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    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    bluelines:
    easy_rider911:

    I'm always wary when the State imposes severe punishment for non-violent crimes (eg motoring offences, parking offences etc) since lobby groups will always try to skew government policy and public opinion towards harsher punishment and the victim of such legislation is usually civil liberty. Why? Because road safety lobby groups always get favourable media coverage whereas no one sympathises with motorists and motoring organisations/associations. Also civil liberties lobby groups are more focussed on more serious issues like the death penalty, torture, miscarriages of justice etc rather than the State punishing motoring criminal offences too strictly.

    Agree.

    I guess it comes down to what defines a non-violent crime. Is driving a car 100km/h on a 30km/h road outside a school non-violent? Is shooting a gun in public in the air non-violent? What if the car hits a person? What if the bullet hits a person? Both actions were conscious by the offender, not meant to harm but the person were killed in both instances.

     

     

    kiss

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    JimFlat6:

    Swiss traffic law penalties are not equitable for all citizens and the harsher penalties are out of proportion to the offense. The personal vignettes that Cram has described are evidence that the laws there are imposing harm on a much higher order than just their financial and jail penalties. For a speeding offenses that do not involve injuries it is beyond draconian.

     

     

    kiss


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Gnil:

    The problem is not the fine . . The fine is actually the softer part of the law .  The part that is hard is the 2 years without licence + the 1 year jail sentence ( that is completely crazy ) even if it is not really applied .  

    Easy  :Making our country look like it is the worst place to live on this planet because of some ' details ' of our law  is very exaggerated and not fair at all.  Our place is certainly one of the best ones where you want to face justice .  This law was introduced because our people asked for it !!!  We have a direct democracy and the people could of opposed it , but they did not . The people wanted it .  (  but not me  )

    noone1 : Even if you run away, you have been caught . Our speed traps take photos . It is mandatory . So no escape there .

     

    And BTW , I just opened my post ......... and received  a speeding fine from the French police !!!!!!  Again . As I said, each time I travel to france I get caught !!! mail  That place is much worse then Switzerland indecision

    France is a real disaster these days. Each time I pass through France I get caught, worst of all, they don't need to prove your infraction, it's your word against the police's.

    About a month ago, I got stopped in Strasbourg for allegedly doing 181km/h in a 110km/h zone. I was absolutely positive that I was not speeding to that extent at that time, my passenger was there to testify (I was driving a BMW 116d, good luck to make that thing go 181km/h in heavy traffic). The police had no ears to my arguments, I was taken to the police station and questioned for 3 hours, parted with €750 and lost my license for 3 months (in France). Disgusted by all that, I've contacted a law firm in Strasbourg to contest the police's findings. After two weeks I received a letter from préfecture Bas-Rhin re-instating my right to drive in France and handing back my license. The €750 I can probably forget.

    It seems the police in France's right to stop and punish foreign drivers is completely arbitrary. Compared with their system, I'm happy with the situation in Switzerland although I strongly disagree with the severity of the punishment in Switzerland.


    --

    2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    JimFlat6:

    Swiss traffic law penalties are not equitable for all citizens and the harsher penalties are out of proportion to the offense. The personal vignettes that Cram has described are evidence that the laws there are imposing harm beyond financial and jail penalties. For a speeding offenses that do not involve injuries their effect can be beyond draconian. For habitual, reckless offenders it is one thing to jail them for awhile for public safety, for non habitual speeders the penalties should fit the circumstances.

    Don't drive twice the speed limit and you will never have an issue with this law. It is that simple Smiley

    I think they should relax it for the first time offenders, but make it harsher for repeating it. A one strike rule. Next time you speed beyond sanity you will be travelling by skateboard for the rest of your life.

     

     

     


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Driving in Europe used to be fun. Now it seems like its just one big, overzealous Gestapo police trap. And if it gets crazier with GPS speed nanny's built into cars, the automobile industry will see their business really harmed.


