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    You're Advice...

    What would you guys get; 2002 Turbo or New GT3? Seriously thinking of getting one or the other. Thanks.

    Re: You're Advice...

    I bought 911 Turbo 2002 and my decision was that I dint want to go that far a way with sport driving expierences in the streets of Toronto :-)
    You see police tickets here really effect your insurance rate.

    Also a nice thing about Turbo is that you still have two rear seats, that I use sometime with my kids.

    I think though if you plan to spend at least a day per week on track, you should go with GT3, which is a great car.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    What would you guys get; 2002 Turbo or New GT3? Seriously thinking of getting one or the other. Thanks.




    I just made this exact decision and wound up with a Turbo.
    My reasons:
    1) back seats and I have a little girl
    2) daily driving of the Turbo is more fun and comfortable
    3) TORQUE
    4) The suspension is easier on bad roads
    5) I do track my car almost monthly and the Turbo is still an excellent track car. The GT3 wasn't enough of a better track car to off-set the other reasons.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Right..Scott...aha.....sure its not....

    Re: You're Advice...

    Having turbo and loving it, I still think the driving excitement (means for me driving on the edge of what the car is capable of doing) in GT3 cant be compared with Turbojavascript:void(0)

    Re: You're Advice...

    The Turbo would be a better buy IMO...the AWD capabilities of the Turbo and other luxuries make it more of an everyday car and I believe the Turbo is a bit faster in a straight line...

    Re: You're Advice...

    You're asking in the Turbo section and you expect an un-biased answer?

    Deciding between a 996 Turbo and a GT3 depends greatly on what are you planning to do with the car. Think of the GT3 as the track car that's been dialed back enough to be usable on the street but it's definitely not the ideal daily driver. The 996 Turbo is more of a luxury GT that's comfortable as a daily driver but can still be fun on the track. I happen to car more about the track use of the car than the daily driver aspect but that's me. You really need to test drive both cars and decide for yourself.

    P.S> Out of the box a stock 996 Turbo and a GT3 are fairly close in raw performance numbers like acceleration and top speed. Making more power with a Turbo is much easier than with a GT3 if that's something that interests you.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Scott in Houston said:
    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    What would you guys get; 2002 Turbo or New GT3? Seriously thinking of getting one or the other. Thanks.


    I do track my car almost monthly and the Turbo is still an excellent track car. The GT3 wasn't enough of a better track car to off-set the other reasons.


    Someone please tell me what Scott is smokin.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    JASCLASS said:
    Quote:
    Scott in Houston said:
    I do track my car almost monthly and the Turbo is still an excellent track car. The GT3 wasn't enough of a better track car to off-set the other reasons.


    Someone please tell me what Scott is smokin.

    In the hands of a novice to intermediate driver a stock Turbo would probably be faster around the track than the same driver in a GT3. Learn to drive the GT3 and it's a different ballgame.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Steve in FL said:
    Quote:
    JASCLASS said:
    Quote:
    Scott in Houston said:
    I do track my car almost monthly and the Turbo is still an excellent track car. The GT3 wasn't enough of a better track car to off-set the other reasons.


    Someone please tell me what Scott is smokin.

    In the hands of a novice to intermediate driver a stock Turbo would probably be faster around the track than the same driver in a GT3. Learn to drive the GT3 and it's a different ballgame.



    They are virtually tied by expert drivers. (2 seconds on the ring)
    By novices, Steve is probably right. I consider myself an intermediate driver anyway.

    The key to my first statement is the fact that there's a healthy dose of opinion in there. The GT3 is obviously a better track car, but by how much? Enough to give up the other things I mentioned on the Turbo? Not IMO.

    JAS, I'll set you up with my dealer. (For that stuff I'm smoking) LOL

    Re: You're Advice...

    I'd definitely choose the GT3 - I think it's more fun (and involving) to drive and will be a better financial investment as well.

    Re: You're Advice...

