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    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Lol. Cnc.. Always amused by those that assert "Wrong"..

    Is a personal choice...

    To classify such as wrong or right is sophomoric...

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    rantanplan : Yes, after 28000 km they are done. No heavy track use, just some Porsche track events.

    cnc : Your choice, your thinking. Personally, even if I find these brakes very good, I won't get them anymore. Even if they where lasting more than a couple of km, being worried about them taking a shock during a wheel change or going through gravels is somewhat taking the fun out...

    Cedric

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    I talked to a very competent sounding guy at Movit today and he sent me all the info on their ceramic rotors 380mm front and 350mm rear. It explains exactly the difference between the original PCCB and theirs. It is right that the PCCB only has a thin 0,5mm layer of usuable ceramic compound, while the Movit one is solid carbon ceramic.
    They promised that even under toughest track circumstances they will last forever...

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Yes, these are the brakes I plan to fall back on should the original CCB's ever fail me. So far they are faultless.

    I was originally pointed in the direction of these solid CCB brakes by Nordschleife, I am sure we all remember him here. He hasn't posted for some time. If you research them long enough, you will find that they are made by the UK company Surface Treatments. These are the brakes that the Koenigsegg CCX wears. The difference between them and Porsche system is truly dramatic. Due to their makeup, I would guess the rotors should be a bit heavier than the PCCB, which have a carbon and resin core. Movit are their agents for Europe, I think.

    Did they give you a weight comparison with Porsche? I would be very interested in that.

    Thanks

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    The August issue of Car&Driver has an article about brakes. They conclude that Porsche ceramic or iron brakes perform the same without any fading in both cases. They conclude that the primary advantage of PCCBs is low weight.

    They also comment on brake dus,t as being a nagging item for Porsche on JDPower IQS survey. PAG states that high performance pads do produce dust and that they are not going to compromise performance. I agree. I found that it's very easy to clean rims these days using P&G's Swiffer Duster.

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Quote:
    BMCG said:
    Lol. Cnc.. Always amused by those that assert "Wrong"..

    Is a personal choice...

    To classify such as wrong or right is sophomoric...



    Taking a comment too literally reveals a lack of imagination, please read it in the context of the original post.

    I'm with you on the issue of "personal choice"; even if it is uneducated, unsupported by engineering principals, or influenced by personal bias and budgetary considerations

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Rantanplan : I have an answer to my email from movit. Very nice answer, technically documented. They are talking about their discs lasting a lot longer than the PCCB, but nothing about forever. If they do last forever, I'm in. But at around 12 000 Euro for the front + rears with pads, I need to ear for some track guys that has taken this way before...

    To be continued :-)

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Quote:
    MarekN said:
    Yes, these are the brakes I plan to fall back on should the original CCB's ever fail me. So far they are faultless.

    I was originally pointed in the direction of these solid CCB brakes by Nordschleife, I am sure we all remember him here. He hasn't posted for some time. If you research them long enough, you will find that they are made by the UK company Surface Treatments. These are the brakes that the Koenigsegg CCX wears. The difference between them and Porsche system is truly dramatic. Due to their makeup, I would guess the rotors should be a bit heavier than the PCCB, which have a carbon and resin core. Movit are their agents for Europe, I think.

    Did they give you a weight comparison with Porsche? I would be very interested in that.

    Thanks



    Hi marekn,

    i dont have the weight of the PCCB in mind just now but i am sure u do!
    here the weight of the movit rotor..
    I really like my breaks but they are showing the first signs of wear and I am really not sure how long they will still stay with me.. I am already trying to decide if I am gonna go for a set of the movit carbon ceramic rotors or if i will go for a complete set of Porsche steel brakes at half the price of the the rotor set...

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    The August issue of Car&Driver has an article about brakes. They conclude that Porsche ceramic or iron brakes perform the same without any fading in both cases. They conclude that the primary advantage of PCCBs is low weight.

    They also comment on brake dus,t as being a nagging item for Porsche on JDPower IQS survey. PAG states that high performance pads do produce dust and that they are not going to compromise performance. I agree. I found that it's very easy to clean rims these days using P&G's Swiffer Duster.



    I read the same article (surprised that this thread went for so long before anyone referrenced it..), but it's at home on top of the John...

