Crown

TB993tt:

Someone on RL posted this comparison, I guess I am probably biased but the 997 seems a bit prettier in my eyes.

Despite the runny egg headlights, I vouch for this too

It evolved gradually and nicely, until they decided to go soft and fully automatic pd(c)ake

I still like the new one best... 

Only disappointment is the engine choice, looks like a compromise to me. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

I still like the new one best... 

Only disappointment is the engine choice, looks like a compromise to me. 

The exterior too which looks like it's been reinstituted  from 3RS with some additional intakes here and there. It's like a mix of Turbo S + GT3 RS with some minor changes and $100k extra charge

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Wasn't it clear that the performante had much better aero package and a mid engine setup which is faster on the track?

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

It has the same peak torque as the 991.2 turbo, 750NM decreasing to 705NM @7000rpm it shouldn't pose any problem at all to the PDK. Techart run 850+NM on the 991.2 turbo with a warranty. I do tend to agree with you about the engine, we were expecting a bit more tech, talk of low end turbo spool assistance etc, instead we have a hotted up 991.2 Turbo S motor but then again that motor is a pretty decent lump.

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN

Can't imagine what kind of margin Porsche will make on these cars... quadruple the price of a base 991...

TB993tt:

It has the same peak torque as the 991.2 turbo, 750NM decreasing to 705NM @7000rpm it shouldn't pose any problem at all to the PDK.

I'm pretty sure the only reason the GT2 RS has same peak torque as Turbo S is exactly for this reason - not to exceed the PDK's torque rating (rather than spend some money to upgrade the PDK).  If not electrically limited, the 2RS should have significantly more torque than Turbo S (same motor with more boost).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

Grant:

TB993tt:

It has the same peak torque as the 991.2 turbo, 750NM decreasing to 705NM @7000rpm it shouldn't pose any problem at all to the PDK.

I'm pretty sure the only reason the GT2 RS has same peak torque as Turbo S is exactly for this reason - not to exceed the PDK's torque rating (rather than spend some money to upgrade the PDK).  If not electrically limited, the 2RS should have significantly more torque than Turbo S (same motor with more boost).

That is a very good point...

SciFrog:

Wasn't it clear that the performante had much better aero package and a mid engine setup which is faster on the track?

For me, yes. For many others, no. They still don't believe Lamborghini's claim. Can't wait for the Performante review in autumn (Sport Auto...hopefully).

Funny: I kind of think that the Performante will be faster on the Nordschleife than the GT2 RS but I also think that straight line performance will be worse than factory claims (Lamborghini claims a 0-200 kph time of 8.9 seconds but I think it is going to be over 9 seconds). The Performante has only 30 hp more (on paper) and the active aerodynamics may produce too much downforce to really allow a better straight line performance than in the standard Huracan but maybe I'm wrong, let's wait and see.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

What is glaringly apparent and well illustrated by this (stolen from RL) pic of the the blue scuffed front lip RS is that the 3 front radiators are massive. When the 996 turbos first came out I know a big topic for tuners was engine longevity with the limited cooling which could be provided for on the new water cooled platform. My 7 wears larger side rads and a cup centre rad all to keep the temps associated with high hp in check, the new RS has very seriously sized cooling appendages 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN

MKSGR:

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

I was talking about Porsche...it is the fastest Porsche. It is not fast enough for the 720S...indeed.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

SciFrog:

Wasn't it clear that the performante had much better aero package and a mid engine setup which is faster on the track?

For me, yes. For many others, no. They still don't believe Lamborghini's claim. Can't wait for the Performante review in autumn (Sport Auto...hopefully).

I would even place a bet that the Performance will be killed by GT2RS and 720s in tests 

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

I was talking about Porsche...it is the fastest Porsche. It is not fast enough for the 720S...indeed.

Got it 

What is a realistic price tag for the 720S? € 280-300k? And what will happen to its value once they start rolling out all the other models to be based on the new carbon II tub structure?

It will go down, just like every expensive exotic.

olli:

What is a realistic price tag for the 720S? € 280-300k? And what will happen to its value once they start rolling out all the other models to be based on the new carbon II tub structure?

Price tag sounds right - residual value after 3-4 years? I expect around 60% - not much different as for the 991 GT2RS and many other "so called rare" models after the bubble bursts. Maybe you will have a difference of 10%-points in favor of the GT2RS but not more. This has been the situation for many, many years - before the sudden rise of the car bubble 3 years ago. This will come to an end and residual values will get back to where they were before I can still remember well how things were in 2014 and before, when I sold a 997 GT2 and a 997 GT2RS.

On the other side you get a truly special car with the 720s 

Personally I would not hesitate one second and buy the 720S. It is better in every aspect, is a true exotic and not a ricer car and you can drive it around much easier that what stays a $300k 911, quadruple the base car or so.

SciFrog:

Personally I would not hesitate one second and buy the 720S. It is better in every aspect, is a true exotic and not a ricer car and you can drive it around much easier that what stays a $300k 911, quadruple the base car or so.

Wait until the 991GT2RS cab version comes out and you'll regret that just j/k 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Only if has rear seats  Still waiting. In the meantime I am really getting excited by the release of the new California...

spudgun:

Here is my take:

Disclaimer: not saying one is a better date than the other. 
 

You could not tell it any better.