    The 2 seconds difference at the Nurburgring is for one raw lap. Do a 30 minute track session on a track in the US that's shorter and harder on the brakes and I expect you'll find the gap grows larger as the session goes on. That's because the GT3 has bigger brakes and weighs 450 lbs less than a 996 Turbo so you should get less brake fade. Of course you could upgrade the Turbo to PCCB brakes which never fade but some folks might say that's really true.

    Texas911: Could you chime in and say what your intended use is?

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Do a 30 minute track session on a track in the US that's shorter and harder on the brakes and I expect you'll find the gap grows larger as the session goes on. That's because the GT3 has bigger brakes and weighs 450 lbs less than a 996 Turbo so you should get less brake fade.



    Road & Track tested the GT3 at 3340 lbs. The Turbo weighs ~3500 lbs...just a 160 lb difference.

    I would say the main difference in lap times on the Ring is due to the tires.

    P. S.

    Put X73 and PS2 tires on the Turbo and the lap times would be very close.

    Lap Times

    Lap times are academic for these cars. Neither is a race car, so whichever car is slightly faster on a circuit is fairly unimportant. Despite the fact that these cars have similar performance numbers, they drive very differently subjectively. I prefer the GT3 for its RWD agility (and more entertaining ability to throttle steer) and instantaneous throttle response which extends to 8,200rpm. The TT has enormous torque, but as with every turbo motor, has a somewhat disconnected feeling.

    It's clearly a very personal choice (that's why they make both - neither is always the "better" car, just better to some owners). You're going to have to drive both and let us know which is better

    Nürburgring and the street

    I've had many opportunities to compare my stock 996 Turbo to the 996 GT3 at the Nürburgring.

    Compared to the Mk1 version, it takes a very good driver to get away from me. What the Mk1 makes on that first moment coming out of the corner (slightly better and more manageable handling, lower weight, no boost lag) the Turbo makes up on even a short straight.

    Compared to the Mk2 version, the Mk2 is slightly faster but not really that much so. These days, one or my favourite nemeses is in a Mk2. When we're both driving well we are very evenly matched and can have a good old time!

    On the street, I think there really is no comparison. Difficult to really push the GT3 in those areas where it excels on the street. The car is just so radical. On the other hand, the Turbo with all of its torque and power for passing, its softer suspension, its PSM and its more stable AWD set-up makes for a perfect street car which allows you to concentrate on what is ahead of you and not have to worry so much about managing the car.

    Having said that, I now have in my sights some variation of the GT3. My days of crossing the European continent in five hours are pretty much over. And I think I've learned what I can with the Turbo and now I need something more hard core if I'm going to learn more. It will take a while but sooner or later I will make a change.

    Stephen

    Re: Nürburgring and the street

    With respect to the Turbo...you can enjoy near instantaneous throttle response by keeping the Turbines spinning, that is, left foot brake...after all on a track the engine should be almost always "on boost"...should it not?

    Re: Nürburgring and the street

    Good post Stephen.
    That sums up my feelings exactly.

    As to the rest, I referenced track times only to make a point: that they are virtually identicle in performance for the avg. person.

    The GT3 may be faster over a very long haul on a track, but 99.9% of us don't track more than 30 minutes at a time or so.
    And again, that does not make up for my other reasons for selecting a turbo.

    Stephen summed up exactly why I like the Turbo on the street too. The GT3 needs certain conditions to really excel on the street while the turbo can do it in 60 feet.
    Torque is a wonderful thing. Life at boost is a blast.

    Re: Nürburgring and the street

    Scott - stop it....and no I am not talking to Roger about the X50....

    Re: You're Advice...

    Hi,

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    What would you guys get; 2002 Turbo or New GT3? Seriously thinking of getting one or the other. Thanks.



    Well I was driving a 996tt during the last 3 years and made 85.000 km with my 996tt. It's perfect as a daily driver and provides fun on the Track too. I did 10 Track weekends last year. Due to the weight of the 996tt you need a lot of brake pads und rotors and the car is also consuming a lot of tires. Just to give you an example: If you do 3 fast laps in a row at Spa-Francorchamps your tires are overheating and your are burning a lot of rubber. The situation can be improved by the use of R-Tires (semi-slicks). Anyway this year I substituted the 996tt with a GT3. But I won't use the GT3 all year just from March until October.
    Get a 996tt and a GT3 and make a back to back comparison. The cars behave very different.

