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    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    TEE:

    Reminds me of that guy in his "latest" 911 getting killed on the autobahn because...Not sure that is helpful way of argumentation. Of course mordern cars are safer and hence people feel the need to drive faster than they are capable. But unfortunatley they are not 100%

    I understand all your views and preferences, I also take no issue with it - enjoy what you drive  kiss but lately it seems to me that every person that decides against PDK or AWD gets "lectured" from the broader group for "not getting it"  yes

    Will leave it at that wink

    I'm sure that the guy in his "latest" 911 was killed on the Autobahn because he lacked some driving skills Smiley but the guy in the 356 was killed because of outdated technology. Huge difference if you ask me. I got your point, even if I don't agree.

    The only "old" 911 I would go for would be the 964RS, this would be as old as it would get. Anything older is just not fun for me, it would be boring because I would limit myself with outdated technology. Older Porsches are nice for collections but not if it is the only car.

    I know, I know...different opinions, different tastes and different philosophies. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (April 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    For me, it is not old versus new, but old and new.  Here is a not so good pic of my original 1963 B coupe, which I have owned for more than 20 years.  It's not a safe drive--as RC says--and I save it for nice weekends.  But it is a living example of Porsche history, and of Porsche's clarity of vision and determination to be its own design, despite the allure of fashion and change.  It is a lovely car, and just as much a Porsche as the latest 991.  I am proud to be its custodian.

    And I am the first one to want the newest Porsche as well, and am only limited by the realities of family responsibility and finances.  My Cayenne Turbo S is an unbelievable car, and is proof positive that Porsche's commitment to engineering--from the early 1950s on--is a splendid and successful direction.red porsche paint chips 006.jpg


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

     
    sfo:

     No My current 981 spec:

    1. Carrara white
    2. Red roof
    3. Carrera red interior
    4. Painted roll over bars
    5. Model designation delete
    6. Wind deflector
    7. Manual gearbox
    8. 20” Carrera S wheels
    9. PASM
    10. PTV (with limited slip differential)
    11. Sport Chrono (with dynamic transmission mounts)
    12. Sports seats plus
    13. Rear park assist
    14. Auto dimming mirrors and rain sensor
    15. Electric folding mirrors
    16. Homelink
    17. Light design package
    18. Cruise control
    19. Heated seats
    20. BOSE
    21. 6 CD
    22. Sport Design S/W

    Am seriously toying with the idea of a ‘pure’ 981, and deleting 20” wheels, PASM, PTV and Sport Chrono, saving £4k.

    2 of these seem to be the new ‘performance’ options (i.e. PTV [only with PASM] and Sport Chrono) which are a ‘must have’ – am not sure that I will really notice these options in most of the driving I do (very few track days, mostly country roads and motorways), apart from more buttons. For me, it’s all 4 of nothing.

    Salesman suggested trading 6CD, PTV and Sport Chrono for PCM ..

    Spec needs to be finalised by end Feb, so have time to consider.

    you are going to miss the sport exhaust after that much time with an RS 60. sport chrono on a manual doesn't make a lot of sense imo unless you are tracking or something. in canada those options are closely priced.

    with the white i suggest the rear apron and side air vents get painted as well - really cleans up the look.

    i

     love those S wheels - did you look at the platinum paint against the white car?


    --

    2010 997.2 turbo cab 6 speed / 08 Cayenne GTS Manual -04 C4S sold 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    oh & PCM  - OEM navi etc stikes me as always worth it


    --

    2010 997.2 turbo cab 6 speed / 08 Cayenne GTS Manual - 08 RS 60 sold -04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    btw - did you notice you can now get the ventaliated seat option on the agressive sprot seats you ordered. my friends C4S has that otpion - sure was nice in the summer when i tried it a couple of times; saves you shirt!


    --

    2010 997.2 turbo cab 6 speed / 08 Cayenne GTS Manual - 08 RS 60 sold -04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    CPA4S:
     
    sfo:

    you are going to miss the sport exhaust i

     Sports exhaust is not available as an option, at least not yet on the Porsche GB configurator.