In my opinion, the time for Porsche design is over. Porsche design was the sleek, metallic design. Classical symbol of the 80 & 90s. Worked well there. Today we are 20 years further. Many other brands made the transition but Porsche kind of struggles to find their way. People called me crazy after I told them that the Panerma rear is boring after 6 months on the street. And now - look on it, tell me if you still turn head for one today? Do you even notice it is a new one and not the old one? And that appealing rear - it is actually very very boring. Porsche needs to step up the design game. IMO currently they sell only the brand name and the myth. Too much they play safe - so it is kind of good to risk something with the GT2 RS, but then again - do it right guys. 

That might have been the way to go:

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

I was talking about Porsche...it is the fastest Porsche. It is not fast enough for the 720S...indeed.

And RC - this is the problem. Today there are dozen's of cars out there which are very fast. The GT2RS is in the top league, but it is a limited car. The 720S everyone can buy and it is insanely fast. And - like your R8, the 720s is like you build modern sports cars. They feel just so different on the street. The 911 is still based on the VW beetle. Time for a radical refreshment!

Lars997:

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

I was talking about Porsche...it is the fastest Porsche. It is not fast enough for the 720S...indeed.

And RC - this is the problem. Today there are dozen's of cars out there which are very fast. The GT2RS is in the top league, but it is a limited car. The 720S everyone can buy and it is insanely fast. And - like your R8, the 720s is like you build modern sports cars. They feel just so different on the street. The 911 is still based on the VW beetle. Time for a radical refreshment!

I could not agree more - a car like the 720s has a very, very special drive/handling feel to it  And the design (interior & exterior) is part of the fascination for sure 

MKSGR:

Lars997:

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

I was talking about Porsche...it is the fastest Porsche. It is not fast enough for the 720S...indeed.

And RC - this is the problem. Today there are dozen's of cars out there which are very fast. The GT2RS is in the top league, but it is a limited car. The 720S everyone can buy and it is insanely fast. And - like your R8, the 720s is like you build modern sports cars. They feel just so different on the street. The 911 is still based on the VW beetle. Time for a radical refreshment!

I could not agree more - a car like the 720s has a very, very special drive/handling feel to it  And the design (interior & exterior) is part of the fascination for sure 

A massive , to you Lars. Porsche need to up their game, the Beetle has had its day  ...

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

throt:

MKSGR:

Lars997:

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

I am always more interested in the tech than looks but yes, they took a lot of parts from the GT3 RS, which was to be expected. I still wonder how they managed to squeeze 700 hp out that engine, I still wonder how reliable PDK is with that kind of torque and power and I still wonder how fast this car actually is because so far, it seems to be slower on the track than the Huracan Performante and this kind of is another disappointment (not that we really have real world Performante or GT2 RS track times).

What makes this car interesting for me right now is one single thing: Straight line performance. Currently, it is the fastest Porsche on the market. Is it enough to pay over 300k for it? Well... 

Really? Straight line the 720s is already faster. The only category where the GT2RS could prove its class is track performance  I am very interested in the tests of the 720s and the GT2RS. Somehow, the Huaracan is not a real competitor to these two cars in my personal view. Customer cars of the Performante will certainly not be able to compete with the 720s or the GT2RS... Neither track nor straight line (obviously).

I was talking about Porsche...it is the fastest Porsche. It is not fast enough for the 720S...indeed.

And RC - this is the problem. Today there are dozen's of cars out there which are very fast. The GT2RS is in the top league, but it is a limited car. The 720S everyone can buy and it is insanely fast. And - like your R8, the 720s is like you build modern sports cars. They feel just so different on the street. The 911 is still based on the VW beetle. Time for a radical refreshment!

I could not agree more - a car like the 720s has a very, very special drive/handling feel to it  And the design (interior & exterior) is part of the fascination for sure 

A massive , to you Lars. Porsche need to up their game, the Beetle has had its day  ...

Thanks buddy - but you know, everything comes back in design... even that chest hair 

They must be doing something right though given the demand for both the GT cars and the normal 911s  ( and Yes I know 50% of sales are SUVs)

They must be doing something right though given the demand for both the GT cars and the normal 911s  ( and Yes I know 50% of sales are SUVs)

Yes they selling a lot of cars.

My father is 75 years old - he just ordered another new 991 and he also want to buy next year the new Cayenne. Lots of his friends are the same - buying this car because it is "a Porsche". A sports car where he feels comfortable and sporty - easy to handle in his age. 

And the export market works even better - majorly, "its a Porsche". They dont drive that fast, they are not allowed to. They love the comfort, they love the safe way it rides. German manufacturers are building cars for the US and China, not for Germany. They have to build cars for the biggest markets. 

Myself - I feel bored with a Porsche. And I think - lots of us are. We are car enthusiasts in the best age, loving the cutting edge, like to drive fast, going to tracks or German Autobahns to feel the limit. We are looking for Adrenalin and not the Comfort! 

Lars, this is why I think Porsche needs the 960. I do not think it would be a good idea to stop the 911 or even change it completely but Porsche needs to offer alternatives. The 911 GT2 RS is no alternative to the 911...it is still a 911...for basically double the money. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

There is no way they are changing the 911 philosophy that made it the most successful sportscar in history and even more popular with each generation, another story is if it's not what some people are looking for and want something else, but the solution is not too kill the 911 adapting it into something else to please those comparatively fewer who want something else, the solution is to bring out another model for them...i.e. 960, but the 911 needs morning changed in it's philosophy and it's success over any other sportscar is the best proof of that.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS