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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    tso:
    schmoell:
    RC:

    I will very likely be in Hockenheim with the Taycan this autumn, will be interesting what I think about this car, especially since I am (almost) completely anti-EV. I will give the Taycan a chance though, you will get an honest opinion about this car (from my combustion engine lover perspective). If anyone is interested that is... 

    I am

    Me too. Specially interested to hear if you detect any lag Smiley

    Interested to know if you can detect... the massive weight! :)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    boytronic:
    tso:
    schmoell:
    RC:

    I will very likely be in Hockenheim with the Taycan this autumn, will be interesting what I think about this car, especially since I am (almost) completely anti-EV. I will give the Taycan a chance though, you will get an honest opinion about this car (from my combustion engine lover perspective). If anyone is interested that is... 

    I am

    Me too. Specially interested to hear if you detect any lag Smiley

    Interested to know if you can detect... the massive weight! :)

    This is actually one of the things I am very interested in...handling. The Tesla P100D I drove two years ago was pretty comfy and felt heavy, not exactly what I would call a sports sedan. My E63 S feels way sportier...I mean on a different level. 

    So yes, I am curious about the Taycan, I am curious what Porsche did in that short time they had and I am curious if they were able to transfer their chassis "magic" (Panamera Turbo/S) to the Taycan.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/taycan/first-drives/porsche-taycan-2020-review

     

    "If you want to enjoy driving a Porsche more than this, you need one with its engine behind the driver."

    A very big statement!

    And another very positive review:

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/taycan/first-drives/porsche-taycan-turbo-s-2020-review

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    tso:
    schmoell:
    RC:

    I will very likely be in Hockenheim with the Taycan this autumn, will be interesting what I think about this car, especially since I am (almost) completely anti-EV. I will give the Taycan a chance though, you will get an honest opinion about this car (from my combustion engine lover perspective). If anyone is interested that is... 

    I am

    Me too. Specially interested to hear if you detect any lag Smiley

    Very curious as well as I regard your opinion on handling characteristics as well as your opinion about an electric vehicle from the viewpoint of a driving enthusiast.

    Stylistically I find the Porsche stunning, it features so many typical Porsche traits but in an entirely new shareable configuration. Unlike the initial Cayenne and Panamera iterations, the car is even beautiful from the start.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Very reasonable and informative video of JWW, also about the comparison to Tesla´s models.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Lack of a cover / shade / instrument cowl is starting to grate when I watch this. Assume there is a reflection problem and not sure why theywent for the „clean“ look


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    996FourEss:

    Lack of a cover / shade / instrument cowl is starting to grate when I watch this. Assume there is a reflection problem and not sure why theywent for the „clean“ look

    Porsche, being Porsche, is said to have developed a low glare solution for the IP using special coatings and mountings that are off-vertical.   Mercedes uses displays without cowls that are significantly larger and more flat than Porsche without many issues relating to glare. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Not quite a ‘Ring comparison and not quite side-by-side; however, a useful measure of accelerative might: https://insideevs.com/news/376897/video-porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-s/
     

    Porsche is in a different league and don’t forget that Tesla uses the one foot rollout convention when quoting 0-60 mph times.  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Not sue if this has been posted already:

    https://insideevs.com/news/376897/video-porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-s/


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:

    Not sue if this has been posted already:

    https://insideevs.com/news/376897/video-porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-s/

    Look at the post directly above yours; however, redundancy is good with this video.  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Speedo readings aren't much worth, especially since, from my experience, European cars usually have a 10-20 kph speedo error in higher speed ranges and US cars...none (seriously) or very little.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:

    Speedo readings aren't much worth, especially since, from my experience, European cars usually have a 10-20 kph speedo error in higher speed ranges and US cars...none (seriously) or very little.

    Fair enough, but also recall that the recent video clip of the Taycan accelerating away from the Tesla in a sprint.  This will be repeat many times of the next few months so there will be more definitive evidence. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:

    Speedo readings aren't much worth, especially since, from my experience, European cars usually have a 10-20 kph speedo error in higher speed ranges and US cars...none (seriously) or very little.

    Porsche is more like 2%, max 3%, though (on their current cars) Smiley

    I.e. if this also applies to the Taycan the difference in acceleration seems to be significant.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Speedo readings aren't much worth, especially since, from my experience, European cars usually have a 10-20 kph speedo error in higher speed ranges and US cars...none (seriously) or very little.

    Porsche is more like 2%, max 3%, though (on their current cars) Smiley

    I.e. if this also applies to the Taycan the difference in acceleration seems to be significant.

    991.2 Carrera GTS had 16 kph at 300 kph. 😉


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Speedo readings aren't much worth, especially since, from my experience, European cars usually have a 10-20 kph speedo error in higher speed ranges and US cars...none (seriously) or very little.

