fuel stations are located as being very useful.

One thing i would not spec again is the CD changer... no need with iPOD !! also sports chrono is a waist of time on GT3 as you get the sport button regardless.

For me i will be taking the following:-

PCM

Sound PAckage

Phone

iPOD Adapter

Engine Mounts

Front Axle LIfter

GT2 Style folding bucket seats

Leather dash

Thats a very good point that Colin makes about Ipod and PCM. The Ipod functionality is indeed quite basic without PCM - its little more than just a connection. Searching etc is less functional as I understand it. Thats the reasoning Porsche use to justify the price hike for IPOD from £75 to £200(ish) when you also have PCM.

I personally think a daily driver needs PCM, but each to their own. Thats the beauty of these cars - spec what matters to you to enhance your experience of it and b*lls to the consequences come resale. The perfect car will be so much more satisifying than a couple of grand at the end of the day. If money was a real issue Im sure we wouldnt be buying one in the first place.

The PCM is hard to justify in my opinion for its cost, particularly in the mkII car. In the mkI gt3 the standard CDR unit looked really fugly and therefore I suspect many fitted the PCM to make it look like a dash worthy of such an expensive car. In the mkII, the standard unit looks fine. I don't plan to order the PCM as I can buy a satnav unit for a couple hundred dollars to do its job if I had a need for sat navigation. Way overpriced in my opinion for a color screen with maps and some driver preferences.

The Sound Package Plus I think is worthwhile as it would give you proportionally better and louder sound to counteract the loud environment in a gt3 (for when you don't want to listen to that great engine sound) without significant weight penalty... Don't expect anything anywhere near audiophile quality but there is no way I'd be drilling and cutting a gt3 to fit aftermarket sound equipment despite my love of music and the $15k system in my current car...

ok thats a very fair point you make about gen2 somewhat prettier standard unit. You've got me rethinking my stance on PCM now!  PCM has a double whammy in cost of course if you are going with the IPOD interface. UK price for PCM is £1904 add to that the increase of £134 on Ipod with PCM and you have £2038 which is a lot of cash for an extra 1.5" of screen size and a dash of colour (+Nav of course)!

Of all 911's I guess the GT3 is the most acceptable car not to have PCM, but maybe this only applies if you go clubsport rather than lux spec?

You've got me thinking now too!!!!

Adam2S:

Thats a very good point that Colin makes about Ipod and PCM.

oops, I mean Chris!  We have a Colin Dixon at work thats why I mixed your name up - Sorry!

 No problem mate...

Out of interest are you going to Silverstone in June for the GT3 launch event ? I only ask as i see you have one on order.

It's a tough one but value for money decided the fate of PCM for me. If I were speccing a mkI, it would be a must because although I'd never use the sat nav, the CDR unit looked shocking in my opinion.... In this mkII, there is not enough benefit to justify a $7k premium we have to pay. I don't rely on sat nav to get around and if I did, a $400-500 unit is fully featured and would surfice.

The weight penalty won't be huge and don't worry about clubsport vs daily drive spec expectations... Just weigh up whether you would use its features and whether the price is justified for those benefits. Good luck...

@cdixon : Yes, Id really like to be there - Although having only placed my deposit today I havnt had an offical invite yet. I asked for one when I placed the deposit but I suspect I might have to push again to get it through. Although Im a relatively late deposit placer, Im still quite hopeful of getting a car in 2009 due to "shopping around" to find the best slot allocations etc...

I wonder if the normal driving days will be open on the monday before? Ive yet to book in on my "freebie" day from the current car so if I could make the day before / after for my driving day and stay over in the area would make a lot of sense for me. I live "up north" so its a fair ole drive to come down twice pretty close in succession.