    --

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    Wonderbar:

    For me, it is not old versus new, but old and new.  Here is a not so good pic of my original 1963 B coupe, which I have owned for more than 20 years.  It's not a safe drive--as RC says--and I save it for nice weekends.  But it is a living example of Porsche history, and of Porsche's clarity of vision and determination to be its own design, despite the allure of fashion and change.  It is a lovely car, and just as much a Porsche as the latest 991.  I am proud to be its custodian.

    And I am the first one to want the newest Porsche as well, and am only limited by the realities of family responsibility and finances.  My Cayenne Turbo S is an unbelievable car, and is proof positive that Porsche's commitment to engineering--from the early 1950s on--is a splendid and successful direction.red porsche paint chips 006.jpg

    Old and new, I tried but it doesn't doesn't provide the kick I expected, actually not at all.

    I recently had the chance to drive a Lancia Delta HF Integrale, a car I really loved when I was young and a car I experienced many wonderful moments (rallye racing) with. What a disappointment, I had the car for one hour and returned it after 15 minutes. I was actually surprised how I could be that much in love with this car before.  Smiley

    Same with the Shelby Cobra, nice to look at but driving was horrible.

     

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (April 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    Wonderbar:

    For me, it is not old versus new, but old and new.  Here is a not so good pic of my original 1963 B coupe, which I have owned for more than 20 years.  It's not a safe drive--as RC says--and I save it for nice weekends.  But it is a living example of Porsche history, and of Porsche's clarity of vision and determination to be its own design, despite the allure of fashion and change.  It is a lovely car, and just as much a Porsche as the latest 991.  I am proud to be its custodian.

    And I am the first one to want the newest Porsche as well, and am only limited by the realities of family responsibility and finances.  My Cayenne Turbo S is an unbelievable car, and is proof positive that Porsche's commitment to engineering--from the early 1950s on--is a splendid and successful direction.red porsche paint chips 006.jpg

    I love your car Wonderbar. It takes me back to my childhood. My father had a super 90. Blue convertible with both soft and hard top. The soft top was a "normal" black canvas, but the hard top was white. It was a beautiful car!


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    What Wonderbar and RC are saying are both valid since you are focussing on totally different aspects.

    RC wants the latest tech, the best performance and safety that Porsche can provide. No compromise.

    Wonderbar sees old(er) Porsches as part of a living tradition. Sure, they cannot compare at all in terms of performance with modern cars but that's missing the point. Those older cars are all about experiencing the passion for the marque, enjoying its origins and feeling the philosophy thread its way from one decade to the next.

    Both entirely valid ways to enjoy Porsches IMO.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    easy_rider911:

    What Wonderbar and RC are saying are both valid since you are focussing on totally different aspects.

    RC wants the latest tech, the best performance and safety that Porsche can provide. No compromise.

    Wonderbar sees old(er) Porsches as part of a living tradition. Sure, they cannot compare at all in terms of performance with modern cars but that's missing the point. Those older cars are all about experiencing the passion for the marque, enjoying its origins and feeling the philosophy thread its way from one decade to the next.

    Both entirely valid ways to enjoy Porsches IMO.

    Very well said. Smiley I am willing to make compromises but only when it comes to enhancing performance (for example: I would always give priority to performance over comfort).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (April 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    CPA4S:

    btw - did you notice you can now get the ventaliated seat option on the agressive sprot seats you ordered. my friends C4S has that otpion - sure was nice in the summer when i tried it a couple of times; saves you shirt!

     PSE not available yet .. but hopefully the exhaust sound will be improved like it has on the 991 ...

    Waiting for PSE means summer will be over by the time I get 981S.

    Ventilated seats unnecessary in England, as our summers don't get that hot.

    PCM is far too expensive, especially as I hardly ever need sat nav.

    colour coding again delays the car, but I like the black bits ..

    not a fan of platinum silver.

     

     


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    sfo:

    Ventilated seats unnecessary in England, as our summers don't get that hot.

