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    The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Picked up the dreaded slow puncture three days ago.  Wouldn't have known without TPMS - I check my tyre pressures every time I start the car and this time the rear off-side was 8 psi down on normal!  So I went to a local service station and pumped it back up to normal.  From driving the car I honestly wouldn't have realised there was a problem!  Next day the tyre was again down 8 psi so I knew there definitely was a problem..Smiley

    Next I called my usual independant tyre dealer, who has been supplying and fitting my tyres for over 35 years. 

    Here's the crunch - he said there was no way he could help me, on this occasion, as my GTS has centre locking wheels and requires special tooling which he doesn't have!

    So I'm off to an OPC and they discover a large nail lodged in the tyre, with no chance of a repair, so it's a new tyre which they can get the following day..  I must say that Chester OPC were extremely efficient and accommodating - they fitted the new tyre yesterday, re-set the sensor, checked the balance and alignment and threw in a full inside & ouside valet... all in two hours.

    The total price was £378.73 (incl. vat)

    Moral is - if you use an independant tyre supplier, make sure they can deal with centre-locking wheels before you choose that feature as an option!!

    The upside is I've discovered an OPC (Chester) which is much closer for me than where I've purchased my cars (Wilmslow) who have upped their game considerably since the last time I visited them..Smiley  


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    You see, there's always a silver lining.

    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    If you decide to keep the car for a while, just buy the tools.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2011 Panamera 4


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Targa Tim:

    If you decide to keep the car for a while, just buy the tools.

     

    For the price of the tool (it is actually one), you can get two new tires. Not really worth it. 

    As to independent tire dealers: I stopped using them a long time ago for various reasons, especially since I switched to Porsche.

    1. Most independent tire dealers don't seem to have a clue about N tires and/or Porsche's explicit warning, that Z (or Y) rated tires and/or tires larger than 18'' shouldn't be switched (for example removing the summer tires from the rims and mounting winter tires on the same rims and then again mounting the summer tires...and so on). There is a serious risk of damaging the tires from the inside, resulting in great danger for the driver.

    2. You can get almost the same deal an independent tire dealer gives you from the official Porsche dealer. I have a special arrangement and I know that other Porsche owners have a similar arrangment too, it is possible and you should talk to your official Porsche dealer about it. Even if the tire costs 40 or 50 bucks more, I would still stick with my Porsche dealer for the reason(s) I mentioned.

    3. There are independent tire dealers who repair (!) punctured Z (Y) rated tires, which is in clear violation of the OEM specs. Such dealers can't be trusted. As far as I know, even V and W tires aren't allowed to be "repaired". One of course could argue that in speed limited countries, this may not be as important as in Germany for example but some excessive track racing with some high speed parts, could already be a serious problem.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    I heard from a friend yesterday (a long-time Porsche and Ferrari owner) that the TPMS system in his Ferrari 575M had to be replaced (at $400 PER WHEEL!) recently - and that these units don't last forever as they are powered by a self contained battery unit... Any truth in this - at least from a Porsche perspective..?


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    One reason I didn't take the GT2RS - centre locks = total PIA for a well used road car


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    In response Christian, that is all good advice..kiss

    However,  just a couple of points...  The independant dealer I mentioned is a personal friend and a one-man operation as was his father before him.  No risk of poor advice from him..

    What do you mean by "special arrangement with your dealer" ?  I've contacted my dealer and the only thing they can think of is taking out tyre insurance, but it has to be done at the time of purchasing the car... Is that what you're referring to?  

    My main reason for posting was to (1) Praise the TPMS for prompt alert and (2) Warn about the complications with centre-locking wheels..

     

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Budster:


    I heard from a friend yesterday (a long-time Porsche and Ferrari owner) that the TPMS system in his Ferrari 575M had to be replaced (at $400 PER WHEEL!) recently - and that these units don't last forever as they are powered by a self contained battery unit... Any truth in this - at least from a Porsche perspective..?


    ,



    Correct, expect about 5-6 years life span for the 997's TPMS sensors, then they will need replacement since the batteries cannot be replaced as they are built into the sensor and you would have to break them to access the batteries. I guess this is done to diminish posible issues with poor contact or the like given that they spin inside the wheel.

    But its less than 400 each, I had to replace mine a couple of months ago but I have forgotten how much it was already, maybe 600 euros total... still totally worth it.