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    bluelines:Smiley

    Next time you speed beyond sanity you will be travelling by skateboard for the rest of your life.

     

     

    but be careful don't tune your Skateboard otherwise, you'll get in jail. i've seen this with a honda grass tractor. Smiley

     


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    JimFlat6:

    Driving in Europe used to be fun. Now it seems like its just one big, overzealous Gestapo police trap. And if it gets crazier with GPS speed nanny's built into cars, the automobile industry will see their business really harmed.

    Smiley I am actually more worried when I drive through the US, considering the fact that US cops usually do measurements from a moving car and these cars are very difficult to spot. I can watch my back (video surveillance cars) and I have an excellent vision sharpness (photo traps) but it is really difficult to spot a police car which already has "caught" you half a mile away while driving towards you. Smiley

    In Germany, the police needs a photo/video proof to nail you with a speed offense, in the US, the word of the police officer is usually the only thing he needs to nail you.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    The US is different state by state. Only a few states, like New Jersey allow for police to visually guestimate speed.

    Some of the biggest enforcement tools here aircraft and instant on radar and lidar - unlike many EU countries, most US states allow Lidar/radar detectors and there are mobile apps that use contributors to reveal locations of police traffic enforcement. 


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    JimFlat6:

    The US is different state by state. Only a few states, like New Jersey allow for police to visually guestimate speed.

    Some of the biggest enforcement tools here aircraft and instant on radar and lidar - unlike many EU countries, most US states allow Lidar/radar detectors and there are mobile apps that use contributors to reveal locations of police traffic enforcement. 

    In Germany, the police needs a photo(!) to nail you. No photo, no money. I simplified this a little bit but basically, this is how it works. Even when the police nails you with a laser gun, there is a video/image recording feature built-in. 

    Another method is a video surveillance car which follows you for a short moment, establishing the speed you were driving at.

    Last but not least, there is another method used only in 30 kph or lower speed limit zones. They basically video record all the traffic and an automated software analyzes the videos and establishes the speed of each car.

    All these systems can be evaded by closely paying attention while driving. Only exception maybe: The Laser trap but they usually only use that on country roads where they can stop and lecture you immediately. 

    I'm not worried about speed traps in Germany, I usually spot them in time. Same goes to Italy or even Austria, when you pay attention, you can usually "evade" them.

    However, whoever drives at double the legal speed, sometimes even in a city or in tight urban areas, deserves to loose his license. Yesterday, a public transportation bus(!) was doing at least 60 kph in a very tight(!) 30 kph zone in my neighborhood. I called the police and today they called me back, thanking me. The driver was drunk. Just saying...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    In the US I use a Valentine One for the issues RC describes.  It is very effective and allows you to pay more attention to all the other speed traps and of course traffic.  I have used this radar detector for years and I swear by it 90% of the time.  For complete protection get a Uniden Beartracker scanner - not certain if they still make them.  It picks up the transponder signal in the police car anytime the radio is on and gives you a distance countdown to the police car from miles away.  Also it lets you listen to their conversations so you can hear what they are doing ahead of you.  Too much information for city driving though since you are always within 5 miles of some police car.  You could go overboard and buy a jammer but I would never do that since it may cause you to get pulled over for using it against a police trap vs. photo radar.


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    JimFlat6:

    Driving in Europe used to be fun. Now it seems like its just one big, overzealous Gestapo police trap. And if it gets crazier with GPS speed nanny's built into cars, the automobile industry will see their business really harmed.

    Well, when comes to fun it is pretty much the same all over the world. In the US you cannot order a GT3 with bucket seats, in Canada they confiscate your car for traffic offences and in Hong Kong you have insane car purchase taxes. Just to give a few examples.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    i Have find out that in switzerland now,  the police equiped their vehicules  ( sorry don't know really the world in english) with a machine that reads your nummer plate and show them if the car is a stolen car or if the owner is a criminal due to speed. If yes, they stop you and you'll get some real problems..