    Summers?!1328795606971yikes.gifSmileySmiley

     


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    easy_rider911:

    In terms of performance, PDK is more efficient and the laptimes don't lie so one can't argue with that. However, in terms of driving pleasure, I totally agree with you.  Like you, I love manual transmissions :) 

    ..and to pick up on the subject that you all hoped would finally die, I've grabbed the last comment on this thread on the subject to add something I heard on Top Gear E18/S1 last night (we get it a couple of weeks after the UK): JC made the comment in the Aventador whilst driving in Rome.  He said something along the lines of:

    "And these flappy paddle gearshifts - even the best of the them: they're great on the track and on the open road, but in traffic, they're just awful: it's gu-duh, gu-duh, gu-duh all the time!"

    Yes, I'm getting happy with my PDK more and more, but in city traffic, it's definately a bit gu-duh, gu-duh, gu-duh!.  

    Trust JC to have the  final word on the subject!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    The Aventador's is an automated manual not a DCT. Automated manuals are not refined at low speeds, whether they are fitted on a Ford Fiesta or a Lamborghini.

    BTW it's the second time you complain about the PDK (you also mentioned slow response to paddle input some time ago) which does not coincide with my own experience. Perhaps, you could ask your OPC to do a software update or some other type of adjustment?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    Budster:

    Yes, I'm getting happy with my PDK more and more, but in city traffic, it's definately a bit gu-duh, gu-duh, gu-duh!.  

    The Cayman S PDK is wonderfully smooth shifting in city traffic in "normal" or "sport"- with the very occasional exception where, you are approaching a road junction / roundabout as if you are going to stop, then see a gap and accelerate, there can be a moments delay (whilst the brain tries to second guess what's required) then an almighty CLUNK when it makes it's mind up and engages drive.

    Sport Plus auto mode is a definite no-no in normal traffic though, revs far too frantically but magnificent in manual mode with lightning fast shifts.

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S


    BTW it's the second time you complain about the PDK (you also mentioned slow response to paddle input some time ago) which does not coincide with my own experience. Perhaps, you could ask your OPC to do a software update or some other type of adjustment?

    the slow response was my fault - I was being too timid with it whilst getting used to it...  I recall that statement now!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    dreamcar:
    Budster:

    Yes, I'm getting happy with my PDK more and more, but in city traffic, it's definately a bit gu-duh, gu-duh, gu-duh!.  

    The Cayman S PDK is wonderfully smooth shifting in city traffic in "normal" or "sport"- with the very occasional exception where, you are approaching a road junction / roundabout as if you are going to stop, then see a gap and accelerate, there can be a moments delay (whilst the brain tries to second guess what's required) then an almighty CLUNK when it makes it's mind up and engages drive.

    maybe that's where I'm finding it clunky - and to be fair, one can't expect it to be seamless..!  I think it's still because I'm expecting the impossible and as you're not clutching in and manually shifting, you can be overly aware of what it's doing while you're waiting for it to do it..

    As I've said, I'm getting there - I suppose I'm just documenting my honest thoughts as I convert to the dark side...


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    Don't believe for one second that the manual transmission will add to value in resale. The opposite will be true. In a couple of years no one will want a manual unless it is priced right.


    --

     


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    reginos:

    The Aventador's is an automated manual not a DCT. Automated manuals are not refined at low speeds, whether they are fitted on a Ford Fiesta or a Lamborghini.

    BTW it's the second time you complain about the PDK (you also mentioned slow response to paddle input some time ago) which does not coincide with my own experience. Perhaps, you could ask your OPC to do a software update or some other type of adjustment?


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Incorrect. Automated manuals and DCT's have the same physics when starting from stopping. 

     


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    nberry:

    Don't believe for one second that the manual transmission will add to value in resale. The opposite will be true. In a couple of years no one will want a manual unless it is priced right.

    Fully agree, in normal cars or daily drivers. But there will always be a market for manual sportscars and especially roadsters. A Boxster is not about max performance, but about cruising on a sunny day in the mountains or the countryside. Even with speed limits of 80 km/h you can have a lot of fun without loosing your license on a narrow winding mountain road.

    For a trackcar or highspeed driving on the German motorways, PDK for sure.


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    KMM:
    reginos:

    The Aventador's is an automated manual not a DCT. Automated manuals are not refined at low speeds, whether they are fitted on a Ford Fiesta or a Lamborghini.

    BTW it's the second time you complain about the PDK (you also mentioned slow response to paddle input some time ago) which does not coincide with my own experience. Perhaps, you could ask your OPC to do a software update or some other type of adjustment?