    Cheers
    Thomas

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:Road & Track tested the GT3 at 3340 lbs. The Turbo weighs ~3500 lbs...just a 160 lb difference.

    I was surprised Porsche numbers said a 450lb difference but I'd expect it to be more than 150lbs considering the AWD system and what I'd consider "extra crap" like sound deadining and rear seats in the Turbo.

    As to the 3340lb number for R&T, that was their as tested weight and their curb weight number was 3160lbs. What numbers did they record for the 996 Turbo?

    Re: Nürburgring and the street

    Quote:
    BillC4S said:
    With respect to the Turbo...you can enjoy near instantaneous throttle response by keeping the Turbines spinning, that is, left foot brake...after all on a track the engine should be almost always "on boost"...should it not?



    Left foot braking -- meaning in this case holding the throttle at the same time as using the brake -- is a technique used in older Tubos. It is not an option on the 996 Turbo. The throttle will cut after a moment. Imagine having the car carefully balanced with the brake and throttle when all of a suddent the throttle cuts? Dangerous and I think Porsche is making a mistake setting up the car this way.

    Although the turbo lag is significantly reduced it is still there and it you are following a GT3 through a corner you can really see it. It is worth a car's length coming out of a corner. On the street you really don't notice it. On the track you do. At peak power it is a difference of about 90 bhp (325 vs. 415) so there is still lots of power there but still less than the GT3.

    Stephen

    Re: You're Advice...

    My '02 Turbo weighs 3485 lbs with a full tank of gas (weighed on four pad racing scales). The only weight reduction it has is sunroof delete.

    I do know there are heavier Turbos out there though.

    It's important to watch the weight figures in magazines and other publications because often they are quoted as Porsche's advertised weights, which are "dry" weights.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    My '02 Turbo weighs 3485 lbs with a full tank of gas (weighed on four pad racing scales


    My '01 996tt with leather, PCM, CD-changer and electric sport-seats is about 3825 lbs. It's amazing how the weight depends on the options installed ...

    Cheers
    Thomas

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:It's important to watch the weight figures in magazines and other publications because often they are quoted as Porsche's advertised weights, which are "dry" weights.

    The weights I was looking at for the 450lb difference were the ones posted on the Porsche web site in the tech spec sections for each car. Not that those are necessarily accurate either.

    Re: Nürburgring and the street

    Quote:
    BillC4S said:
    Scott - stop it....and no I am not talking to Roger about the X50....



    But you should be!

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    My '02 Turbo weighs 3485 lbs with a full tank of gas (weighed on four pad racing scales). The only weight reduction it has is sunroof delete.

    I do know there are heavier Turbos out there though.

    It's important to watch the weight figures in magazines and other publications because often they are quoted as Porsche's advertised weights, which are "dry" weights.



    I noticed it a lot my first time out at the track with my Turbo. It took some getting used to and some guidance from another Turbo owner who is a better driver than me. Once I knew how to use this car, it was a blast.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Thomas, 3825 lbs?? What did you have in the back seat of the car...a load of gravel?

    I have never seen the weight of a 996tt listed over 3600lbs in any magazine test (even with the options you just listed). And by the way the 01 996tt's are rumored as a lighter car by about 40 lbs over 02's and up due to body strengthening changes in 02.

    Re: You're Advice...

    Quote:
    My '01 996tt with leather, PCM, CD-changer and electric sport-seats is about 3825 lbs.



    That's out'a sight! I assume you weighed the car with a full tank of gas and no people inside? And what kind of scales did you use?

    I just can't believe there's any 996 Turbo out there that really weighs that much.

    Re: Nürburgring and the street

    Fixed Wing - ahh good point, forgot that left foot braking in the e-gas equipped Turbo would kill throttle...rather defeating the point.


    Wonder if you could disable that feature?

     
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