    Porsche is more like 2%, max 3%, though (on their current cars) Smiley

    I.e. if this also applies to the Taycan the difference in acceleration seems to be significant.

    991.2 Carrera GTS had 16 kph at 300 kph. 😉

    One also needs put the error potential in the context of the acceleration times.  The Taycan, via the video, did the 0-250 km/h dash in 11.53 seconds while it took the Tesla Model S 22.52 seconds across the same velocity range.  Even factoring any reasonable speedometer error, the Taycan is quicker.  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Speedo readings aren't much worth, especially since, from my experience, European cars usually have a 10-20 kph speedo error in higher speed ranges and US cars...none (seriously) or very little.

    Porsche is more like 2%, max 3%, though (on their current cars) Smiley

    I.e. if this also applies to the Taycan the difference in acceleration seems to be significant.

    991.2 Carrera GTS had 16 kph at 300 kph. 😉

    That would be 5%... Quite a lot. turbo s has 3% at 200kph, i.e. 206kph Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    I didn't say the Taycan is slow but we need to keep a certain perspective. Also, it was a factory car and I guess EVs are much more "suitable" for "cheating" than even turbo charged cars. A bit of changed software programming here and there, a bit more power for a short time and the performance rises substantially. We need to wait for the reviews done by car magazines and real life driving experiences.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:

    I didn't say the Taycan is slow but we need to keep a certain perspective. Also, it was a factory car and I guess EVs are much more "suitable" for "cheating" than even turbo charged cars. A bit of changed software programming here and there, a bit more power for a short time and the performance rises substantially. We need to wait for the reviews done by car magazines and real life driving experiences.

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    .....the manufacturer could also remove batteries to save considerable weight.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:

    I didn't say the Taycan is slow but we need to keep a certain perspective. Also, it was a factory car and I guess EVs are much more "suitable" for "cheating" than even turbo charged cars. A bit of changed software programming here and there, a bit more power for a short time and the performance rises substantially. We need to wait for the reviews done by car magazines and real life driving experiences.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    A bit of rubbish to suggest that Porsche is cheating with its cars to provide better performance data.   


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    I didn't say the Taycan is slow but we need to keep a certain perspective. Also, it was a factory car and I guess EVs are much more "suitable" for "cheating" than even turbo charged cars. A bit of changed software programming here and there, a bit more power for a short time and the performance rises substantially. We need to wait for the reviews done by car magazines and real life driving experiences.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    A bit of rubbish to suggest that Porsche is cheating with its cars to provide better performance data.   

    When it comes to record runs, everyone is cheating in a way or another. None of the cars is stock, sorry to say that. Not even my Performante (different seats, roll cage, whatever).

    What I'm trying to say: Those numbers we saw so far are impressive but we need to wait for the final product and see what kind of numbers car magazines and reviews achieve.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    eMMC flash failure...now this is going to be fun for some Tesla owners...

    https://twitter.com/wk057/status/1182047438577774593

    Solution would be simple...turning off logging. They just don't seem to care.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    I didn't say the Taycan is slow but we need to keep a certain perspective. Also, it was a factory car and I guess EVs are much more "suitable" for "cheating" than even turbo charged cars. A bit of changed software programming here and there, a bit more power for a short time and the performance rises substantially. We need to wait for the reviews done by car magazines and real life driving experiences.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    A bit of rubbish to suggest that Porsche is cheating with its cars to provide better performance data.   

    When it comes to record runs, everyone is cheating in a way or another. None of the cars is stock, sorry to say that. Not even my Performante (different seats, roll cage, whatever).

    What I'm trying to say: Those numbers we saw so far are impressive but we need to wait for the final product and see what kind of numbers car magazines and reviews achieve.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    That's quite a shift from insinuating that Porsche is providing the media with ringer Taycans that include modified software to safety-related devices on its test vehicles at the Nürburgring.  If anything, the test vehicles weigh more than the production vehicles.  Porsche also has stated that the car that set the lap time at the Nürburgring is the same vehicle that set the 24 hour distance record for an EV at Nardo.  The only change made from Nardo to Nürburgring was new tires.   


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Surprised that a variant of this article, originally posted on Auto Motor und Sport, was not posted before.  Seems like the Nürburgring is a bit more difficult for Tesla to navigate than Musk expected.  That wing on the blue Model S prototype is more than ridiculous.   The Tesla cult base has always touted the company's aerodynamic expertise through its application of computational fluid dynamics; however, the addition of that wing and diffusor suggest that the company is literally winging it, pun intended, when exploring aerodynamics and handling on the fabled race circuit.  

