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    Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    No more BMW M3 after August 2018 in Europe. Smiley It costs too much to adapt and certify a particulate filter to the car.

    This includes the Competition Package and the CS versions!

    Expect some interesting (cheap?) offers from dealers in Europe for cars already in stock.

    M4 already received a particulate filter, this car will be continued.

    The M3 will be continued to be sold on markets outside Europe (US for example).

    New M3 won't come before 2020.

    Btw: Currently, the M550i xDrive production has been stopped for the very same reason (particulate filter retrofit seems to take more time than initially planned) but will continue once the particulate filter is available.

    After September 1st, all new cars need to have a particulate filter installed (new emissions standard Euro 6d).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    ... sorry, I do not understand ...

    M3 and M4 share the same engine, ie, just sedan vs. coupe ... spelling mistake in your post ? ...


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    No Christian is correct apparently the cost involved in adding a particle filter to the low volume M3 is not worth it for BMW. I wonder if there are going to be other casualties of the new Euro-norm


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    RC:

    No more BMW M3 after August 2018 in Europe. Smiley It costs too much to adapt and certify a particulate filter to the car.

    This includes the Competition Package and the CS versions!

    Expect some interesting (cheap?) offers from dealers in Europe for cars already in stock.

    M4 already received a particulate filter, this car will be continued.

    The M3 will be continued to be sold on markets outside Europe (US for example).

    New M3 won't come before 2020.

    Btw: Currently, the M550i xDrive production has been stopped for the very same reason (particulate filter retrofit seems to take more time than initially planned) but will continue once the particulate filter is available.

    After September 1st, all new cars need to have a particulate filter installed (new emissions standard Euro 6d).

     

    I think I know where they will be going with the emission standard Euro 7 Smiley


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    @JR-550:

    ok, thanks, apparently, the M3 does not provide "space" to accommodate the required filter. Well, (automobile) life goes on ...


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    It isn't good enough anyways with the 6 cylinders engine.


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    JR-550:

    No Christian is correct apparently the cost involved in adding a particle filter to the low volume M3 is not worth it for BMW. I wonder if there are going to be other casualties of the new Euro-norm

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    I am so happy my E63 S AMG won't get a particulate filter. Right now, these monsters push out 650-670 hp...stock, one owner in a German forum even claims to have 700 hp stock. With that filter... Smiley

    Apparently there is a reason why the C63 S AMG facelift we ordered for an October 2018 delivery won't get a power upgrade, still the same 510 hp. Why? They had a hard time actually keeping the current power level and the sound could be affected too. I am glad this is the car my wife will drive most of the time. indecision angry


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    What power percentage does a car engine lose if refitted with a particulate filter?


    --

    White 991.2 GT3, production week 10


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    Gauss:

    What power percentage does a car engine lose if refitted with a particulate filter?

    Depends but I heard that up to 10% without proper adaptation. Smiley Also, it seems that the filters can "clog", another problem seems to be the sound dampening effect (similar to turbo chargers).

    Truth is: There isn't much experience with such particulate filters in high performance cars and there aren't many petrol cars on the markets with such filters yet.

    As always, there will be issues in the beginning, so good luck for those who are getting one in their cars. Smiley

    Example BMW: For a specific engine which gets a particulate filter, the power rises by 7 hp. Sounds good, right? Power goes up. BUT: To achieve this, the fuel pressure is increased from 200 bar to 350 bar, also meaning that thermodynamics need to be improved (like cooling and stuff). So the risk that such cars will not perform great under very warm weather conditions is quite high in my opinion.

    Remember the performance issues when the first catalytic converters were introduced? Well...we may be in a different situation nowadays due to improved hardware and software but I have my suspicions that manufacturers had enough time to develop particulate filters for the petrol cars. Look at BMW and the M3 or better, the M550i xDrive where production has been halted for a period of time because they ran into difficulties adapting the particulate filter to the engine/car.

    Not pretty if you ask me...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    Gauss:

    What power percentage does a car engine lose if refitted with a particulate filter?

    BMW told Autocar there is no impact on performance...

    BMW will end production of the F80-generation M3 in August because the car won’t conform to Europe’s more stringent emissions limits.

    A brand spokesman told Autocar that the super-saloon model, which produces 425bhp from its turbocharged straight-six, would need a new particulate filter in order to meet the requirements of the new Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP).