I see you are going to order the black leather interior option.  At £1780 it seems a bit steep, but now I am looking into it more, it seems that all the all the press cars and all the literature pics are fitted with it!  Without the black leather option the description seems to feature a worryingly large amount of leatherette and not quite as much use of alcantara as you might expect.  Again Ive got no real info as yet on what the leatherette looks / feels like - maybe its hard to tell apart from the real leather, but the semi-hidden descriptions that disclose the lack of alcantara also make me feel this is perhaps a must have option to make the car feel special inside and not like an elise.  I guess the silverstone day might be the only chance to get to see the cars with / without this option before specification.

@911rox : Well despite my initial thoughts on PCM being essential Im now about 50:50 on it also. You are right the standard 5" mono touchscreen CDR-30 looks pretty nice to me and I am now thinking you might be right. The UK price of £2k suddenly looks like a hard one to swallow to me for basically nothing more than Sat Nav.

Now then, full leather or PCM, that is the question....

Just wish I was a british MP, then I could put them both on expenses!

I'd take the leather, i think... I'm hoping to go that way myself...

get both. you will not feel a difference in the cars performance with or without the added weight.

Guys I am sorry I don't want to stir anyone but could you guys take a step back and think for a second on what you are talking about?

Leather, PCM, phone, sound systems.... in a GT3? Maybe a CarreraS with PDK is a better deal if that's what you treasure?

On the leather dashboard: I owned for 5 years one of the first production 997 car (#267-C2). It came without the leather package (factory configured) and I can guarantee you that I never missed that option. The plastic dashboard has a pattern that replicates leather (with a rubber feel) and it was the best plastic dashboard I ever saw in a car.

Pentium:

Guys I am sorry I don't want to stir anyone but could you guys take a step back and think for a second on what you are talking about?

Leather, PCM, phone, sound systems.... in a GT3? Maybe a CarreraS with PDK is a better deal if that's what you treasure?

On the leather dashboard: I owned for 5 years one of the first production 997 car (#267-C2). It came without the leather package (factory configured) and I can guarantee you that I never missed that option. The plastic dashboard has a pattern that replicates leather (with a rubber feel) and it was the best plastic dashboard I ever saw in a car.

 

Good point there, mate. I'm not actually worried about the weight and so on. What I'm really after is opinions on people who have/don't have them and whether they think it's actually... umm... worth the money. I mean going back to my op, I don't really know if the PCM does anything else extra to the 'normal' stereo system - the answer seems to be 'very little' apart from Sat Nav.

There is a good point regarding re-sale value of the car. I don't really know the market, but it might be worth a thought whether PCM cars do get better $'s when sold. Having said that the 'normal' system does look okay so I might just stick with that.

The sound system - I'm not really after some 20 speaker 4,000Watt system with woofers the size of dustbin lids, but just prefer to have something that I can enjoy. I'm fairly sure the Sound Package Plus is a little more than I need but I think it's probably a safe bet against being disappointed by the standard system.

Leather - humm. I'm not so sure on this one. I really like the Alcantara/GT3 combo and I'm interested in durability and I can live with bits of plastic/leatherette here and there as long as they don't fall apart/peel/crack. I do understand some people though, you've got this incredible car and the leather/alcantara interior sure looks nice... then there're these bits of plastic everywhere. Sort of spoils proceedings for some, I guess. As for me, after this, I'm saving up for a 998 C4S (hopefully) and that will have leather.

Pentium:

Guys I am sorry I don't want to stir anyone but could you guys take a step back and think for a second on what you are talking about?

Leather, PCM, phone, sound systems.... in a GT3? Maybe a CarreraS with PDK is a better deal if that's what you treasure?

On the leather dashboard: I owned for 5 years one of the first production 997 car (#267-C2). It came without the leather package (factory configured) and I can guarantee you that I never missed that option. The plastic dashboard has a pattern that replicates leather (with a rubber feel) and it was the best plastic dashboard I ever saw in a car.