     

    Tesla Model S Plaid prototype reportedly crashed on race track, new spoiler spotted

    Fred Lambert

    A Tesla Model S Plaid prototype has reportedly crashed on the Nürburgring race track in the latest round of testing and the automaker has been testing different configurations of its upcoming new top performance Model S.

    As we previously reported, following the recent launch of the Porsche Taycan, Tesla CEO Elon Musk appears to be on a mission to show that Tesla’s vehicles are still the highest-performing EVs available today.

    Last month, he said that Tesla would bring a Model S to the Nürburgring race track — right after Porsche established a new 4-door electric car record at the track.

    However, in the following days, Tesla announced a Model S with a 3-motor “Plaid powertrain” and new a “chassis prototype.”

    Musk also said that Tesla had a new 7-seater Model S prototype at the Nürburgring racetrack, and it seems like the track testing could simply be about testing new versions of Tesla’s Model S and the new 3-motor “Plaid Powertrain” instead of just going after the Taycan.

    Either way, they were still going after a record.

    A witness said that Tesla’s “Plaid” Model S already crushed the Porsche Taycan’s Nürburgring time, which Tesla confirmed in their own testing, but the time hasn’t been made official by the track.

    Tesla said that it would be making improvements and head back in October.

    Sure enough, the updated Model S Plaid prototypes were spotted there last week as we saw some prototypes try some hot laps at the Nürburgring racetrack.

    Now a new report from Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport looked into Tesla’s latest testing effort at the track and they reported that the red Model S Plaid prototype driven by Thomas Mutsch, a German racecar driver, crashed into the guardrail.

    The driver was reportedly unhurt.

    Here’s the red Model S Plaid prototype (picture via Auto Motor und Sport):

    According to the publication, Tesla has been moving from one shop to another around the ring to modify the prototypes and test new configurations.

    In the sightings last week, we already saw some new modifications, but they have now added a giant spoiler (pictures via Auto Motor und Sport):

    Screen Shot 2019-10-23 at 12.54.11 PM

    Tesla Model S plaid prototype spoiler

    There have been complaints that Tesla has been claiming record times by using some modifications that will never go into production, but we actually still don’t know what configuration Tesla plans to use to officially attempt a record.

    It could only be benchmarking different mods at this point.

    To reassure people, Tesla said that it thinks the production version of the Plaid Model S will be even better than the prototypes.

    Last month, Musk said that the Tesla Model S with a “Plaid” powertrain and new rear-facing seats is coming in Oct/Nov 2020.

    After the most recent testing, now the CEO says that it is coming next summer.

    The next-gen Roadster is expected to also get Tesla’s new 3-motor Plaid powertrain, but it should come after the new version of the Model S.

    Electrek’s Take

    The news is already making the rounds, but it’s important to keep in mind that it’s normal to crash or have a problem with a prototype during testing.

    That’s why they are doing the tests on a race track – so the car can be pushed to its limits and if something bad happens, it’s in a controlled environment that limits the chances of having someone hurt.

    As for the modifications, I have to admit that they are getting pretty crazy.

    I have to think that they are only doing some benchmarking with those because unless they are planning to offer a really niche race track package, I doubt Tesla will offer those specific configurations as factory options.

    What do you think? Let us know in the comment section below.

    Subscribe to Electrek on YouTube for exclusive videos and subscribe to the podcast.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Just when you thought the Tesla- Nurburgring soap opera couldn't get more ridiculous and subreal, now that wing on a Model S   ROTFLOL!


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:

    Just when you thought the Tesla- Nurburgring soap opera couldn't get more ridiculous and subreal, now that wing on a Model S   ROTFLOL!

    Wait until the close of the markets this evening in the States, when Tesla announces its earnings for Q3 19.  Many analysts are hinting that Tesla's revenue actually declined because of the per unit price costs to bolster sales.  Of course, instead of focusing on the critical financial measures, Musk is fixated on outdoing Porsche at the Nürburgring, as if this would solve the structural and management issues at the company.  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Tesla Model S P100D-RSR Weissach package in PTS Ludicrous Blue


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Love the wing, it really gives the car something indecision mail


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    1571901099435tesla.png


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Rear downforce calibration? I guess at teslarati they are so clueless about driving cars that they will gobble that bs right up. so the front snowplow spoiler is for front downforce "calibration", the semislick tires are for traction calibration, the lowrider springs are for suspensions calibration, and the empty interior is for weight distribution calibration?  what is left that will actually make it into the production version and is not just for this media circus at the Ring?


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:

    1571901099435tesla.png

    Smiley the big rear wing would make it cool actually. then you will have to strip the interior and reduce the weight badly and call it a Project 8 bis Smiley but oh wait that is not going to happen here. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


     
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