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    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    It totally cracks me up, all these people that get the "S" because they want the sportiest variety, but drive around with PASM in the normal(comfort) mode.

    I want to "feel" the road in the 911, not have it dampened with the normal mode of PASM. But that's just me..





    Do you actually understand how PASM actually work...?


    In normal "comfort" mode the system is always trying to give the softest setting possible , but it is also always monitoring the changes in road type so it has a sliding scale on which it varies its settings from comfortably soft to firm.....

    However in sport mode it is always trying to give you the hardest setting possible ,but if the road suface changes it will soften to accomodate the change in surface quality.

    I did a test drive day with a porsche GT driver and he indicated that he would choose a PASM equipped car over a base suspension set-up.......he did also say that the non PASM sports set-up was better but it had no option to have a softer ride when needed......so the PASM car has the best of both.......

    Screwed up testing

    MT should be ashamed, right?

    You have two cars with significant HP differences yet. The 1/4 mile results are the same?

    Do they have any brains at MT? The results would tell you somthing is messed up with their testing procedures.

    UNLESS they are manipulating the results on purpose, naaaaah, they wouldn't do thaaaaat..., yeah..., right... .

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    taffy said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    It totally cracks me up, all these people that get the "S" because they want the sportiest variety, but drive around with PASM in the normal(comfort) mode.

    I want to "feel" the road in the 911, not have it dampened with the normal mode of PASM. But that's just me..





    Do you actually understand how PASM actually work...?


    In normal "comfort" mode the system is always trying to give the softest setting possible , but it is also always monitoring the changes in road type so it has a sliding scale on which it varies its settings from comfortably soft to firm.....

    However in sport mode it is always trying to give you the hardest setting possible ,but if the road suface changes it will soften to accomodate the change in surface quality.

    I did a test drive day with a porsche GT driver and he indicated that he would choose a PASM equipped car over a base suspension set-up.......he did also say that the non PASM sports set-up was better but it had no option to have a softer ride when needed......so the PASM car has the best of both.......


    LOL...Yeah I do "understand" the mechanics behind PASM, doesn't mean I have to like it. If I had my choice, I would've chosen the sport suspension, but no such option here in the U.S. If you happen to like PASM, then good for you.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    taffy said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    It totally cracks me up, all these people that get the "S" because they want the sportiest variety, but drive around with PASM in the normal(comfort) mode.

    I want to "feel" the road in the 911, not have it dampened with the normal mode of PASM. But that's just me..





    Do you actually understand how PASM actually work...?


    In normal "comfort" mode the system is always trying to give the softest setting possible , but it is also always monitoring the changes in road type so it has a sliding scale on which it varies its settings from comfortably soft to firm.....

    However in sport mode it is always trying to give you the hardest setting possible ,but if the road suface changes it will soften to accomodate the change in surface quality.

    I did a test drive day with a porsche GT driver and he indicated that he would choose a PASM equipped car over a base suspension set-up.......he did also say that the non PASM sports set-up was better but it had no option to have a softer ride when needed......so the PASM car has the best of both.......


    LOL...Yeah I do "understand" the mechanics behind PASM, doesn't mean I have to like it. If I had my choice, I would've chosen the sport suspension, but no such option here in the U.S. If you happen to like PASM, then good for you.



    What specifically don't you like about PASM?

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Although I own a "s" model, but I do feel when PASM is on the suspension is a bit bouncy on uneven road surfaces. I suppose this is the only "bad" side after 1 year of driving.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    MrBonus said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    taffy said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    It totally cracks me up, all these people that get the "S" because they want the sportiest variety, but drive around with PASM in the normal(comfort) mode.

    I want to "feel" the road in the 911, not have it dampened with the normal mode of PASM. But that's just me..





    Do you actually understand how PASM actually work...?


    In normal "comfort" mode the system is always trying to give the softest setting possible , but it is also always monitoring the changes in road type so it has a sliding scale on which it varies its settings from comfortably soft to firm.....

    However in sport mode it is always trying to give you the hardest setting possible ,but if the road suface changes it will soften to accomodate the change in surface quality.

    I did a test drive day with a porsche GT driver and he indicated that he would choose a PASM equipped car over a base suspension set-up.......he did also say that the non PASM sports set-up was better but it had no option to have a softer ride when needed......so the PASM car has the best of both.......