    I believe that they will last longuer in the 991.
    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    They cost some 100 Euro + VAT each. Add the cost of removing and refitting tyres. So it's best if they are replaced to coincide with a tyre change, around the 5 five year life expectancy of the sensors.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Carlos from Spain:
    Correct, expect about 5-6 years life span for the 997's TPMS sensors, then they will need replacement since the batteries cannot be replaced as they are built into the sensor and you would have to break them to access the batteries. I guess this is done to diminish posible issues with poor contact or the like given that they spin inside the wheel.
     

    Another good argument for replacing your Porsche in less than 5 years.  Smiley


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    TPS - 600 for the replacement? Again - Porsche is asking overprice for a part which is probably more than 5 - 10 € a piece. 

     


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Lars997:


    TPS - 600 for the replacement? Again - Porsche is asking overprice for a part which is probably more than 5 - 10 € a piece. 



     




    Agree 100%, in fact the company that makes the sensors for Porsche also makes them for other brands, AUDI for one, and the same exact sensors are cheaper for those other models. I don't remember the name of the sensors but I can look it up.
    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    I suppose ignorance is no defence, and safety has no price, but I wonder how many people realize that TPMS have a limited lifespan..?

    I didn't tick the box and have kinda regretted it since, as I accept that it's an excellent step forward in safety, probably up there with the inertia seat belt. But at $1000 here in SA, and given that I've made do without it up until now, I'm just going to have to continue with the old-world precautions as to tyre safety, and to be fair, tyres themselves have come a long way too.

    So mixed feelings I suppose...But time to move on....

    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Way too overpriced there is SAheart, that is a robbery, especially for a safety item that should be standard equipment like the airbags. But still I would get them... I have had the same experience John has related in this thread, except my tire was almost flat and was about to hit the highway for a 200mile round trip, would of ended up on the side of the highway or worse if it were not for the TPMS. You just cannot tell from the handling initially nor visual inspection, the profile is so low nowadays and the tire walls so stiff that there is little evidence save for checking the pressures with a gauge and your not going to do that everytime you take the car out. Didn't not know the sensors would last only 6 years but it seems that the newer ones fitted on Cayenne now for example last 10 years now (and are cheaper), so the ones on the 991 will probably last the lifetime of the car or for the initial owner at least.

    BTW, the sensors that the 997 use is made by Beru, model RDE001 I believe. Audi also fits them among others. They are much cheaper if you buy them directly I guess but I did not want the hassle.


    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Hi Carlos - what are the symptoms when the sensors need replacing... does the reading just go blank, i.e. no figures at all, or do they simply become inaccurate?  As you've just changed yours you are probably the best person to ask..

    I'm thinking that Easy could be nearing the point where he may need to consider this?

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Can the system be retro-fitted (i.e. the in-dash hardware/software), or is it only the in-type elements that can be replaced at end of life?

    Perhaps I could fit when the time comes for new tyres..? 


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    John H:

    Hi Carlos - what are the symptoms when the sensors need replacing... does the reading just go blank, i.e. no figures at all, or do they simply become inaccurate?  As you've just changed yours you are probably the best person to ask..

    The first symptoms is that when you start the car, one or more sensors take a longuer time to start giving out the tire pressures, and eventually they will start to loose connection with the Control Unit on and off while driving, butAFAIK when they displayed the pressures they were correct, i.e. they did not loose any accuracy Smiley

    Mines lasted 6 years and 130,000km of driving so not too bad, but I know of others that lasted 5 years for example.


    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Budster:

    Can the system be retro-fitted (i.e. the in-dash hardware/software), or is it only the in-type elements that can be replaced at end of life?

    Perhaps I could fit when the time comes for new tyres..? 

    TPMS is not something easily retrofited, it consists not only of the sensors in the wheels but also the 4 receptor antenae and  control unit, and I suppose some tweeking in the OBC. AFAIK its not something that is offreed as a retrofit by Porsche, probably posible but probably very expensive, but you could install an aftermarket system though, worth to look into it.


    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Carlos from Spain:

    But its less than 400 each, I had to replace mine a couple of months ago but I have forgotten how much it was already, maybe 600 euros total... still totally worth it.
     

    I just had to replace mine on my 2005 Carrera GT.  Don't ask.


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    W8MM:
    Carlos from Spain:

    But its less than 400 each, I had to replace mine a couple of months ago but I have forgotten how much it was already, maybe 600 euros total... still totally worth it.
     