 
Its a fair point you make about luxuries and th GT3, but lets face it most cars will only spend a small fraction of their time on the track and the rest of the time on the road. For me even less - I will almost certainly never track mine. Im buying it for the driver feedback, the performance, the looks, the sound and hopefully the exclusiveness and improved residuals. No other carrera model has this mix irrespective of its track capabilities. I wouldnt want to ruin its track credentials of course by adding things people feel very strongly against as it would therefore damage residuals, but equally this car is to be my daily driver and I dont want it to end up like and exige / elise. I believe the GT3 is the combo track/daily driver compromise model, if you want true hardcore then go GT3RS. I think a little consession to comfort is ok in a GT3 thats why porsche offer it in addition to the GT3RS. Just because this is a track capable car doesnt mean to say it should therefore be specced to be as horrible as possible inside all in the interests of saving every last kilo of weight. You could get an Ariel Atom 300 and have an amazing performance super light track car for half the money, but its absolutely not a daily driver. I for one want my GT3 to be as nice to live in day to day as possible without ruining its basic track credentials for the next owner (or costing me a small fortune during the specification!).

Re Sound / PCM - I know the car makes a superb soundtrack but that doesnt mean that from time to time Id like to listen to music too, and its not unreasonable to expect a decent soundsystem in a track/road car costing what a GT3 does. Im a bit of an audiophile so SSP is a necessity to me, I know the basic weedy 2x25W system would just annoy the hell out of me every day. Get this (/poke) I'd spec BOSE if it was available!

Re Leather - My real gripe here is that all the press cars and reviews feature cars that clearly have the extended leather/alcantara option fitted, and I believe its slighly misleading of Porsche to do this as it makes the car look very nicely kitted out with alcantara everywhere when in fact this is a pricey option and one I feel is easy to overlook. The easy give-away is that all the press cars clearly have alcantara on the doors - this is plastic on the standard spec. Im actually more bothred about the relative lack of alcantara in the standard spec than the leather or leatherette issue.  Your comments that the plastic / leatherette is the best you have ever seen does give some comfort though.

Re Phone - of course we need a phone in a daily driver! Its illegal to hold a handset (in the UK anyway) and being a businessman (thats how i afford to pay for the GT3) Im on the phone a lot and that means taking a call in the car from time to time.

Unless an option adds a lot I really dont see the performance debate anyway. Any option that perhaps only adds 1-2kg here or there seems to be a complete non-point. On a car weighing 1400Kg this is about 0.1% overall. The only real options that seems to make a tangible weight difference are the two kinds of bucket seats that are 14/24kg lighter, but even that is only 1% difference. You would have to be actually racing to notice the difference, not just buzzing about on a track day having some fun. Anway I'll probably be going with buckets because I like the look of them in the car!  hahahaha

@Adam2S: just out of curiosity, how seriously did you consider getting a manual 997 C2S Gen 2 with -20mm Sport PASM suspension, rear LSD, short shifter, powerkit (inc PSE) and all the interior toys you could wish for (BOSE, iPod etc)?  Effectively, it would be a much sportier 997 than your current PDK car but, at the same time, a much more comfortable and well equipped car than a 997 GT3 Gen 2 could ever be...

IMvHO, one should buy a car that really suits one's usage and tailor the options to please oneself and suit one's pocket. Given that you intend to use it as a daliy driver and that you never intend to track it, IMvHO, this is a more appropriate choice in your case.

FWIW, I was in a very similar position to you. I read about other Rennteamers intending to order Mk1 997 GT3s BUT these guys intended to regularly track their cars. Like you, I don't track my car. So I didn't allow myself to be swept along by what their thinking was.

I thought to myself that I want my car to be sporty in how it performs (and how it looks on the outside) BUT I want it to be comfortable and luxurious on the inside. AFAIK this appears to be your view too - but you seem to be arriving at a different solution

One piece of advice I would give you is more based on psychology than anything else. Amongst car enthusiasts, there's sometimes a temptation to order a really hardcore car - in part influenced by what others have ordered - because one finds it irresistible to go along with what one might think others would approve of. This can sometimes lead to mistakes.