    LOL...Yeah I do "understand" the mechanics behind PASM, doesn't mean I have to like it. If I had my choice, I would've chosen the sport suspension, but no such option here in the U.S. If you happen to like PASM, then good for you.



    What specifically don't you like about PASM?


    I really don't think that some here care what I think at this point. Anyways, I want more road feel than what normal mode of PASM offers, EVEN WITH the "active" factor. The sport mode is not to my liking. I like the base suspension. It's a good blend of comfort and sportiness. IMO, I think PASM is more of a gimmick than anything else. It's not really necessary. Sometimes less is more..

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    I really don't think that some here care what I think at this point. Anyways, I want more road feel than what normal mode of PASM offers, EVEN WITH the "active" factor. The sport mode is not to my liking. I like the base suspension. It's a good blend of comfort and sportiness. IMO, I think PASM is more of a gimmick than anything else. It's not really necessary. Sometimes less is more..



    I agree. The normal (comfort mode) is too soft for a Porsche 911. I would have preferred either (i) a comfort mode that is more similar to the base 997 suspension or (ii) a middle setting on PASM that is more similar to the base 997 suspension. I've taken a liking to the sport suspension because the car is just on rails with the sport setting, even though you really can't use it much on normal roads. But the comfort mode is just too soft. I can't tell you how many times I've been in comfort mode and wanted to make a quick sporty move with the car (without time to switch to sport mode) only to be disappointed. It's like driving a Mercedes SL.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    How is (any comments on) PASM with 19" vs 18" wheels (s vs. non-S).

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    I really don't think that some here care what I think at this point. Anyways, I want more road feel than what normal mode of PASM offers, EVEN WITH the "active" factor. The sport mode is not to my liking. I like the base suspension. It's a good blend of comfort and sportiness. IMO, I think PASM is more of a gimmick than anything else. It's not really necessary. Sometimes less is more..



    I agree. The normal (comfort mode) is too soft for a Porsche 911. I would have preferred either (i) a comfort mode that is more similar to the base 997 suspension or (ii) a middle setting on PASM that is more similar to the base 997 suspension. I've taken a liking to the sport suspension because the car is just on rails with the sport setting, even though you really can't use it much on normal roads. But the comfort mode is just too soft. I can't tell you how many times I've been in comfort mode and wanted to make a quick sporty move with the car (without time to switch to sport mode) only to be disappointed. It's like driving a Mercedes SL.


    Exactly! Thanks U Boat. Somebody finally gets my point, you just say it so much better than me. IMO, PASM is not the "best of both worlds." To me the BOBW would be the base suspension and the sport suspension. I wonder how many UK 997S owners have the PASM vs. the sport suspension. That's a no brainer, IMO..

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    If u believe this you have more problems than just your poor model choice. Don't get me wrong, if you truly want a non-S 911, so be it. Just don't try to say that the S isn't worth every penny- and countlees more, of the diff between the two.
    Try to make those upgrades to your car. Just the h.p. alone would cost 17,000.00 more from Porsche, let alone all the other fabulous options that the S has over the non-S.
    There isn't a single performance test that the non-S will outperform the S, sorry. Just look at the dyno chart for one. When the cars were first introduced, another [censored] ragger, maybe even MT, wrote that the non-S had better torque because it peaked lower. Obviously, that was another [censored] blog because the S beats the non EVERYWHERE in torque and h.p., even though it peaks higher. The "red" brakes are basically 996turbo brakes. Give Me a BREAK.
    I won't continue to waste any more of my time with these ridiculous assertions.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Meh, I plan to go to an aftermarket coilover setup shortly. Bilstein is currently working on a set that will work with PASM and I'm holding out for that option.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Oh, I forgot that another rag tested the S and it posted the best braking time, of every car they had EVER tested. Didn't see the non-S there .
    I personally don't know why anyone would even consider a non-S . No more power than it's predecessor . I would have kept my E46 M-3 if an S was not offered.
    If you really believe that your car will outperform an S, let's run for pinks ?

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    I really don't think that some here care what I think at this point. Anyways, I want more road feel than what normal mode of PASM offers, EVEN WITH the "active" factor. The sport mode is not to my liking. I like the base suspension. It's a good blend of comfort and sportiness. IMO, I think PASM is more of a gimmick than anything else. It's not really necessary. Sometimes less is more..



    I agree. The normal (comfort mode) is too soft for a Porsche 911. I would have preferred either (i) a comfort mode that is more similar to the base 997 suspension or (ii) a middle setting on PASM that is more similar to the base 997 suspension. I've taken a liking to the sport suspension because the car is just on rails with the sport setting, even though you really can't use it much on normal roads. But the comfort mode is just too soft. I can't tell you how many times I've been in comfort mode and wanted to make a quick sporty move with the car (without time to switch to sport mode) only to be disappointed. It's like driving a Mercedes SL.



    The standard suspension setup on a scale from 1-10 is about 5......the PASM in comfort mode is generally about 3 or 4 and will firm up to about 7 when the need arises ........making it firmer than standard.

    In sport mode it is almost always 10 sometimes lessening to about 8 if needed.

    By having this sliding scale it covers all bases for the majority of normal drivers ......

    I have had the sports suspension on previous porsches and have found it to be great on smooth roads but a real PITA on any rougher roads.......


    Bit of a bugger if PASM is crap as it is on the new 997 Turbo and the GT3 .......do you really think that Porsche would jeopardise their flagships reputation by putting inferior suspension on them........no nor do i.


    This topic reminds me of an article i read regarding the GT3 brakes....

    there were lots of complaints from amateur drivers saying that the GT3 brakes were poor and could not withstand trackday abuse........

    Porsches answer: If Walter Rohrl can Track the GT3 all day long and have no problems with the braking system then it must be inferior driving that is cooking the brakes... can't argue with that now can we.

    The PASM is a good system are you a good enough driver to get the best from it .....probably not....

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    taffy said:
    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    I really don't think that some here care what I think at this point. Anyways, I want more road feel than what normal mode of PASM offers, EVEN WITH the "active" factor. The sport mode is not to my liking. I like the base suspension. It's a good blend of comfort and sportiness. IMO, I think PASM is more of a gimmick than anything else. It's not really necessary. Sometimes less is more..



    I agree. The normal (comfort mode) is too soft for a Porsche 911. I would have preferred either (i) a comfort mode that is more similar to the base 997 suspension or (ii) a middle setting on PASM that is more similar to the base 997 suspension. I've taken a liking to the sport suspension because the car is just on rails with the sport setting, even though you really can't use it much on normal roads. But the comfort mode is just too soft. I can't tell you how many times I've been in comfort mode and wanted to make a quick sporty move with the car (without time to switch to sport mode) only to be disappointed. It's like driving a Mercedes SL.



    The standard suspension setup on a scale from 1-10 is about 5......the PASM in comfort mode is generally about 3 or 4 and will firm up to about 7 when the need arises ........making it firmer than standard.

    In sport mode it is almost always 10 sometimes lessening to about 8 if needed.

    By having this sliding scale it covers all bases for the majority of normal drivers ......

    I have had the sports suspension on previous porsches and have found it to be great on smooth roads but a real PITA on any rougher roads.......


    Bit of a bugger if PASM is crap as it is on the new 997 Turbo and the GT3 .......do you really think that Porsche would jeopardise their flagships reputation by putting inferior suspension on them........no nor do i.


    This topic reminds me of an article i read regarding the GT3 brakes....

    there were lots of complaints from amateur drivers saying that the GT3 brakes were poor and could not withstand trackday abuse........

    Porsches answer: If Walter Rohrl can Track the GT3 all day long and have no problems with the braking system then it must be inferior driving that is cooking the brakes... can't argue with that now can we.

    The PASM is a good system are you a good enough driver to get the best from it .....probably not....



    Give me a break Taffy. I've been driving a 911 for 10 years. I think I know what I am talking about. For you to imply that I am not a good driver when you don't even know me shows your insecurity and lack of class. Get a life.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    I gotta chime in.

    I used to think that PASM was a true best of both worlds asnwer, until I took a 997S out on a long test drive. Normal mode is too soft and sways more than I'd like. I prefer the suspension on my 996. Sport mode is only acceptable on smooth roads (when it is good) - road imperfections are not well handled in a confidence inspiring way and it's plain uncomfortable. I'd rather have the standard non-PASM set up assuming that it's the same or similar as/to the one on my 996. Even then, I am not satisfied though. My favorite suspension was the sport suspension on the 40th Anniv Edition 996. THis all leads me to believe that the -20 mm sport suspension with LSD is likely the best available, so I await it's arrival in NA (hopefully not forever).

