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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    yes, a new 991 GT3 (from the dealer, so not a client car) and, the dealer is located in the midst of Germany...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I dont think that there are any 991 GT3 with a new engine.

    The production will start after Easter Holiday, so it is impossible the dealer has a 991 GT3 ready.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I didn't say that there was "a new GT3 with a new engine" - I said and meant "a new GT3 to be returned [to Porsche HQ]" - sorry, for any confusion caused.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Thanks for the clarification.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Hey Guys,

    So my dealer received their first GT3 return last week, a black on black car.  I have a 2010 997.2 TT, but I'm contemplating giving them an offer on the GT3 minus 20% off the list price and my car as a trade in.  They were asking almost full price for the car which I find absurd (only 8% less, which is the discount I get normally off a new car (It's my 5th Porsche from them).  The car has 785kms on it, but it's still a used car that will have it's engine replaced.  They also have 4 GT3's sitting on their lot still unsold...  Im going in on Tuesday to make the offer, I wonder what they will say

     

     

    Mo


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    How can the sell them without an engine?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    That's the 20% off.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I would buy it now, and wait for the engine, which they reckon will be about one month....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In effect you will bargain for a 20% discount on the finished car given its history i.e. driven even for some kilometers and the engine replacement which is expected to happen within a month.

    Very reasonable. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Exactly.... the previous owner has traded up to a turbo s, so the dealer has taken the car back and is looking to sell it. Lets hope he thinks like you reginos, that my offer is very reasonable :)

     

    Mo


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    so I visited the dealer today and gave him my offer, he said we were to far apart on the price as he was forced to take the car back at full price from the previous owner who is a VIP client and upgraded to a turbo s.  There is a loss of around 22k if he accepts my deal and he said they were not willing to take that loss.  I've explained to him that the price he is asking me to buy at, is identical to me buying a new car (minus discount I usually get as VIP client), so I would prefer to spec a car out exactly as I want and I'm in no hurry to trade in my turbo.  I know they have stock on hand and I know for sure that 1-2 clients with cars already delivered are looking to give them back.  I've told him to think about my offer seriously and let me know.... will keep you guys updated on what happens :) 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think the dealer is doing a typical Lebanese bargaining, by maximizing his initial position indecision


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    hahaha you know Lebanese car salesmen to well Reginos.... :) that's exactly what he is doing...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I am next door  indecision


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Fellow 991 GT3 Stakeholders,

    We have today, filed our GT3 Worldwide Action Group Letter of complaint, to Porsche AG senior management. A separate communication has also concurrently been sent to Porsche sales offices and regional distributors across the globe.

    This letter was the culmination of an intense collaborative/consultative approach between 100+ x 991 GT3 stakeholders from across the globe via a private forum that was created for this purpose - http://tinyurl.com/GT3-Worldwide-Action-Group 

    The letter seeks to take PAG to task on the issues of communication and fair treatment across regions, in relation to the 991 GT3 "engine rod bolt recall" and the customers it affects. To the best of our knowledge Porsche AG have not at this time consulted the stakeholders directly with regards to these matters!

    We hope you will take some time out of your busy schedules to click on the link below and read what has been submitted to dealers and PAG.

    We also urge you, as a 991 GT3 "stakeholder", regardless on whether or not you have been a direct part of the GT3 Worldwide Action Group Forum to press upon your supplying dealer the contents of this communication. Your dealer should be aware of the letter and it may in fact help achieve a satisfactory remedy for you....

    Sierra Mike & Macca




    A full copy of the communication to both dealers and PAG appears here: 
    http://tinyurl.com/991GT3-PAGletter

    Sample.JPG


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Macca993 - very well written  (IMHO) a balanced an very fair letter.  With regards to the inequality of treatment on the European Union market, please note that if Porsche holds 40% or more market share in the relevant market (I believe in this case the high end sport cars segment) this alone qualifies a dominant position which in itself is not prohibited but the abuse of it is forbidden (i.e. the alleged inequality of treatment across the EU markets).  This fact could trigger  an investigation of abuse of dominant position by the EU competition authority.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I can't help it, but this is BS!

    in the U.S., people only have to pay about 75% of the German price or for example 60% of Swiss price, yet they want the same compensation??! Talk about discrimination!


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    IMO, people who hadn't taken delivery should have be given the right from the beginning to cancel. Plenty of others would have wanted their slots. 

    Only those who had taken delivery and had to give their cars back, should be compensated. The compensation should be fair in a manner reflecting the relative pricing in the various markets. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SuzyF:

    I can't help it, but this is BS!

    in the U.S., people only have to pay about 75% of the German price or for example 60% of Swiss price, yet they want the same compensation??! Talk about discrimination!

    Completely agree. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Suzy,

     

    In Lebanon the GT3 costs with some options around 240K, plus a 12k registration fee that you don't get back.... we have 60% customs on cars, so imagine we get the same compensation as the another country like Dubai where the car costs half the price...I heard from the dealer that they negotiated with Porsche Germany for 25K rebate for depreciation for Lebanon car owners

     

    Mo


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Suzy. Thanks for your response. I take it you spent some time compiling that.

    If you lived in NZ or Australia the price is 200 & 300K USD!  I have over 100 x 991 GT3 stakeholders from around the world on our GT3 Action Group database. The average price a USA customer has paid for their car including options is around 159,000 USD. People often forget the state tax and on road costs in the USA. We have some Chinese owners on our database. Their average cost is just north of 400K USD!

    Unfortunately  in compensation we cannot penalise PAg for taxes a country applies to the vehicles such as in Australia or China.

    Please also remember that in UAE they have been offered 12,000 USD for 3 months compensation and their cars are fractionally cheaper than even the USA. In the UK they have been offered ZERO compensation.

    It is very easy to criticise  without information at hand. We have consulted over 100 GT3 owners and have through a consultative approach decided that its not possible to align compensation with markets. Everyone has had to give or take something in this exercise.. 

    Many of us have taken delivery of our cars (I picked mine up in Switzerland in December and drove 30 days in Europe before shipping to Southern Hemisphere for my annual track day calender in summer). We have been told now not to drive our cars for the last 2 months and this could last another 2 months. Our term deposit rates are 5%. I have paid insurance, road tax  and registration plus the car warranty is ticking and the car is depreciating. On top of that it will never have the engine it left the factory with and which the paperwork corresponds to. How will its future value sit?

    How much is that worth to you Suzy?

    In real costs its far greater than the ZERO most of us have been offered. 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Moser:

    Suzy,

     

    In Lebanon the GT3 costs with some options around 240K, plus a 12k registration fee that you don't get back.... we have 60% customs on cars, so imagine we get the same compensation as the another country like Dubai where the car costs half the price...I heard from the dealer that they negotiated with Porsche Germany for 25K rebate for depreciation for Lebanon car owners

     

    Mo

    With all due respect Mo. Your country charges the 60% tax. Why should Porsche compensate you for something they and their dealer did not take? Think about it. UAE has ZERO import tax. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Don't get ne wrong Macca. I certainly agree with your action, but I simply see some facts that are wrong in my opinion. I know it's easy critisizing for me, since I don't have a GT3. The fact is that because of the various differences in local pricing (which are certainly not only taxes, but also pricing strategy!), Porsche shouldn't compensate everyone equally.  That's just plain wrong IMHO.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Macca,

    Its the cost of keeping a customer satisfied, which is different in every country.... If Porsche offered someone in Lebanon 12k for example they would give back their car and never buy a Porsche again...because they have to pay extra for ownership, the cost of keeping a customer happy varies from country to country.....

    Mo


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Generally speaking most markets our members are from (we have 13 countries represented) display pricing with in a 15% variance range. There are issues of PAG fixing currency for conversion (the Euro:USD cross rate has moved as much as 5% since the 991 GT3 pricing was announced) and no doubt examples of margin manipulation for high volume or competitiveness exist. The USA is an example of such a market.

    for the sake of our excerise we have ignored the potential 15% variance. We have many members currently offered only a 12 month extension of warranty when their cars are finally fixed. We have European customers getting 100 Euro a day with a loan car or 175E without.  Thats not good enough. Porsche have handled the entire situation poorly. The communication has been dismal and its a PR disaster.

    If you were a 991 GT3 owner you will find it easier to understand the fustration. 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Moser:

    Macca,

    Its the cost of keeping a customer satisfied, which is different in every country.... If Porsche offered someone in Lebanon 12k for example they would give back their car and never buy a Porsche again...because they have to pay extra for ownership, the cost of keeping a customer happy varies from country to country.....

    Mo

     

    Sorry Mo. That doesnt wash. If it did it would be like saying Porsche should offer an Arab customer in UAE twice as much as a Lebanese because hes really  wont be happy unless he gets 50K because then it may make a difference and make him happy.

     

    Just because you pay huge taxes on import of your cars is not a reason PAG should pay you twice as much as a customer form Switzerland or Germany IMO. Your logic seems flawed to me...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Without a doubt I understand the frustration and for that matter I completely agree with your initiative to get together with as many fellow GT3-owners as possible. As a group you're always stronger.

    Fact is however, that if Porsche decides to follow your proposals, there will be people that make profit out of it and there will be people that still don't get enough compensation. On the other hand, I will also admit that it os very complicated and difficult to do it right for everyone.  You have to draw a line somewhere to equal things out. I understand that.

    But I also agree with Moser, that people in different countries need different compensation to make them happy. That's why I think that there are differences in compensation offered by Porsche right now. Doesn't take away that the whole situation is handled poorly by Porsche in general. 

    I hope you will all get what you want in the end. That's the most important thing here, but I also hope that there aren 't  any people that make profit out of this compensation proposal. That just wouldn't be fair. For example: An average of $159k for a U.S. GT3 is still a lot less than the base price of a Swiss GT3 excluding import tax and VAT ($188k).


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Macca,

    Gt 3 in leb 240k plus 12k registration

    gt3 dubai 140k maybe 300 usd registration

    give them both equal compensation Lets say 12 k and I guarantee everyone in Lebanon will return the car to the dealer and say give me my money back including registration, and they won't buy a porsche again,. It's tricky for  porsche  to deal with this situation,  but by tailor making compensation  for each country they can keep more clients happy and it will cost them and their dealers less in the long run.  If you live in the  dubai and porsche  said here is 10% compensation for your car for depreciation In the months you haven't  been able to use it  that's about 14k ,  they say the same to a client in Lebanon  who's car cost him  240k  and he get a 24k, I think that's fair 

     

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Macca,

    porsche have handled this wrong from day 1, there will be people who are not happy and they will lose customers those are all facts, I really feel bad for all gt3 owners out their and they should all voice their displeasures as one like you are doing as it has a much larger effect.  GT3 owners are hard core and porsche basically screwed up with their most loyal fan base :( I wish you all luck!!

     

     


     
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