In your case, you have unfortunately already regretted choosing PDK so you would not want to make another error of judgement again. IMHO you should be totally honest with yourself and think really long and hard about your choice. If, after doing that, you still think you should get a GT3 as a daily driver with no intention of ever tracking it, then more power to you!

No offence intended - and I don't wish to interfere - just offering some sincere advice

--
 

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

I think you are bang on with your observations there (as usual). No offence at all taken, in fact I welcome your insightful observations.

I do now regret my move to PDK as it has ended up with a car that is far too soft for my liking and there is a risk in my mind too that a move to GT3 will be a bit too far the otherway. However I have test driven a mk1 on an extended run when I first started to consider the move and that included driving it around the city. I am happy that in terms of driving feedback its fine and nothing too hardcore - very easy to drive around town and lots of fun at the same time.

I always really wanted a GT3 deep in my heart but didnt want to pay over list for a used one last time as I missed the boat on deposits on gen1. So off I went and specced a C2S manual, with aerokit and PSE (and toys) - in effect a GT3 lookandsound-a-like with super-lux interior. It was the ideal car for me and has set a very high standard that the new car has failed to achieve. I loved the looks, I loved the sound and I loved the drive. The new gen2 car doesnt have aero, it doesnt have PSE and it has PDK. Moves I thought I would be happy with in the interests of not getting a car that was identical to the old one. Mistake - my old car was so perfect the new one seemed worse in all those respects I had changed and now Im left disappointed. In most other ways though (colour, wheels etc) the new car was pretty much identical to the first car, and perversly this has taken the shine off even the bits I didnt make "worse" as it feels like "the same car, but worse".

You are right of course there is still a good chance that a manual gen2 C2S with aero, PSE and lots of toys would make the ideal car for me but I feel like Ive been there and done that and I am anxious now to make sure I get something that really moves the game on and makes a big difference, for the better hopefully. I dont want to feel like Ive paid for two changes and ended up back where I started - albeit with all the gen2 refinements.  Aero isnt out on gen2 until Nov either so there is a longish wait in this route - equiv to the wait for a GT3. I really want a proper "new" car this time, but 911 is under my skin now. Im also feeling sore (at myself really) for the amount of cash Ive lost of the two changes and Im mindful that GT3 should hold its value considerably better than another top spec C2S providing I sell it before 998 GT3 hits production, but that will be at least 3 years away I guess.

To me the GT3 visually looks even better than a C2S aero, sounds even better than C2S PSE and drives better still than the C2S man. (all those based on gen1 experiences) The GT3 is at the end of the day the real mccoy - not just my wannabe spec car. I just need to make it a nice place to be inside without ruining the concept and thus saleability to the next person.  Not perhaps the normal motives that people get into GT3 but following my test drive I was much more similar to be in and drive to my gen1 car than I really expected. Wasnt at all hardcore but then the one I drove was a lux spec with sports seats etc. Had I driven a clubsport I might have felt differently.

I do appreciate that most GT3 owners here will push towards harcore spec but thats why im interested to guage opinion on what is / isnt felt to be a good idea, trying to balance what I want with what is in the spirit of a GT3 lux spec.

Decisions, decisions - at best Ive got 2-3 months to dwell over the whole thing anyway before I need to spec up and then my deposit goes final. If in the meanwhile I bottle it, the deposit is refundable, and with todays interest rates its hardly anything lost on having the £10k in the bank.

Ive been through exactly the thought loop you describe and on the balance I feel like GT3 stands the greatest chance of restoring the smiles overall as a package. Who knows, I dont even know myself.   Its been almost 20 years since a made such a big mistake on a really wanting a car and I then hating it, when I bought a 4.3 TVR Griffith and then sold it 4 weeks later (at a big loss). I thought I was over the making mistakes at my age! ha!

@Adam2S: reading your response, it's now clear that you've gone through all the right thought processes. I think you've made the right choice for the right reasons.  I hope it all works out for you like you intend it to

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection