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    Re: Tesla

    I read the entire thing. Trust me. I respect this forum and people opinions to do my homework. In that article it is as though they pretend Tesla does not do any of the pre beta testing. The fact is the rest of the industry is not far enough along to do beta testing of anything like this. Once they are they will also need to go through a similar beta process. As we have done for decades with all their products, just no one is pointing it out. Please explain how they would not eventually need to beta test?  Predictably you call out my bias. All I am stating is what everyone knows about the software development lifecycle and process. 
    Perhaps you should compare Tesla pre beta testing - which includes millions of miles of experience gathered in real life to the rest of the industry.  This is the same industry by the way, which you think is so great, producing cars with a personal injury count as much 10x as great as Teslas.  Is that the goal?  Good thing for us someone is improving safety for the long run. 
    When they get around to beta testing let Tesla know how they do it so they take note. I’m certain if they improve the process Tesla and others will adopt it and keep trying to improve it. 
    One thing is pretty clear to me as an lifelong car owner.  Tesla is more committed to providing safety and value and innovation for their customers than the rest of the industry.  It would be impossible to list all the shit automakers have done and keep doing to their customers  - none of which I have ever encountered with Tesla. The silliest thing I have heard is advice for Tesla to do anything like they do it. 
     

     Cheers Carlos !  Hope you are doing well and staying safe. Btw my backyard neighbor is also named Carlos. He owns several car dealerships in town. Mostly GM products- he hates my Tesla too. Of course not as much as the Porsche.  I just love all cars. 


    Re: Tesla


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla’s stellar earnings fail to enchant investors

    When you pitch an ever brighter future, you better hope it doesn’t darken.

    3 hours ago

    © REUTERS

    Whenever Tesla’s earnings deck for the quarter lands, FT Alphaville has a little trick: we pull up the PDF and hit ctrl + F and type in a few choice words to see what accounting chicanery the company has been up to over the three months to make its numbers. For, while it’s arguably true that Wall Street is too focused on short-term financials (as Tesla’s shareholders often allege), it’s also true that there are few companies so myopic about hitting estimates as Elon Musk’s $634bn electric car company.

    This quarter, however, FT Alphaville’s inspection drew a blank. In fact, the financials were remarkably clean. There were no bitcoin sales to boost the bottom line, the amount of pure profit zero emission credits sold declined both year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter and, to boot, Tesla boasted record automative gross margins over a period with of rising raw material costs and widespread supply chain disruption. 

    Combined with revenues almost doubling year-on-year to $12bn, and a slight decline in both research and development and interest rates costs meant Tesla recorded its highest GAAP net income -- $1.14bn -- in history. Perhaps even more impressive, in a quarter in which analysts expected a free cash flow burn of $319m, the company managed to churn out $619m of the green stuff.

    You’d think with record revenues, record gross margins, and record profits investors would be giddy. And you’d be sort of right. In pre-market, Tesla’s shares are up. But a move of just 1.6 per cent feels particularly mute for a scrip that is widely renown for its manic volatility.

    So what’s going on?

    If you ask FT Alphaville, the problem seems to be expectations. Having bid Tesla’s market capitalisation up to the collective value of eight General Motors, investors now expect its current crop of products -- whether it be the Model 3, the Model S Plaid, or its still diminutive solar business -- to deliver. What matters more than ever, is the company’s future. And that’s where it gets a little hazier.

    Tesla’s current product roadmap amounts to its Full Self Driving autonomous software (announced: October 2016), the Semi-truck (announced: November 2017), the Roadster 2 (announced: November 2017), the Cybertruck (announced: November 2019) and a mooted low cost Model 2 (announcement: tbc). And on the conference call, when asked about this product line-up, management’s answers got a little squiffy.

    For instance, you might know that since early July, Tesla has been offering a beta version of its Full Self Driving software to its US customers for $199 per month (plus $1,000 if you don’t have the correct hardware). Do note that Tesla states on its website the product is not fully autonomous.

    So how’s that launch going? Well, here’s Elon’s answer to analyst Pierre Ferragu on the call when he was asked about the software package’s uptake so far (our emphasis, transcript from Sentieo):

    ...We need to make full self-driving work in order for it to be a compelling value proposition. Otherwise, people are kind of betting on the future.

    I mean, like right now, is it -- does it make sense for somebody to do FSD subscription? I think it’s debatable. But once we have full self-driving widely deployed, then the value proposition will be clear. And at that point, I think basically everyone will use it or be rare -- a rare individual who doesn’t.

    Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the tech. Particularly when you consider Google’s Waymo has been running a fully autonomous taxi service in Phoenix for over a year, Cruise has been testing driverless carsin San Francisco since December, and former Tesla partner Mobileye has been doing similar in New York. In fact in California, Tesla’s home state, it doesn’t even have a licence to operate driverless cars. As for the software itself, even Tesla’s superfans are struggling to muster excitement about its current capabilities. For a product on which bulls like ARK Invest seems to have put so much stock, it seems a long way off its rivals.

    Away from products ranging from those that sort-of exist to those that don’t, we also had news of the Semi-truck and Cybertruck. Both weremeant to enter production at the end of this year at Tesla’s new plant in Austin, and both have been delayed to be next. The Semi because of chinks in the manufacturing process of its new 4680 battery cell (announced: September 2020), and the Cybertruck because of semiconductor supply and, in Elon’s words:

    Nobody’s ever really made a car like this before, a vehicle like this before. So there’ll probably be challenges because there’s so much unexplored territory.

    Remind anyone of the Model X’s infamously tricky to manufacture gulf wing doors?

    As for the almost half a decade old Roadster 2 and the theorised cheaper car? We guess no news is not exactly good news.

    Still, there’s no doubt the numbers were good. But at a valuation of 12 times forward revenues, the market reaction suggests that’s the minimum investors were expecting. And with Elon announcing he probably won’t be on earnings calls in the future unless “there’s something really important I need to say” and its product pipeline receding ever further into the future, shareholders might be hoping for a grand return sooner rather than later.


    Re: Tesla

    Seems like a valid perspective though lacking understanding when it comes to self driving tech.  Big time. 
    The most useful feature - driving itself with minimal intervention down a highway - works on all Teslas perfectly well and is free.  This is the biggest reason no one wants to pay extra for FSD.  No other car is anywhere close with this capability which is useful today.  The GM and Ford geofenced, extra cost options are a joke.  The self driving cars they mentioned still have drivers and exist in tiny geofenced locals.  But hey. The number look outstanding 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Seems like a valid perspective though lacking understanding when it comes to self driving tech.  Big time. 
    The most useful feature - driving itself with minimal intervention down a highway - works on all Teslas perfectly well and is free.  This is the biggest reason no one wants to pay extra for FSD.  No other car is anywhere close with this capability which is useful today.  The GM and Ford geofenced, extra cost options are a joke.  The self driving cars they mentioned still have drivers and exist in tiny geofenced locals.  But hey. The number look outstanding 

    +1

    Outstanding numbers indeed kiss


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    After what? 18 years? Tesla finally have a profitable quarter for real. Even backing out the $354 mil in credits. 

    No need for Elon's creative accounting and whatnots. Even with their bitcoin holdings taking a hit in value. 

    If they can repeat this again next quarter they would have had 2 consecutive profitable quarters ever.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Why the near 2% decline in market capitalization when TSLA actually earns a profit on revenue and sales volume exceeding analyst expectations?  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Why the near 2% decline in market capitalization when TSLA actually earns a profit on revenue and sales volume exceeding analyst expectations?  

    Really. We are curious if the market follows logic?  
    Maybe it 4x overpriced as is. Bet you did not think I would say that …


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Why the near 2% decline in market capitalization when TSLA actually earns a profit on revenue and sales volume exceeding analyst expectations?  

    You could ask the same for many companies part of NASDAQ Comp. Minus 1.21% today. Microsoft beat expectations too and declined more than Tesla.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    Plaid is just nuts. These Lambo guys was a joy to watch!

     


    Re: Tesla

    The improved performance from the old Raven Performance is just insane. The top end was an issue before. not anymore...

    221635172_4328641393895227_1492987298564951362_n.jpg


    Re: Tesla

    https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging-analysis/

    The 'just released' Plaid has already been eclipsed by Mercedes in charging speed. 

    Plaid claimed a higher peak charging speed but that peak is just that, a peak. The Mercedes has a 10% advantage in average throughput, 155kW from 20%-80% vs just 130kW from the Plaid. Heck, even a Hyundai Ioniq 5 can sustain a 170kW throughput.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Cybertruck and Semi delayed again...

    https://electrek.co/2021/07/27/tesla-cybertruck-production-delayed/

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging-analysis/

    The 'just released' Plaid has already been eclipsed by Mercedes in charging speed. 

    Plaid claimed a higher peak charging speed but that peak is just that, a peak. The Mercedes has a 10% advantage in average throughput, 155kW from 20%-80% vs just 130kW from the Plaid. Heck, even a Hyundai Ioniq 5 can sustain a 170kW throughput.

     

     

    Since 99% of charging is done at home I would love to see a comparison of top home charging speeds available for each EV.  For instance my model3 will charge at 43 mph on the Tesla home charger using a 60 amp 240 volt connection. 48 amps are used by the charger if 60 amp service is wired to it. 
    Even charging my model3 at 150kw superchargers (gen 2) I find that a 20 minute stop every 250 miles is totally acceptable.  The new 350 kw charger Tesla is now producing will cut some of that time. Still - hardly ever use it. They are always along the interstates when you need them without much detour and available for me has been 100% and as simple as plugging in.  Just is not the main source of charging for these cars.  
    Also, maybe overlooked, if your Tesla knows it is heading to a supercharger at least 5 minutes ahead of time it preconditions the battery which allows for the power to flow at max rates for longer % of time.  
    makes a big difference. Don’t look for car magazines to do this as part of their test. I could be wrong. 
    FYI my range has been excellent on the highway recently. At 75 mph on autopilot (which add lots of consistency) in am seeing the rated 4 miles per kWh over 150 miles to the lake.  (Less than $2 in home AC power) 
    I suspect the ‘miles per hour’ is the most relative charging metric  and general EV measure though it will be a lively discussion on if that matters. For me, four stats matter and are related in some way.  Miles per kWh, miles per hour max (this is constant until you get to the last 2-3 home charging, miles per hour max supercharging (20-80%) and 0-100 mph as a tie breaker. 


    Re: Tesla

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Cybertruck and Semi delayed again...

    https://electrek.co/2021/07/27/tesla-cybertruck-production-delayed/

    When you are the innovator and first mover, then setbacks are part of the game…


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Any waiting is not acceptable. I have been lucky in that I have always found at most two other cars charging when I attempt it. Given this type of data is available to Tesla they might do a better job at adding stations where needed.  On average though I would bet the vast majority of charging takes place at home. Which is why stats on this topic would be interesting to compare. It is also the least expensive source of power further assuring it will be the preferred method.  Having your own gas station at home is every hot Rodder’s dream. High octane at that. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Sounds like one may want to take something old school running off gasoline….. Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    996FourEss:
    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Sounds like one may want to take something old school running off gasoline….. Smiley

     

    Depends, if it's a V12 Ferrari, it won't go far either Smiley

    Best would be a hybrid. Charge up the battery at destination to be used around the area. Better hotels all have chargers now. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    996FourEss:
    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Sounds like one may want to take something old school running off gasoline….. Smiley

     

    Depends, if it's a V12 Ferrari, it won't go far either Smiley

    Best would be a hybrid. Charge up the battery at destination to be used around the area. Better hotels all have chargers now. 

    But it is extremely rare to wait in line 2.5 hours to refuel the Ferrari.  


    Re: Tesla

    Wait till EV will be the norm and ICE forbidden to be on sale in 10 ish years and you may drive for some time to find fuel…the technocrats have no limits indecision


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:
    996FourEss:
    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Sounds like one may want to take something old school running off gasoline….. Smiley

     

    Depends, if it's a V12 Ferrari, it won't go far either Smiley

    Best would be a hybrid. Charge up the battery at destination to be used around the area. Better hotels all have chargers now. 

    But it is extremely rare to wait in line 2.5 hours to refuel the Ferrari.  

     

    All because the charging speed of EV is still too slow and there are enough infrastructure for charging. 

    In the same town, there are 4 gas stations. think 24-28 pumps total. In the peak of travel time, there will still be waits for pumping, but maybe 5-10 minutes max.

    If there are more chargers and the charging time can be down to ~10 minutes or less, then there won't be much line up. 

    Contrary to some wrong believes, home charging isn't the solution, it is only for daily usage. For travel purposes more and faster chargers is needed. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Hydrocarbon-based fuels still retain several attractive parameters including energy/power densities per kilogram and portability.  Electricity will never overcome these features and EVs can only be made so efficient with 97% being close to the theoretical maximum.  Outside of draconian CO2 regulations, increasing the thermal efficiency of an internal combustion engine to > 45% moves the advance back to the ICE.  This is doable with advanced control algorithms and F1 engines are already over 50% thermally efficient in most of its operating regime. 


    Re: Tesla

    Sometimes I wait 10-20 min at the DIY car wash, The important thing here is the most of the trips a vehicle does are short drives perhaps more than 70-80% of the trips are <100km.

    Someone who drives daily large distances will go for the diesel hybrid option if available or gas hybrid if diesel is not available.


