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    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    The article says it will continue the F430 thru late 2008, making it a five year run. Not surprising to see a new model for 2009.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    ...OR:

    The federal government grants Ferrari a waiver on airbag requirements.

    Case closed.



    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    rickrsm said:
    The article says it will continue the F430 thru late 2008, making it a five year run. Not surprising to see a new model for 2009.


    it will make a 4 years run ,05,06,07,08 .... frustrating..

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    rickrsm said:
    The article says it will continue the F430 thru late 2008, making it a five year run. Not surprising to see a new model for 2009.


    it will make a 4 years run ,05,06,07,08 .... frustrating..



    Actually that's quite good:
    you'll get your car this year, then you'll drive it for about three, four years (as long as the warranty) and then you'll switch to the successor!

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    There other good news if the 430 will end on 2008 that means that the 430 CS is just a few months away, but that is me speculating...

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    rickrsm said:
    The article says it will continue the F430 thru late 2008, making it a five year run. Not surprising to see a new model for 2009.


    it will make a 4 years run ,05,06,07,08 .... frustrating..



    Actually that's quite good:
    you'll get your car this year, then you'll drive it for about three, four years (as long as the warranty) and then you'll switch to the successor!


    nice way to view things rossi...

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    Quote:
    rickrsm said:
    The article says it will continue the F430 thru late 2008, making it a five year run. Not surprising to see a new model for 2009.


    it will make a 4 years run ,05,06,07,08 .... frustrating..


    Actually that's quite good:
    you'll get your car this year, then you'll drive it for about three, four years (as long as the warranty) and then you'll switch to the successor!


    nice way to view things rossi...



    ... well, at least that's what I plan to do.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    This reminds me of when VW had their initial run-in with the NHTSA on airbags around 15 years ago. VW wanted to use the European-size bags, which assume the occupant is properly belted in. The US-sized bags are considered "out of position" size, as in the person isn't wearing a belt at all. VW contended that the out-of-position bags were too big, and dangerous. Everyone recalls the problems with the big bags and kid car seats, etc., which to me more or less proved VW's arguement, but it didn't make the NHTSA relent any.

    Here's a good article on belts, airbags, and safety:

    http://www.gladwell.com/2001/2001_06_11_a_crash.htm

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Ferrari sell about 1500 hundred F430s to the US. That's a lot different from VW. And besides: how many small woman are buying F430? Waiver Granted. Cased closed.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Ferrari V8s have certain " silhouette " lifetimes ( ie, the cars design in profile and layout ) , like 308/328; 348/355; 360/430 , so the next V8 is the new " architecture " to meet new regulatory requirements not known when the 360 architecture was conceived in the mid 90s . A 1 year shorter 430 run makes sense in the grand scheme .

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers



    That would be a four year run, average has been five, but four is not outrageous. Why would it hurt?

    Gary



    I was thinking about the states, in Europe you could and can get a F430 quick, but considering the US is 50% of Ferrari's market and the significant delay in the delivery of the F430 had to US, that would make it a 2-3 year run for US customers or think of the people that are still waiting for one. Thats why I say it can't be, 2008 would be way too early and would make a lot of owners unhappy.



    US isn't 50% of F's mkt (it's only about 33%)...that's the fund factor behind F scarcity in US and its high resale value in US....

    If F shipped 50%+ of its cars to US, I suspect 430 would quickly become like P....easy to get w/unremarkable-to-weak resale value as the many poseurs who buy 430s w/premise of great resale value would scamper away.....

    More importantly, what "position" is this svelte female in the passenger seat assuming when supposedly bad things happen w/airbag deployment?????

    F ain't known for its safety systems, and NHTSA is the same agency that approved all kinds of "safe" cars like the Explorer rollover SUV, Crown Vic/Lincoln fuel tank exploder, etc etc....so this whole debate is akin to politicians terming used car salesmen/pedophiles as "immoral/unsavory" characters.....

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    NHTSA is the same agency that approved all kinds of "safe" cars like the Explorer rollover SUV, Crown Vic/Lincoln fuel tank exploder, etc etc....


    The NTHSA writes the rules and the car manufacturers certify their cars to those rules, they don't really "approve" anything.