    I just had to replace mine on my 2005 Carrera GT.  Don't ask.

    OK I won't Smiley but I'm curious, is there a technical reason why they would be more expensive for the CarreraGT? Smiley


    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    John H:
    I'm thinking that Easy could be nearing the point where he may need to consider this?

     

    That reminds me, the battery lasts 5 year more or less and when it dies, it dies, many times like in my case, it dies suddently without any early warning, on day the car starts on the first turn, the next day its dead. So I recomend changing the battery when it turns 5 years old just in case, because you may need to get somewere quick one day and find the battery is dead. In my case it lasted almost 6 years if I remember correctly, but I drive the car regularly and usually for longer drives so that type of use improves battery life.


    --


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    John H:

    What do you mean by "special arrangement with your dealer" ?  I've contacted my dealer and the only thing they can think of is taking out tyre insurance, but it has to be done at the time of purchasing the car... Is that what you're referring to?

    My main reason for posting was to (1) Praise the TPMS for prompt alert and (2) Warn about the complications with centre-locking wheels..

     

     

     

    By "special arrangement with my dealer" I meant that he matches the price tag of local tire dealers.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    I bought N rated tyres on the internet (a reputable company), and had them delivered to my OPC who then fitted them.  This was fractionally cheaper than the local tyre dealer. 


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Budster:


    I heard from a friend yesterday (a long-time Porsche and Ferrari owner) that the TPMS system in his Ferrari 575M had to be replaced (at $400 PER WHEEL!) recently - and that these units don't last forever as they are powered by a self contained battery unit... Any truth in this - at least from a Porsche perspective..?





    This is correct. Just had replace them all on my 05 612. Price including labor is close to what you mentioned. Small price to pay for driving a Ferrari.

    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Carlos from Spain:
    W8MM:
    I just had to replace mine on my 2005 Carrera GT.  Don't ask.

    OK I won't Smiley but I'm curious, is there a technical reason why they would be more expensive for the CarreraGT? Smiley

    The sensors are only part of it.  The car has to go through the magic on-the-lift-to-get-the-wheels-off proceedure which adds to the labor time.  The CGT has a different labor profile than other Porsche cars.


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    RC:
    Targa Tim:

    If you decide to keep the car for a while, just buy the tools.

     

    For the price of the tool (it is actually one), you can get two new tires. Not really worth it. 

     

    Well, the precision instruments torque wrench that I bought cost less than US $400.

    I also bought the Porsche collapsable breaker bar at about $200.  Don't really need it, but it looks good so I thought might as well.

    These tools do not really cost that much.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2011 Panamera 4


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    GR:

    I bought N rated tyres on the internet (a reputable company), and had them delivered to my OPC who then fitted them.  This was fractionally cheaper than the local tyre dealer. 

    Most dealers are able to "match" practically every price tag offered on the internet and if my dealer charges up to 50 EUR more per tire, I wouldn't care too much, he has to earn money too. However, I have experienced much higher differences in the past and this is something I don't want to accept because it sometimes felt like a rip-off. 

    Same with motor oil...dealers try to charge a fortune (I've seen up to 50 EUR per liter) but this is not acceptible.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Targa Tim:
    RC:
    Targa Tim:

    If you decide to keep the car for a while, just buy the tools.

     

    For the price of the tool (it is actually one), you can get two new tires. Not really worth it. 

     

    Well, the precision instruments torque wrench that I bought cost less than US $400.

    I also bought the Porsche collapsable breaker bar at about $200.  Don't really need it, but it looks good so I thought might as well.

    These tools do not really cost that much.

     

    As far as I remember, the official tool, the only one approved for the centerl lock wheels, costs aprox. 700 EUR. Maybe it has a different price tag in the US but I doubt it.

    I would be careful about using third party tools because if something bad happens, Porsche will deny responsibility.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Today my 997 Turbo S reached 10,000 km. Not so much in 18 months but every km driving was a pleasure.
    Only for the statistics: So far, the car had no technical issues. Everything works fine and without problems.blush

    Only the service for the central locking of the spiderwheels had to be made ​​today. Average consumption is at 16 liters per 100 km.

    10000 km Turbo S.JPG
     


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: The downside of centre locking wheels..

    Congratulations Conny997 kiss and many more happy kilometers!

     


    --

    If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS 


     
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