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:
    996FourEss:
    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Sounds like one may want to take something old school running off gasoline….. Smiley

     

    Depends, if it's a V12 Ferrari, it won't go far either Smiley

    Best would be a hybrid. Charge up the battery at destination to be used around the area. Better hotels all have chargers now. 

    But it is extremely rare to wait in line 2.5 hours to refuel the Ferrari.  

     

    All because the charging speed of EV is still too slow and there are enough infrastructure for charging. 

    In the same town, there are 4 gas stations. think 24-28 pumps total. In the peak of travel time, there will still be waits for pumping, but maybe 5-10 minutes max.

    If there are more chargers and the charging time can be down to ~10 minutes or less, then there won't be much line up. 

    Contrary to some wrong believes, home charging isn't the solution, it is only for daily usage. For travel purposes more and faster chargers is needed. 

    fast charging will destroy the batteries. Unless batteries last for 10-15 years I can see lots of environmental and cost concerns for EVs.

     


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Why the near 2% decline in market capitalization when TSLA actually earns a profit on revenue and sales volume exceeding analyst expectations?  

    TSLA and some other stocks have stratospheric valuations that are not driven by company performance. Such a tiny move is irrelevant.


    Re: Tesla

    Looks like the Taycan Turbo S stand still compared to the Plaid indecision

     


    Re: Tesla

    wantone:
    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:
    996FourEss:
    Whoopsy:

    Right now it's summer. My province has opened up. People are going for road trips and stuff.

    There is a gateway town East of Vancouver, called Hope, about 90 mins drive away, like 150km. Hope is where people fuelled up and charge up for their destinations to the interior, which are like 200km way and up.

    Every weekend, it's not unheard of for Teslas to be lining up at the Supercharger stations there for up to 2 1/2hrs for their turn. a 4hr road trip turned into a 6-7hr one. And there is like 16 stations there already.

    You tell me, is fast charging speed important? 

    Sounds like one may want to take something old school running off gasoline….. Smiley

     

    Depends, if it's a V12 Ferrari, it won't go far either Smiley

    Best would be a hybrid. Charge up the battery at destination to be used around the area. Better hotels all have chargers now. 

    But it is extremely rare to wait in line 2.5 hours to refuel the Ferrari.  

     

    All because the charging speed of EV is still too slow and there are enough infrastructure for charging. 

    In the same town, there are 4 gas stations. think 24-28 pumps total. In the peak of travel time, there will still be waits for pumping, but maybe 5-10 minutes max.

    If there are more chargers and the charging time can be down to ~10 minutes or less, then there won't be much line up. 

    Contrary to some wrong believes, home charging isn't the solution, it is only for daily usage. For travel purposes more and faster chargers is needed. 

    fast charging will destroy the batteries. Unless batteries last for 10-15 years I can see lots of environmental and cost concerns for EVs.

     

     

    Even if they last 10-15-20 years they batteries are still a environmental concern right now.

    EV cars are still young, and none of the manufacturers have a clear plan on how they are dealing with recycling EV cars. 

    Give EVs enough of a bottom buffer and a top buffer, where 0% isn't true 0% and 100% isn't true 100%, then very fast charing is possible without causing much harm to batteries. Pretty much what current 'testing' is doing, 10%-80% or whatever. 

    Standing there waiting 20mins for a fast charge is still too slow for normal consumers. It needs to come down to 10 minutes or less before the bulk of the consumers will believe they are equal to normal cars, together with much more fast chargers. At least 1/2 the density of gas stations. 


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    Re: Tesla

    7798E759-D276-485D-9F6D-FF28AAE34B8C.jpegYou still ignore that 99% of charging is done while at home and the car is doing nothing at all. In 24k miles I have maybe sat five hours total at a supercharger.   It is not like I’m not constantly driving - that’s a lot of miles for working from home.   What percent of power for a Tesla is provided by superchargers vs level 2 at home?  Maybe my use is exceptional but I doubt it. 
    Of course if you need to go more than 300 miles you supercharge.  Not an everyday thing. Any friends home I arrive at I always find at least a 30amp dryer outlet.  There are far more places and ways to charge and nothing you can substitute a gas station for. 
    Cheers buddy - from the lake 


    Re: Tesla

    wantone:
    CGX car nut:

    Why the near 2% decline in market capitalization when TSLA actually earns a profit on revenue and sales volume exceeding analyst expectations?  

    TSLA and some other stocks have stratospheric valuations that are not driven by company performance. Such a tiny move is irrelevant.

    Because smart money is as reckless as dumb money?  That explains why TSLA is down for the past six months.  You might want to check and see exactly who are rebalancing portfolios.  


     
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