    I think they did 6 or so "rounds" of 100mph-0 panic stops, five stops per-round, with little rest time between rounds...

    The steels performed just as fade-free as the PCCB's, and for all practical purposes (both types of brakes having slight deviations stop-to-stop-to-stop..) both slowed the car to a halt in equal distances..

    So, for those here who do alot of track-duty, that's one thing and it seems there's plenty of valid arguments on both sides..

    But for those who are primarily enjoying street performance, all it appears you're getting for your money is less brake dust, 46 lbs less weight, and the cache' of yellow calipers and fancy-pants rotors peeking through your wheels!

    You'll laugh, but PCCB was never a consideration for me because the calipers woulda clashed horribly with my teracotta interior! So my braking choice was nothing more than a mixture of budget and vanity!

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Quote:
    rantanplan said:
    here the weight of the movit rotor..




    For comparison purposes: PCCB (front) - 5.77 kg, PCCB (rear) - 5.71 kg (about half the weight of the steel discs).

    I had a chat with a guy from SGL Carbon a couple of weeks ago. He said that about 50% of the cars in the Porsche Sport Cup would be equipped with PCCB, surviving 1 season (11 races), whereas the other half opted for steel discs because they would kill the PCCBs after a few races only. His conclusion: the durability of the PCCB on the track strongly depends on the driver

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Porsche is very clever about this issue at the Sport Driving School in Alabama.

    On day 1 of the 2 day course, you get to track a C2 with steel rotors. On day 2, you get into a C2S with PCCB's. The C2 is the workhorse of the course and gets plenty more use than the C2S, plus it has smaller brakes.

    The difference between the well used steel brakes on the C2 and the less used PCCB's in the C2S is HUGE. You walk away with the impression that the PCCB's are enormously better, but it really isn't a fair comparison at all.

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    thanks for the info! i just ordered the green pagid racing pads for the PCCB from Porsche Motorsport in Weissach.They are supposedly better and take better care of the rotors when used on the track...Also, Porsche Center Stuttgart has already written to Porsche AG about the issue of the little circles with the cracks and are waiting for a reply. Lets wait and see...

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    PAG states that high performance pads do produce dust and that they are not going to compromise performance. I agree. I found that it's very easy to clean rims these days using ...



    OR, just get black wheels, and you don't really notice the brake dust.

    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I just bought my first Cup and am doing a lot of research to come up to speed.

    My car is a 2008/09. I see in the Porsche literature you could order the car with PCCBs or steel rotors. My car has steel.

    It seems that the consensus since this thread and with Porsche is that PCCBs are not practical for consistent track use due to cost and early failure. I have also read that people get a lot more wear from their rear rotors than their front rotors by several fold. Is this pretty consistent with everyone's experience?

    If that is the case I wonder if perhaps running steel in the front and ceramic in the rear might be realistic? Saving 4.5kg of unsprung weight per wheel is tempting. Could help a lot with acceleration and braking traction in bumpy sections.

    Sorry if this has been covered. Opinions? Has anyone tried this?

    Motive might be better than PCCBs although about 1kg heavier ea.


    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    I will check with my brother as he is racing his Cup in the Swiss Porsche Cup championship. He is now in Imola ( Italy ) as he has a race there this week end.

    But I am pretty sure he runs steels and that most do so.

     

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: PCCB vs. metal brakes

    modifier:

    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I just bought my first Cup and am doing a lot of research to come up to speed.

    My car is a 2008/09. I see in the Porsche literature you could order the car with PCCBs or steel rotors. My car has steel.

    It seems that the consensus since this thread and with Porsche is that PCCBs are not practical for consistent track use due to cost and early failure. I have also read that people get a lot more wear from their rear rotors than their front rotors by several fold. Is this pretty consistent with everyone's experience?

    If that is the case I wonder if perhaps running steel in the front and ceramic in the rear might be realistic? Saving 4.5kg of unsprung weight per wheel is tempting. Could help a lot with acceleration and braking traction in bumpy sections.

    Sorry if this has been covered. Opinions? Has anyone tried this?

    Motive might be better than PCCBs although about 1kg heavier ea.

    Stick with steel brakes (all around), you are going to be fine. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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