    Happen to a friend of me that borrow my cayenne for the day. He passed a police car  with normal speed, the police car put himself aside. As they saw that it wasn't me, they let him go. It's just to tell you, that now, with the new law, it's better not to take the car one meter or to go somewhere.  As you are under a license punishment. If so, they want joke with that.

    i think that France is starting to do something similar. they going after drivers that have lost there points and even driving. this just for the reason not lose their jobs.


    --

    Audi TT, Cayenne S, Go kart Birrel, John Deer


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    ANPR has been in use in the UK for ages - almost all patrol cars have them and a friend of mine actually installed the cameras on every entry\exit road in his town to track wrong-uns! (he was the first to do this and had to back down after  complaints from privacy advocates)

    What's concerning is the impact crap data has on individuals. It is not mandatory to carry documentation with you in the UK but very advisable if you drive a car......


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - 120 Cab - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    ANPR is a good thing - especially when they are using it to get criminals / uninsured drivers off the road.

    Interesting thread, and interesting to read a lot of different opinions.

    What has always startled me though, is that Germany creates a very funny situation in Europe. If you would drive 200 km/h near the German border in Netherlands, France, Switzerland or Austria, you'll be condemned as a reckless murderer not caring about your fellow motorists, a total maniac. 5km further, you can pass the German cops at 270 km/h and not even get a stare. Now this has always been explained that 'german motorists are used to those speeds' and other - in my opinion - non-arguments. Fact of the matter is that speed does not - I repeat, does not - kill. Another fact is that people's attitude will not just change 5km ahead, yet on the one side you'll lose your license and possible your car, and on the German side (and often it is immediately derestricted after the border) you'll be perfectly fine.

    The culprit is not paying attention, but of course, that is much harder to verify by legal forces. I'm sad to say that since I am forced to drive a lot slower I am constantly busy with other things. On my phone, watching TV, eating, drinking, talking, phoning etc. And when I'm driving a bit faster I'm only looking for the wrong things: speed camera's, hidden cops, undercover cop cars etc. Only in Germany am I truly focused on the driving itself.

    On top of that, in an age where variable speedlimits are technically a possibility (I LOVE that system in Germany where it changes according to density of the traffic), a flat maximum speedlimit is truly utter nonsense. Another thing that bothers me is the current 'race' to lower speeds. Everytime the argument is used that lower speeds will mean less deaths. Then why don't we just all drive at 20 km/h? I'm sure we'll eliminate all deaths, so surely that must be a fantastic idea? yes

    The situation in the W-European countries has drastically changed in the past 5 years IMO, and any fun of driving on public roads is slowly being eliminated. It doesn't even have to involve speed! A small acceleration, a bit of sound - it's all being regarding as morally not done by a lot of people nowadays. Only in eastern Europe it is still possibly to have a go. Each time I'm in Poland, Hungary etc I love it, their whole attitude is different and they generally pay attention when driving, move over without any drama and policing is much more lenient.

    I am driving as much as I can since I expect it only to become worse.


    --

    M3 CSL / Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Touring / RS2 Avant / GT3RS Kermit


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    By the way - isn't that ridiculous highway speedlimit in the US still dating from the oil embargo in the seventies as a method of saving gas? Perhaps time to roll it back, you guys are pumping more oil on a daily basis than the Saudi's and Russians combined nowadays!


    --

    M3 CSL / Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Touring / RS2 Avant / GT3RS Kermit


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Speeding tickets are a cash cow for US regional governments, why would they kill the golden goose?

     


    --

     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

     The US has no regional governments, we do have state governments and the federal government. The speed limit on US "freeways" is arbitrarily set for the states by the Federal Government. If states dare to defy that and change it, they risk losing their part of the Federal gas tax receipts for hi way funds. Nevada never had a daytime speed limit until the Feds imposed one on them and when Montana said FU and went back to no day time speed limit the Feds threatened to take their money away.  There is some momentum for upping the speed limit in some areas in some states, but with the specter of Federal blackmail its not easy to do except if it is a private toll road. We actually need a 100mph plus limit in many areas where even 120mph can feel slow.. Just try driving across Nebraska, it goes on forever, flat straight and never ending. The US Supreme court soon hear a court case that will finally decide just how much power the Feds can usurp from the states. In success, that case could clear the way for states setting their own speed limits without Federal interference.