    The rehomologation process that follows such a change would prevent the updated M3 from making it to market before the next-generation 3 Series is revealed in October. As such, BMW has chosen to pull the car early and end its production alongside the rest of the 3 Series range, rather than keep it in production for longer the way it has with its forebears.

    No such scenario will be applicable for the M3’s two-door equivalent, the M4, because that car and its 4 Series siblings will remain on sale into the following year. The spokesman said that the M4 would go off sale “for a couple of months” while it is rehomologated, but that it would return to showrooms with its WLTP-certified filter.

    The filter will reduce the car’s output of nitrogen oxide to bring it below the maximum level required by the WLTP, but the spokesman said that performance would be unaffected. No other changes will be made to the tweaked M4, so it'll still be good for a claimed 4.3sec dash from zero to 62mph.

    The decision to retain the M4 will also have been driven by its popularity. In Britain, close to 2400 M4s were sold in 2017, 700 of which were convertibles. Just 1100 M3s were sold in the UK last year.

    The next M3 is due to be launched in 2020. It’s expected to use a reworked version of the current car’s engine that produces 456bhp - 21bhp more than today's M3 Competition Pack.

    Link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-m3-f80-be-axed-august-due-new-emissions-test

    Smiley


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    Oh well. These M cars are outclassed anyway IMO.

    These cars should have over 500 hp by now. A Ford Mustang has more power than these things.


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    RC:

    Truth is: There isn't much experience with such particulate filters in high performance cars and there aren't many petrol cars on the markets with such filters yet.

    [...]

    Example BMW: For a specific engine which gets a particulate filter, the power rises by 7 hp. Sounds good, right? Power goes up. BUT: To achieve this, the fuel pressure is increased from 200 bar to 350 bar, also meaning that thermodynamics need to be improved (like cooling and stuff). So the risk that such cars will not perform great under very warm weather conditions is quite high in my opinion.


    True,

    one of the few cars that have it is the Mercedes V8 engine in the pre-facelift S-class. I don't think that the increase in fuel pressure influences power that massively, yes it will affect the way the fuel is burned inside the cylinder but the main effect will be an even pulverization of the fuel and hence a better combustion. This will also lead to smaller particles, I assume. The additional filter might indeed have an effect on power and sound, that's fairly certain indeed.


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    How the filter will be cleaned? In a similar way to the diesel DPF?


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    Probably will clog because it doesn't work in real world driving as it should and you need to change the whole exhaust complex around it. In a similar way to the diesel DPF.

     


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Gauss:

    What power percentage does a car engine lose if refitted with a particulate filter?

    BMW told Autocar there is no impact on performance...

    Yeah, they always claim that but reality is often different. See VW, Audi, etc. and the software/hardware mods regarding the Diesel scandal in Germany. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    This is a case of le monde a l'envers. I thought extreme swings of the pendulum and extreme legislation were a speciality of us Americans. But now the thoughtful, sober European bureaucrats have acquired that pattern of behavior too. European governments have been choking their cities and the environment with noxious diesel fumes for decades thanks to stupid fuel pricing and tax regulations. And it took them decades before requiring catalytic converters on gasoline engines. Now suddenly, they swing to these extreme regulations? They must be trying to atone for their complicity in the VW and related emissions scandals. 

     


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    KMM:

    This is a case of le monde a l'envers. I thought extreme swings of the pendulum and extreme legislation were a speciality of us Americans. But now the thoughtful, sober European bureaucrats have acquired that pattern of behavior too. European governments have been choking their cities and the environment with noxious diesel fumes for decades thanks to stupid fuel pricing and tax regulations. And it took them decades before requiring catalytic converters on gasoline engines. Now suddenly, they swing to these extreme regulations? They must be trying to atone for their complicity in the VW and related emissions scandals. 

    The truth is: The car industry and politicians told people for years that (modern) Diesel cars are clean, that they help to keep CO2 output at bay and to reach new environmental goals, they made Diesel cheaper, the industry also did their part by making Diesel cars which were attractive (performance, sound, etc.) for customers and truth is, Diesel cars consume less. Usually a couple of liters per 100 km less than equally powered fuel cars, which is quite impressive.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Say good-bye to the BMW M3...

    Diesel engine is actually more efficient at extracting energy from a single unit of fuel than a gas engine.

    That energy is used in the form of power or range. 


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