    As for Porsche offering PASM on the GT3 and the Turbo - let's wait and see how they handle. Porsche can make a mistake you know.

    Regarding the PCCB - Porsche handled the problems with the first generation PCCB badly. Those brakes had problems and Porsche did not stand by the product in many cases.

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    This all leads me to believe that the -20 mm sport suspension with LSD is likely the best available, so I await it's arrival in NA (hopefully not forever).



    I'd bet that this would probably be the best..

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    taffy said:
    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:

    I really don't think that some here care what I think at this point. Anyways, I want more road feel than what normal mode of PASM offers, EVEN WITH the "active" factor. The sport mode is not to my liking. I like the base suspension. It's a good blend of comfort and sportiness. IMO, I think PASM is more of a gimmick than anything else. It's not really necessary. Sometimes less is more..



    I agree. The normal (comfort mode) is too soft for a Porsche 911. I would have preferred either (i) a comfort mode that is more similar to the base 997 suspension or (ii) a middle setting on PASM that is more similar to the base 997 suspension. I've taken a liking to the sport suspension because the car is just on rails with the sport setting, even though you really can't use it much on normal roads. But the comfort mode is just too soft. I can't tell you how many times I've been in comfort mode and wanted to make a quick sporty move with the car (without time to switch to sport mode) only to be disappointed. It's like driving a Mercedes SL.



    The standard suspension setup on a scale from 1-10 is about 5......the PASM in comfort mode is generally about 3 or 4 and will firm up to about 7 when the need arises ........making it firmer than standard.

    In sport mode it is almost always 10 sometimes lessening to about 8 if needed.

    By having this sliding scale it covers all bases for the majority of normal drivers ......

    I have had the sports suspension on previous porsches and have found it to be great on smooth roads but a real PITA on any rougher roads.......


    Bit of a bugger if PASM is crap as it is on the new 997 Turbo and the GT3 .......do you really think that Porsche would jeopardise their flagships reputation by putting inferior suspension on them........no nor do i.


    This topic reminds me of an article i read regarding the GT3 brakes....

    there were lots of complaints from amateur drivers saying that the GT3 brakes were poor and could not withstand trackday abuse........

    Porsches answer: If Walter Rohrl can Track the GT3 all day long and have no problems with the braking system then it must be inferior driving that is cooking the brakes... can't argue with that now can we.

    The PASM is a good system are you a good enough driver to get the best from it .....probably not....



    Give me a break Taffy. I've been driving a 911 for 10 years. I think I know what I am talking about. For you to imply that I am not a good driver when you don't even know me shows your insecurity and lack of class. Get a life.



    Sorry if i chose my words with lack of thought..

    Try not to take this all so personally........

    I too have owned 911's and boxsters and Cayennes for the past 10 years (quite a nice lifestyle too thank you)..i consider myself to be a competent driver but in no way qualified enough to berate a system developed with the input and experience of professional drivers...

    Just because you have driven 911's for a period of time does not make you an expert in the intracacies of suspension set-up......yes you know what you like and don't like but just because you don't like it does not make the system inferior to the standard spring and damper configuration...




    Now to get back on topic .....as has all aready been mentioned, the -20mm sports setup with lsd is probably the best option for ultimate handling but, for daily use and i mean the 95pc of the time when the car is driven normally .....the -20mm setup is too hard and does not allow the driver to enjoy the car on normal road surfaces ie:less than perfect.

    In an ideal world i would have the -20mm and lsd but, i much prefer the PASM as it does give me the ride qualities i require on UK roads......

    Re: Hey... S vs non-S chech out Motor Trend this month

    I think taffy makes a good point. For everyday driving on our rough potholed UK roads, PASM does a good job. It's not bad on concrete motorways either-even the M20 in Kent. This is especially true when you have a passenger and you can't drive too quickly. The sad fact is that in the UK, for everyday use, it's really hard to drive the car as it was intended to be driven and in those circumstances PASM is good.

    If however you almost always drive quickly on relatively lightly trafficked smooth roads, where you need the superior control of the sports chassis and comfort is a secondary issue, then the -20mm LSD option makes sense.

    For those who feel themselves expert professionals and feel the need to set the car up perfectly then there's now a GT3 where nearly everything is adjustable. Oh. But you get PASM. So perhaps it's not the PASM but the inevitable compromise when you use softer longer springs, softer bushes and so-on. Not forgetting that the weight distribution on a 911 always causes compromises....

     
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