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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Enmanuel:
    RC:

    I love the R8 but I wish this car would come from Porsche. Is that crazy? yes

    [...]

    The first "but" , so it begins

    You're reading this wrong, Enmanuel. Smiley I just wish Porsche would build the 960 because I would have loved to stick with my favorite car brand. There is no "but" about the R8, whenever I turn on the engine, I get goosebumps. Never felt that way with any car I ever owned. I just wish it had the Porsche badge. Smiley

    Remember that F12 I was telling you guys about? This was (almost) my first "exotic". Not sure I would have loved it so much as the R8 though...the R8 is perfect for me...perfect neutral AWD setup, amazing sound, amazing gearbox which is fun to shift manually as well. Also, the chassis setup matches my driving style pretty well, would never thought of that since this is a mid engined car and I always preferred the 911.

    I never looked back at the 991 R after getting the R8 but I also think these are completely two different cars, which could complement each other. Before you read more into this...no, I do not plan to get a 991 R anymore. 

    I still have the 991 C4 GTS Cab, remember? This car doesn't go away, so I'm still in the Porsche game but at a different (lower) performance level.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
    Enmanuel:
    RC:

    I love the R8 but I wish this car would come from Porsche. Is that crazy? yes

    [...]

    The first "but" , so it begins

    You're reading this wrong, Enmanuel. Smiley I just wish Porsche would build the 960 because I would have loved to stick with my favorite car brand. There is no "but" about the R8, whenever I turn on the engine, I get goosebumps. Never felt that way with any car I ever owned. I just wish it had the Porsche badge. Smiley

    Remember that F12 I was telling you guys about? This was (almost) my first "exotic". Not sure I would have loved it so much as the R8 though...the R8 is perfect for me...perfect neutral AWD setup, amazing sound, amazing gearbox which is fun to shift manually as well. Also, the chassis setup matches my driving style pretty well, would never thought of that since this is a mid engined car and I always preferred the 911.

    I never looked back at the 991 R after getting the R8 but I also think these are completely two different cars, which could complement each other. Before you read more into this...no, I do not plan to get a 991 R anymore. 

    I still have the 991 C4 GTS Cab, remember? This car doesn't go away, so I'm still in the Porsche game but at a different (lower) performance level.

    I know you love your R8 RC, don't take my comment disrespectfully or anything, just having some fun at your expense Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Can we start an R8 thread? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Cazooch:

    Can we start an R8 thread? 

    There is one. But we are busy discussing the 911 R there indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    Cazooch:

    Can we start an R8 thread? 

    There is one. But we are busy discussing the 911 R there indecision

    Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    Cazooch:

    Can we start an R8 thread? 

    There is one. But we are busy discussing the 911 R there indecision

    Smiley Smiley Actually, we were discussing my neighbors in it but... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Cazooch:

    Can we start an R8 thread? 

    The R8 and the 911 R are actually pretty good examples of what is going wrong at Porsche right now.

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    2. A mid engined super sports car is overdue and Porsche knows that. For whatever reasons, the "960" gets delayed over and over again. A R8 from Audi makes no sense in my opinion, the RS models would have been enough to improve the brand awareness.

    I know, I know...Porsche still sells tons of cars but maybe they would sell more if they would have used the 911 R tech in the GTS models. For a premium of course... Smiley Or they could finally start to make a Carrera RS... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    Cazooch:

    Can we start an R8 thread? 

    There is one. But we are busy discussing the 911 R there indecision

    SmileySmiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
    A R8 from Audi makes no sense in my opinion, the RS models would have been enough to improve the brand awareness.

     

    I was discussing this last night with a friend who works for BMW and bemoans the fact that they (BMW) do not have a halo car like the R8 to improve the image of the lowlier models.

    I was interested in a TV advert they are showing in the UK at the moment which features an orange R8 doing donuts and leaving the four Audi hoops in tyre marks, I was struck by how the orange R8 used is photographed so that the angles make it look like it could be any generic Audi, of course not completely but it seems they are attempting to reach out to other potential Audi owners with their halo model.