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Incorrect. Automated manuals and DCT's have the same physics when starting from stopping. 

     


    "Starting from stopping"???

    Anyway, at low speeds as in urban driving the DCT shifts up and down the gears much smoother than automated manuals. At least this is the case with PDK and the Audi S-tronic that I have experience of.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    did I mention how much fun a manual in a sportscar is ? 


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    993Targa:
    nberry:

    Don't believe for one second that the manual transmission will add to value in resale. The opposite will be true. In a couple of years no one will want a manual unless it is priced right.

    Fully agree, in normal cars or daily drivers. But there will always be a market for manual sportscars and especially roadsters. A Boxster is not about max performance, but about cruising on a sunny day in the mountains or the countryside. Even with speed limits of 80 km/h you can have a lot of fun without loosing your license on a narrow winding mountain road.

    For a trackcar or highspeed driving on the German motorways, PDK for sure.

     Agree. Manuals cars a far from dead ..

    Anyway, my transmission choice is about what I want, not about residual value.


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    Spec is now frozen, and car is set for production in the next 2 weeks, with delivery in May 12 :party:

    Final spec (from "original" spec in early Feb 12: deleted 20" Carrera S wheels, PASM, PTV and Sport Chrono, and added PDLS):

    • Carrara white

    • Red roof

    • Carrera red interior

    • Roll over bars in carrara white

    • Model designation delete

    • PDLS (for the washers, with rangey and bendy lights!)

    • Wind deflector

    • Manual gearbox

    • Sports seats plus

    • Rear park assist

    • Auto dimming mirrors and rain sensor

    • Electric folding mirrors

    • Homelink

    • Light design package

    • Cruise control

    • Heated seats

    • BOSE

    • 6 CD

    • Sport Design S/W


     


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    BjoernB:

    did I mention how much fun a manual in a sportscar is ? 

    You must be reading a different manual than the one supplied by Porsche Smiley


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    sfo:

    Spec is now frozen, and car is set for production in the next 2 weeks, with delivery in May 12 :party:

    Final spec (from "original" spec in early Feb 12: deleted 20" Carrera S wheels, PASM, PTV and Sport Chrono, and added PDLS):

    • Carrara white

    • Red roof

    • Carrera red interior

    • Roll over bars in carrara white

    • Model designation delete

    • PDLS (for the washers, with rangey and bendy lights!)

    • Wind deflector

    • Manual gearbox

    • Sports seats plus

    • Rear park assist

    • Auto dimming mirrors and rain sensor

    • Electric folding mirrors

    • Homelink

    • Light design package

    • Cruise control

    • Heated seats

    • BOSE

    • 6 CD

    • Sport Design S/W


     

    Now this makes sense: Going for manual but deleting Sport Chrono. Smiley

    Sorry for being that blunt but it really doesn't make any sense at all. Smiley

    At least you have the heated seats and cruise control... Smiley

    Sorry but I had to make these mean comments after your manual is fun comments. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    Sport Chrono includes dynamic transmission mounts which to me is unnecessary, as the manual gearbox is not that heavy .. it's lighter than PDK (30kgs!!) that's for sure!

    I am also trying not to spend money on fripperies :)


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    sfo:

    Sport Chrono includes dynamic transmission mounts which to me is unnecessary, as the manual gearbox is not that heavy .. it's lighter than PDK (30kgs!!) that's for sure!

    I am also trying not to spend money on fripperies :)

    Ahh, now I get it: You worry about weight. Have to put yourself on a new diet and even more important: Why didn't you get PCCB then? Smiley

    On a more serious note: I get it. You want manual but you don't want a sporty setup. Not sure I can follow but hey, this is your car and you need to love it.  Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

    I am already very svelte for my advanced age ...

    PCCB is an extravagance too far, and unnecessary as standard front brakes are now 330mm instead of 315mm for 987, and car is 35kgs lighter. 981S will have the best standard Boxster brakes ever.

    My car isn't necessarily not sportily set up, it simply is 'pure' smiley


    Re: Goodbye RS60 Spyder ... Hello 981S

     would still get the Sports Crono - even in a pure car you want the best power delivery


    --
    Off enjoying my car...

     
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