    The two main problems with the 430 is that Ferrari can't fit a newer style airbag into the passenger compartment, there just isn't room behind the dash. The other problem is that they can't find a supplier for a system that figures out if a passenger is a full grown adult, a child or a woman. No one is willing to sell and certify a system to Ferrari. I'm guess maybe because all the current systems that were built for sport seats were designed inconjunction with other large manufacturers (i.e. Porsche, etc.) so the seat manufacturers can't sell to third-parties? (Ferrari even tried a video camera based system but it didn't work)
    The replacement for the F430 comes out in 2008 and if Ferrari is unable to sell anything in 2007 they will have a decrease in net profit of $53,000,000USD.
    What I don't understand is that Ferrari claims the 430 was just an upgraded 360 with an unchanged chassis design from the early nineties. I thought Alcoa redesigned the chassis in around 2000 for Ferrari?

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    That's the truth Ferrari isn't telling if this didn't happen. They 'advertise' that the 430 is a 'totally brand new car' whereas in reality it's an upgraded, facelifted 360. I'm saving for 2008.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    shin said:
    They 'advertise' that the 430 is a 'totally brand new car' whereas in reality it's an upgraded, facelifted 360.



    I think Ferrari never claimed that.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    They 'advertise' that the 430 is a 'totally brand new car' whereas in reality it's an upgraded, facelifted 360.



    I think Ferrari never claimed that.



    If this is true that the 430 is only an update from the 360 Ferrari truly did a marvellous job. Many including chief editor of Wheels magazine Australia say that the 430 is the best car they have ever driven. Amazing especially when you consider the power and torque increase with the safer handling on the limit.
    Hopefully the new car from the 360/430 era will be as big an improvement as the 308/328 to 348/355.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    They 'advertise' that the 430 is a 'totally brand new car' whereas in reality it's an upgraded, facelifted 360.



    I think Ferrari never claimed that.



    If this is true that the 430 is only an update from the 360 Ferrari truly did a marvellous job. Many including chief editor of Wheels magazine Australia say that the 430 is the best car they have ever driven. Amazing especially when you consider the power and torque increase with the safer handling on the limit.
    Hopefully the new car from the 360/430 era will be as big an improvement as the 308/328 to 348/355.



    Ferrari always talked about a heavily revised Modena, that can be considered "a new car", since so many things have been changed.
    Similar situation to the Porsche 996 --> 997 conversion.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    The 430 is a heavy modified 360. No secret there.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    I believe Ferrari will stop using one platform for two generations of V8 cars (308/328, 348/355, 360/430) starting from the F430 replacement, to keep up with Lamborghini. They never had to do that in the past, when there was no small Lamborghini. Now it's different and that's why the F430's replacement is moved one year ahead of their regular schedule.

    For crying out loud, the F430 uses the 360's roof and doors. Saving for 2008.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    I welcome this new competition from Lamborghini, before Lamborghini Gallardo there was no direct competitor for 360/430. Consumors benefit the most from this new competition.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    ferrari should be ashamed of how they neglected the design of airbags in the f430. it is absurd that they did not design this 2006 car with side airbags. it doesn't sirprise me at all that they also screwed up the design of the front airbags. i hope nhtsa does stop sales of this inherently unsafe design.


    Quote:
    jandreas said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    NHTSA is the same agency that approved all kinds of "safe" cars like the Explorer rollover SUV, Crown Vic/Lincoln fuel tank exploder, etc etc....


    The NTHSA writes the rules and the car manufacturers certify their cars to those rules, they don't really "approve" anything.

    The two main problems with the 430 is that Ferrari can't fit a newer style airbag into the passenger compartment, there just isn't room behind the dash. The other problem is that they can't find a supplier for a system that figures out if a passenger is a full grown adult, a child or a woman. No one is willing to sell and certify a system to Ferrari. I'm guess maybe because all the current systems that were built for sport seats were designed inconjunction with other large manufacturers (i.e. Porsche, etc.) so the seat manufacturers can't sell to third-parties? (Ferrari even tried a video camera based system but it didn't work)
    The replacement for the F430 comes out in 2008 and if Ferrari is unable to sell anything in 2007 they will have a decrease in net profit of $53,000,000USD.
    What I don't understand is that Ferrari claims the 430 was just an upgraded 360 with an unchanged chassis design from the early nineties. I thought Alcoa redesigned the chassis in around 2000 for Ferrari?