    A friend of mine got an R8 V10 as a loaner when his Huracan was in for work and he really thought it boring and uninspiring, I am waiting with interest to see what RC thinks of his following the usual honeymoon period Smiley 


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
     

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    Instead they decided to aggravate enthusiasts by showing that car off and promoting exposure in major magazines and making it available only to a small group of "priviledged" 918 guys (in US at least).

    The bulk of Porsche fans who would love to get the 911R and enjoy it, would not have been able to afford the 918 to begin with, just to be allowed to purchase more affordable cars.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    absent:
    RC:
     

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    Instead they decided to aggravate enthusiasts by showing that car off and promoting exposure in major magazines and making it available only to a small group of "priviledged" 918 guys (in US at least).

    The bulk of Porsche fans who would love to get the 911R and enjoy it, would not have been able to afford the 918 to begin with, just to be allowed to purchase more affordable cars.

    YEP - Realize it guys! The biggest mistake we made is that we didn't order a 918. I remember very well that it took ages for Porsche to sell those cars. In the beginning they been sitting  like old bread! Today, you could have earned a nice amount and on top of it you would have been able to buy an GT3RS, GT4, Boxster Spyder, 991R. On each you could have made nice money again and again and also enjoying some serious fun!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Is someone has already received its 991 R and what he thinks ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Lars997:

    YEP - Realize it guys! The biggest mistake we made is that we didn't order a 918. I remember very well that it took ages for Porsche to sell those cars. In the beginning they been sitting  like old bread! Today, you could have earned a nice amount and on top of it you would have been able to buy an GT3RS, GT4, Boxster Spyder, 991R. On each you could have made nice money again and again and also enjoying some serious fun!

    Yes, I couldn't afford a 918 but would've been worth a $1MM loan even at bad interest rate...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Question: The R is a car that offers up a more hardcore feel but is primarily not intended as a track car, so if someone was after that  but couldn't score one, wouldn't just getting an RS (at a much cheaper price point) and taking the wing off achieve that perfectly? Sure it's not an actual R but for cruising purposes it'll serve the same, and come resale you could just bolt the wing back on. Right?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Or you could just get a GT4 for half the price and twice the fun indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
    Cazooch:

    Can we start an R8 thread? 

    The R8 and the 911 R are actually pretty good examples of what is going wrong at Porsche right now.

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    2. A mid engined super sports car is overdue and Porsche knows that. For whatever reasons, the "960" gets delayed over and over again. A R8 from Audi makes no sense in my opinion, the RS models would have been enough to improve the brand awareness.

    I know, I know...Porsche still sells tons of cars but maybe they would sell more if they would have used the 911 R tech in the GTS models. For a premium of course... Smiley Or they could finally start to make a Carrera RS... Smiley

    I love the way Porsche creates buzz around a car that for the most part will sit in collectors garages. An R variant as part of the 911 product offerings is long overdue. 


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, New York


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Enmanuel:

    Question: The R is a car that offers up a more hardcore feel but is primarily not intended as a track car, so if someone was after that  but couldn't score one, wouldn't just getting an RS (at a much cheaper price point) and taking the wing off achieve that perfectly? Sure it's not an actual R but for cruising purposes it'll serve the same, and come resale you could just bolt the wing back on. Right?

    The Manual Gearbox is the bigger deal...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:
    Enmanuel:

    Question: The R is a car that offers up a more hardcore feel but is primarily not intended as a track car, so if someone was after that  but couldn't score one, wouldn't just getting an RS (at a much cheaper price point) and taking the wing off achieve that perfectly? Sure it's not an actual R but for cruising purposes it'll serve the same, and come resale you could just bolt the wing back on. Right?

    The Manual Gearbox is the bigger deal...

    IMO a number of people would prefer if it was a PDK, I know I would. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    If offered in manual or PDK I think over 80% would be PDK...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:

    If offered in manual or PDK I think over 80% would be PDK...

    I think you are mis-reading the market again (like the demand for GT3 Cab).


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Enmanuel:
    Grant:
    Enmanuel:

    Question: The R is a car that offers up a more hardcore feel but is primarily not intended as a track car, so if someone was after that  but couldn't score one, wouldn't just getting an RS (at a much cheaper price point) and taking the wing off achieve that perfectly? Sure it's not an actual R but for cruising purposes it'll serve the same, and come resale you could just bolt the wing back on. Right?

