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    Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Does anyone know about this firm?  I am curious about their motor for my 911...

    http://www.lightspeed-classic.de/

    1441299902382collage_lb_image_page14_2_1.png


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    3.8L 340hp motor with Individual Throttles (looks like Slide Valves):

    1441300145735collage_lb_image_page6_4_1.png


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Grant:

    Does anyone know about this firm?  I am curious about their motor for my 911...

    http://www.lightspeed-classic.de/

    1441299902382collage_lb_image_page14_2_1.png


     

     

    This company's engine tuning is done by RS Tuning (Reinhold Schmierler), a well-known Porsche tuner. 


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    fritz


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Yes, I recognized the reference.  I think RC had his 996TT motor done by them, if memory serves.  Looks like serious stuff!

    I guess both RS Tuning and Lightspeed Classics are in Bavaria - maybe I will attempt to visit in a few weeks.  Your suggestion to go right to the source makes sense - probably save some Euros that way.  I tried to contact Cosworth in California (was supplying motors to Singer at the time) and they had an exclusive deal - wouldn't sell me one.

    Singer now using Ed Pink Racing Engines and they will build me a motor (but not one just like they make for Singer).


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Never heard of lightspeed, so I might be judging them wrongly, but they seem like an imitation of the singer... the paintjob with the stripe on the side is the same, the modern headlights, the new mirror, etc etc... everything looks just like singer...
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    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Joost:
    Never heard of lightspeed, so I might be judging them wrongly, but they seem like an imitation of the singer... the paintjob with the stripe on the side is the same, the modern headlights, the new mirror, etc etc... everything looks just like singer...

    I think the headlights are original Porsche H4 lenses:

    collage_lb_image_page3_12_1.png


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Looks like custom hardware for heat exchangers on the headers too (most of these large-displacement hotrods give up heat in the cabin)...

    1441314566011collage_lb_image_page13_3_1.png


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Love the new Slide Valve Fuel Injection too:

    collage_lb_image_page6_1_1.png


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    To not use a Crankfire or similar system is odd. That's a dual plug motor and the twin distributors look cool but  they can't match the performance  of a electronic system. I'd want some deep specifics from their engine builder.  Why not use   Andiall to build you a motor?  They built hundreds of  engines for Porsche Motorsports and  Porsche bought  the company a while back but it still functions independently.

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    I actually prefer the look of a single 12-plug distributor.  Modern air cooled motors use electronic triggering with the mechanical distributors and it's a very reliable and good performing way to go.  There are coil on plug solutions, but they are overly complicated and don't provide that much benefit over a distributor with a custom curve.  Don't think the Crankfire ignitions are that well loved among the top builders.

    I'll give Andial a ring, but I think many of their best folks have retired or relocated.


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    How much is a 12 plug cap and rotor these days?

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    JimFlat6:

    How much is a 12 plug cap and rotor these days?

     

    Cheap - Aaron Burnham (Rennworks) makes a twin-plug Porsche distributor that can use a Jaguar cap and rotor from an old V-12 (maybe XJ-S).

    JB Racing also makes a billet aluminum 12-pin distributor with their own cap/rotor and has adjustable advance (spare parts not that expensive, but more than Jag parts):

    153-000.jpg

    Here's one installed:

    For+Sale+stuff+0301378152094.jpg

    A real vintage Porsche (Bosch) RSR twin-plug distributor (as well as cap & rotor) is rare and expensive:

    3438089891_24bcabac53.jpg


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    it are the details which makes a Singer so special. The Xenon lights, the seats, the tiny modification you barely notice!

    The lighthouse cars seem to be build on a high level of excellence and technic might be even on a higher level.

    The Americans are much better in marketing as we are here in Germany. We tend to be understating and quiet! 


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Grant:

    I tried to contact Cosworth in California (was supplying motors to Singer at the time) and they had an exclusive deal - wouldn't sell me one.

    Singer now using Ed Pink Racing Engines and they will build me a motor (but not one just like they make for Singer).

    That is interesting, is there any indication of why Singer "ditched" Cosworth or was in vice versa ?

    The Cosworth set up looked very professional with extensive engine dyno testing and some big numbers being claimed for the 4 litre motor 390hp/315ftlb but that is the American branch so they will be using US horsepower not the Bavarian kind Smiley 


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.0 bar


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Grant:

    I actually prefer the look of a single 12-plug distributor.  Modern air cooled motors use electronic triggering with the mechanical distributors and it's a very reliable and good performing way to go.  There are coil on plug solutions, but they are overly complicated and don't provide that much benefit over a distributor with a custom curve.  Don't think the Crankfire ignitions are that well loved among the top builders.

    I'll give Andial a ring, but I think many of their best folks have retired or relocated.