    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    ignacio said:
    ferrari should be ashamed of how they neglected the design of airbags in the f430. it is absurd that they did not design this 2006 car with side airbags. it doesn't sirprise me at all that they also screwed up the design of the front airbags. i hope nhtsa does stop sales of this inherently unsafe design.


    Quote:
    jandreas said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    NHTSA is the same agency that approved all kinds of "safe" cars like the Explorer rollover SUV, Crown Vic/Lincoln fuel tank exploder, etc etc....


    The NTHSA writes the rules and the car manufacturers certify their cars to those rules, they don't really "approve" anything.

    The two main problems with the 430 is that Ferrari can't fit a newer style airbag into the passenger compartment, there just isn't room behind the dash. The other problem is that they can't find a supplier for a system that figures out if a passenger is a full grown adult, a child or a woman. No one is willing to sell and certify a system to Ferrari. I'm guess maybe because all the current systems that were built for sport seats were designed inconjunction with other large manufacturers (i.e. Porsche, etc.) so the seat manufacturers can't sell to third-parties? (Ferrari even tried a video camera based system but it didn't work)
    The replacement for the F430 comes out in 2008 and if Ferrari is unable to sell anything in 2007 they will have a decrease in net profit of $53,000,000USD.
    What I don't understand is that Ferrari claims the 430 was just an upgraded 360 with an unchanged chassis design from the early nineties. I thought Alcoa redesigned the chassis in around 2000 for Ferrari?





    Could it still be imported under the individual states' "component" car (kit car) regs. in which case air bags aren't required?

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    ignacio said:
    ferrari should be ashamed of how they neglected the design of airbags in the f430. it is absurd that they did not design this 2006 car with side airbags. it doesn't sirprise me at all that they also screwed up the design of the front airbags. i hope nhtsa does stop sales of this inherently unsafe design.


    Quote:
    jandreas said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    NHTSA is the same agency that approved all kinds of "safe" cars like the Explorer rollover SUV, Crown Vic/Lincoln fuel tank exploder, etc etc....


    The NTHSA writes the rules and the car manufacturers certify their cars to those rules, they don't really "approve" anything.

    The two main problems with the 430 is that Ferrari can't fit a newer style airbag into the passenger compartment, there just isn't room behind the dash. The other problem is that they can't find a supplier for a system that figures out if a passenger is a full grown adult, a child or a woman. No one is willing to sell and certify a system to Ferrari. I'm guess maybe because all the current systems that were built for sport seats were designed inconjunction with other large manufacturers (i.e. Porsche, etc.) so the seat manufacturers can't sell to third-parties? (Ferrari even tried a video camera based system but it didn't work)
    The replacement for the F430 comes out in 2008 and if Ferrari is unable to sell anything in 2007 they will have a decrease in net profit of $53,000,000USD.
    What I don't understand is that Ferrari claims the 430 was just an upgraded 360 with an unchanged chassis design from the early nineties. I thought Alcoa redesigned the chassis in around 2000 for Ferrari?





    To be fair, 599 has side/head airbags . Realistically, F is a small-scale mfr for which crash-testing and airbag systems engineering are probably low priorities.....and who knows how primitive 599's airbag systems still are vs those of 997TT?

    F buyers are presumably more sophisticated than typical car buyers....and understand and accept the risks involved w/F, but feel the risk/reward balance works for them....

    Rather than focusing on F safety, perhaps NHTSA should focus more on making sure SUVs and Camrys and Accords are as safe as reasonably possible for middle-class folks who can't afford the industry-leading active/passive safety of a 997TT.....

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:Could it still be imported under the individual states' "component" car (kit car) regs. in which case air bags aren't required?


    Maybe, but don't you need to import the chassis and drivetrain separately to qualify?

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:Could it still be imported under the individual states' "component" car (kit car) regs. in which case air bags aren't required?


    Maybe, but don't you need to import the chassis and drivetrain separately to qualify?



    Yes, I think so, but could they dismantle then reassemble the car once it arrives in the US?

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:Could it still be imported under the individual states' "component" car (kit car) regs. in which case air bags aren't required?


    Maybe, but don't you need to import the chassis and drivetrain separately to qualify?



    Yes, I think so, but could they dismantle then reassemble the car once it arrives in the US?


    But, what would the Ferrari dealer charge for that

    And with whom would you trust that job besides the dealer?

     
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