    The Manual Gearbox is the bigger deal...

    IMO a number of people would prefer if it was a PDK, I know I would. 

    Whether you prefer PDK or not is not the point.  A Wingless RS is not the same car as a 911R (with gearbox being one of several discriminators).


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    918 vs 911 R: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/porsche-918-spyder-911-r/


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    If offered in manual or PDK I think over 80% would be PDK...

    I think you are mis-reading the market again (like the demand for GT3 Cab).

    GT3 cab? Would surely be the best selling 911 of all times SmileySmiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Lars997:
    absent:
    RC:
     

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    Instead they decided to aggravate enthusiasts by showing that car off and promoting exposure in major magazines and making it available only to a small group of "priviledged" 918 guys (in US at least).

    The bulk of Porsche fans who would love to get the 911R and enjoy it, would not have been able to afford the 918 to begin with, just to be allowed to purchase more affordable cars.

    YEP - Realize it guys! The biggest mistake we made is that we didn't order a 918. I remember very well that it took ages for Porsche to sell those cars. In the beginning they been sitting  like old bread! Today, you could have earned a nice amount and on top of it you would have been able to buy an GT3RS, GT4, Boxster Spyder, 991R. On each you could have made nice money again and again and also enjoying some serious fun!

    Here is the problem, like a vast majority of Porsche enthusiasts, I simply could not afford to buy the 918, no matter how badly I wanted that car.

    I can easily afford a 911R though  but am not allowed to buy it since I did not spent close to a $million on the 918.

    I don't think it's fair and turns me off regarding any future purchases from this manufacturer.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I would love a GT3 cab! indecision


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    EnglishManInNY:

    I would love a GT3 cab! indecision

    Buy a cheap 991.1 Cab and take $100K to a competent shop who deals with race cars and they'll probably build you something even better than a GT3 Cab.

    GMG is supposedly a pretty competent place.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    absent:
    Lars997:
    absent:
    RC:
     

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    Instead they decided to aggravate enthusiasts by showing that car off and promoting exposure in major magazines and making it available only to a small group of "priviledged" 918 guys (in US at least).

    The bulk of Porsche fans who would love to get the 911R and enjoy it, would not have been able to afford the 918 to begin with, just to be allowed to purchase more affordable cars.

    YEP - Realize it guys! The biggest mistake we made is that we didn't order a 918. I remember very well that it took ages for Porsche to sell those cars. In the beginning they been sitting  like old bread! Today, you could have earned a nice amount and on top of it you would have been able to buy an GT3RS, GT4, Boxster Spyder, 991R. On each you could have made nice money again and again and also enjoying some serious fun!

    Here is the problem, like a vast majority of Porsche enthusiasts, I simply could not afford to buy the 918, no matter how badly I wanted that car.

    I can easily afford a 911R though  but am not allowed to buy it since I did not spent close to a $million on the 918.

    I don't think it's fair and turns me off regarding any future purchases from this manufacturer.

    And that's why the next GT3 will have manual as an option!

    90% of the people that don't have the R but wanted the R want it for the wrong reason, they smell the appreciating price potential.

    For 90% of the owners of the 918 who got an R, they don't give a shit about the potentially higher selling price on the secondary market, their other investment will make that sum in a month or a day. Of that 10% left, 90% of that 10% will be US dealers who flips them. Which also gives 918 owners a bad name from that 9%.

    Porsche knows their clients' demographic well, they treated US dealers like royalties, they will turn a blind eye to whatever they do. They will just be the bad apples among their faithful clients. For the other 91% of 918 owners who got an R, they also bought the RS, the GT4 and countless other Porsche cars, future and present,, it's a bet Porsche made and paid off well.

    "Normal' customers can bitch all they want, but they are not the ones that buy 4-6 Porsche's a year, they buy one every 4 years or something. I guess I could be counted as a typical high end Porache customer, after the 918 I bought the RS, I skipped the GT4 but I bought the GT4 ClubSport, I also have an R coming, a Cayenne Turbo S arriving in Sept, deposit down for the next GT3, the next Panamera Turbo S, and the Misson E. That's 6 cars right there after the 918.