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     

    We used an dual-plug, individual throttle body & coilpac EFI set-up from Clewitt http://www.clewett.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_56&products_id=21&zenid=1fff1f8d69a0582d3d195d53476ce12a with Electromotive engine management. It was a 3.0 so we had to use crankfire, if you were going with a 3.4-3.8 you wouldn't need to. It was a very neat and tidy installation and looked very much like period MFI with coilpacs. We were allowed to run it in HSR and SVRA back when they were more strict about period look and feel. 

    I've attached a picture but it shows the car with street airfilters and a huge exhaust to try and quiet it down. I can't remember but I think we were doing a mainstreet show and shine or something at a track with noise restrictions. It usually didn't have plates or that exhaust.

    Yellow RSR Engine.JPG  

    I wouldn't call it too complicated at all, you just have to have someone who knows that they are doing and to stop yourself from dicking around with the set-up once it's done. You also need to spend a good few hours on a dyno with the engine. That 3.0 litre engine ended up making just over 390hp at just under 9000 rpm. We would rev it to 9300-9400. Sounded nice.Smiley


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Yikes - 130hp/L from an aircooled motor is pretty insane (more than any factory street-legal Porsche ever, afaik).  Did it run only on race fuel (really high compression)?  What was the rebuild interval?  Very impressive!


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    TB993tt:
    That is interesting, is there any indication of why Singer "ditched" Cosworth or was in vice versa ?

    Don't know the story at all...


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Grant:
    TB993tt:
    That is interesting, is there any indication of why Singer "ditched" Cosworth or was in vice versa ?

    Don't know the story at all...

    Cosworth closed down their California operation - economically driven decision


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Grant:

    Yikes - 130hp/L from an aircooled motor is pretty insane (more than any factory street-legal Porsche ever, afaik).  Did it run only on race fuel (really high compression)?  What was the rebuild interval?  Very impressive!

    When we had it up to that point it was a full on race engine with a refresh every 40 hours and a full rebuild every 80... We ran 110 octane in it and I think the compression was around 12.5-12.8:1? I can't really remember. It was a fun, fun engine!

    Using the same bases but with a different cam I think you could get a pretty streetable 300-310hp out of a 3.0 as long as you're not looking for a real torque monster. That engine had everything possible done to it though, custom cams, custom pistons, custom Ti rods, Ti valves, springs bolts etc... The inside of the case looked like a mirror as did the knife-edged crank, shuffle pinned, boattailed, tall full radius stacks (the full radius stacks made a huge difference). 


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Thanks! kiss


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Grant, personally if I was looking at a week-end warrior street/trackable engine I would do a 3.2 or 3.3 short stroke. You get more torque than a 3.0 and it's a less stressed engine. I still think spending the money to do all the little things to further unstress the engine (by lowering weight or reducing friction) is more than worth it. So case polishing, spending a good amount of money on the crank, doing carillo rods at the least and Ti springs allow you to do more, easier. 

    Also twin plug! Such a HUGE difference in how the engine runs. 


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Mithras:

    Grant, personally if I was looking at a week-end warrior street/trackable engine I would do a 3.2 or 3.3 short stroke. You get more torque than a 3.0 and it's a less stressed engine. I still think spending the money to do all the little things to further unstress the engine (by lowering weight or reducing friction) is more than worth it. So case polishing, spending a good amount of money on the crank, doing carillo rods at the least and Ti springs allow you to do more, easier. 

    Also twin plug! Such a HUGE difference in how the engine runs. 

    Yep, 3.2SS was my choice originally too.  Trouble is the power and breathing demands are just slightly too much for my MFI and exhaust (unless I surrender power over 6,500 rpm).  I thought if I need to get all new hardware, might as well get something that is a turn-key solution.  But for my car, even a 2.7RS was very fast...


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    I LOVE this thing, maybe even more than the Singers. 

    From Autoblog: 

    The brainchild of former Porsche engineer Ralf Skatulla, the Lightspeed Classic is based on the 964 but upgrades some key components while keeping the classic style. Power comes from a 3.8-liter flat-six from the 964 RS (albeit rebuilt with titanium components) that's been retuned to deliver 340 horsepower. It's got the gearbox from a 996 Turbo, the clutch from a 997 GT3 RS, and the brakes from a 996 GT3 Cup, along with Michelin Pilot Sport rubber coating a set of Fuchs-style BBS alloys.

    Why not enjoy their marketing video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJNTg7CegQ

     

     


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    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Price?


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    Probably the combined price of a 964 RS + 996 Turbo + 997 GT3 RS + 996 GT3 Cup Smiley


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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Lightspeed Classic - Singer competitor from Germany

    SciFrog:

    Price?

    Starting at 160K EUR so that's probably for the entry redo of the 964 engine.. That one is the Classic S and it's got an 3.6L with 280hp. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

     
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