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    JimFlat6:

    If you need a drivers license, travel to the US and get a California State Drivers License. No immigration or visa documents are required for any foreigner to get a drivers license there. A Passport or National ID card from any country will do, even a newly proclaimed Caliphate! Stay if you want to, millions of others have.

    Best tip given in a long time . I' ll keep it in my books Smiley

    Friends moved to Florida lately . There Swiss driver's license was not accepted so they had to redo their driving license . What a joke : For the theory you could try it as many times as you wanted ( in a row ) until you got it . The only thing was to pay 10$ after 2 tries . The practice was on a parking lot !!!!! 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    RC:
     I have an excellent vision sharpness (photo traps) 

    How much again ? Smiley SmileySmileySmiley  Sorry,  I could not keep my mouth shut  Smiley  Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Gnil:
    RC:
     I have an excellent vision sharpness (photo traps) 

    How much again ? Smiley SmileySmileySmiley  Sorry,  I could not keep my mouth shut  Smiley  Smiley

    Touché! Smiley angry

    By the way, I was at an ophthalmologist two weeks ago and they were impressed by my clearness of vision. I was quite surprised. Not many people have this clearness apparently. I challenge you for stare duel RC Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    bluelines:
    Gnil:
    RC:
     I have an excellent vision sharpness (photo traps) 

    How much again ? Smiley SmileySmileySmiley  Sorry,  I could not keep my mouth shut  Smiley  Smiley

    Touché! Smiley angry

    By the way, I was at an ophthalmologist two weeks ago and they were impressed by my clearness of vision. I was quite surprised. Not many people have this clearness apparently. I challenge you for stare duel RC Smiley

    How much bluelines, how much ? Smiley   If I recall correctly RC is at 175 % , I am at 150 % 

    This is better then a p... contest, at our ages actually we have no chance at the later  Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    At our ages?! 1405253933934לאלא.gif Pfff!

    I did not get a percentage. I was probably off the scale so they could not give me one.

     

     

     


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    bluelines:

    I did not get a percentage. 

     

     

    How boring ..... we want percentage !!! Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Gnil:
    bluelines:

    I did not get a percentage. 

     

     

    How boring ..... we want percentage !!! Smiley

     

    I win. I think I am at -200% from staring at 918 pictures on the internet all year. Everything I looked at has a 918 silhouette to it.


    --

     


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    Whoopsy:
    Gnil:
    bluelines:

    I did not get a percentage. 

     

     

    How boring ..... we want percentage !!! Smiley

     

    I win. I think I am at -200% from staring at 918 pictures on the internet all year. Everything I looked at has a 918 silhouette to it.

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    bluelines:
    Gnil:
    RC:
     I have an excellent vision sharpness (photo traps) 

    How much again ? Smiley SmileySmileySmiley  Sorry,  I could not keep my mouth shut  Smiley  Smiley

    Touché! Smiley angry

    By the way, I was at an ophthalmologist two weeks ago and they were impressed by my clearness of vision. I was quite surprised. Not many people have this clearness apparently. I challenge you for stare duel RC Smiley

    Not easy, believe me. For my age (49), the vision acuity is record high. Smiley I could still work as an army sniper. Smiley

    Living proof: I never get caught by radar or laser traps, not even video (I can spot the video cameras next to the road from very far away). Maybe I should start working in a circus...super vision sharpness man. Smiley

    However...when I need to read a magazine, I need reading glasses. Otherwise I'm lost. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Who would love to have his Turbo S under sequester?

    angryGotcha...

    Schweiz konfisziert deutschen Luxus-Raser. 215 statt 120 km/h
     
     
    Blueflame
     

     
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