    The truth hurts.


    --

     

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

     I guess I could be counted as a typical high end Porache customer, after the 918 I bought the RS, I skipped the GT4 but I bought the GT4 ClubSport, I also have an R coming, a Cayenne Turbo S arriving in Sept, deposit down for the next GT3, the next Panamera Turbo S, and the Misson E. That's 6 cars right there after the 918.
    --

    Wow, that's quite a Porsche collection Nick!

    But I will still have more blue Porsches than you.indecision


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:
    absent:
    Lars997:
    absent:
    RC:
     

    1. Instead of making 911 fans happy and make a 911 R available to everyone who wants one, they make it limited edition. I would have gladly paid more to have the 911 R tech in my 991.1 GTS.

    Instead they decided to aggravate enthusiasts by showing that car off and promoting exposure in major magazines and making it available only to a small group of "priviledged" 918 guys (in US at least).

    The bulk of Porsche fans who would love to get the 911R and enjoy it, would not have been able to afford the 918 to begin with, just to be allowed to purchase more affordable cars.

    YEP - Realize it guys! The biggest mistake we made is that we didn't order a 918. I remember very well that it took ages for Porsche to sell those cars. In the beginning they been sitting  like old bread! Today, you could have earned a nice amount and on top of it you would have been able to buy an GT3RS, GT4, Boxster Spyder, 991R. On each you could have made nice money again and again and also enjoying some serious fun!

    Here is the problem, like a vast majority of Porsche enthusiasts, I simply could not afford to buy the 918, no matter how badly I wanted that car.

    I can easily afford a 911R though  but am not allowed to buy it since I did not spent close to a $million on the 918.

    I don't think it's fair and turns me off regarding any future purchases from this manufacturer.

    And that's why the next GT3 will have manual as an option!

    90% of the people that don't have the R but wanted the R want it for the wrong reason, they smell the appreciating price potential.

    For 90% of the owners of the 918 who got an R, they don't give a shit about the potentially higher selling price on the secondary market, their other investment will make that sum in a month or a day. Of that 10% left, 90% of that 10% will be US dealers who flips them. Which also gives 918 owners a bad name from that 9%.

    Porsche knows their clients' demographic well, they treated US dealers like royalties, they will turn a blind eye to whatever they do. They will just be the bad apples among their faithful clients. For the other 91% of 918 owners who got an R, they also bought the RS, the GT4 and countless other Porsche cars, future and present,, it's a bet Porsche made and paid off well.

    "Normal' customers can bitch all they want, but they are not the ones that buy 4-6 Porsche's a year, they buy one every 4 years or something. I guess I could be counted as a typical high end Porache customer, after the 918 I bought the RS, I skipped the GT4 but I bought the GT4 ClubSport, I also have an R coming, a Cayenne Turbo S arriving in Sept, deposit down for the next GT3, the next Panamera Turbo S, and the Misson E. That's 6 cars right there after the 918.

    The truth hurts.

    This is exactly what I'm saying. You for yourself, you might keep many of your cars. But matter in fact, there are many out there which owned their 918 just one day longer than necessary and are now in the queue for all the nice goodies. Those goodies are extremely stable in price - no risk to buy 4 cars a year. They are great fun-investments with a relatively low risk. 

    But the problem is a different one: We could see in the last half/years number that the hype flattens down. 3% growth after 30% a year ahead. It speaks for  itself. Enthusiasts like @abscent or many others of us, they want those sporty cars, they want their radical Porsches. They don't want their every day shopping Porsche. Now as they build one, just offer it to the majority. What is wrong with that engine, that you can't build 5000 pieces more of it? Put it in the GT3 and increase the number of GT3s build annually. Everyone would be happy. And the "real fan" is buying that car even if it is an investment or not. He would drive it and not having it as a "polishing pussy" sitting and waiting in his garage. 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    If offered in manual or PDK I think over 80% would be PDK...

    I think you are mis-reading the market again (like the demand for GT3 Cab).

    GT3 cab? Would surely be the best selling 911 of all times SmileySmiley

    On yer bike, son....Smiley Smiley.


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


     
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