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    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    easy_rider911 said : IMO the reason why the vacuum hose method may have been described as 'dangerous' to Adam2S is because people may not cover the ends with tape well enough to prevent a problem developing.

    Yes easy_rider911, thats right. The problem Andreas had with the vaccum hose method is that if the vaccum system wasnt properly sealed again once disconnected that it could lead to damage elsewhere, he said that even if it was intially sealed there is a risk the seal will subsequently fail but this cannot happen with the brown plug method. The brown plug method was therefore the only totally safe option. Both achived the same result, but one was risky and the other wasnt therefore he would only recommended the brown plug method.

    John H said : Woah woah - hold your horses... you can't suddenly come up with a statement that definitive and that totally conclusive..

    These comments are not mine - they are direct from the mouth of Andreas Preuninger who is the head of GT car development for Porsche. This man clearly knows far far more than any dealer or technician in your our dealership.  Andreas clearly demonstrated his vast technical knowledge of the cars on all areas, he talked about many many technical aspects of the car in great and minute detail. This is the first time Ive heard something this definitive from such a credable source. Also this is not a second hand quote, I and several other customers at the UK GT3 event heard it first hand with our very own ears. There was absolutely no doubt about what he said. In my mind is as conclusive as I think it could ever be!?

    So he wasnt saying the vaccum method wont work, far from it he said both systems will work, and both if done properly are ok. This is big news in itself as it removes the whole doubt if either method at all was a good idea - Ive heard of dealers telling people that the change in back pressure could damage the engine, clearly this is wrong, Andreas said it is safe to disable the baffles as long as it is done correctly.

    It is just that he said one method is risky (but obviously it can work fine for many people), the other method has no risks whatsoever. I know which I will be doing on the next car


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    I've used the "hose" method, since I took delivery of the car, 3 years ago, but had a a very tight plug put in. It has worked fine, but it does sound like the brown plug may be a better/ safer way of doing it.

     


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    When I get my PSE muffler replaced, I'm going to have them cut the bad one open because I'm curious as to what specifically failed in this unit.  Anybody know what the inside looks like, because I want to have them cut it such that it doesn't destroy the failed, floating throttle valve.

    I'd also like to know which of the two mufflers failed, because, like I said earlier, I had a similar problem before.  I wonder if both original muffers eventually failed.

    And, since I'm out of the warranty period, I'll just tell them exactly what I was doing (ie., I disconnected the electrical plug to have the PSE sound always on) and maybe we can get some more information on this issue.

    Lastly, thanks John, for reading the entire thread.  That takes a lot of effort and time. Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Adam2S:
    easy_rider911 said : IMO the reason why the vacuum hose method may have been described as 'dangerous' to Adam2S is because people may not cover the ends with tape well enough to prevent a problem developing.

    Yes easy_rider911, thats right. The problem Andreas had with the vaccum hose method is that if the vaccum system wasnt properly sealed again once disconnected that it could lead to damage elsewhere, he said that even if it was intially sealed there is a risk the seal will subsequently fail but this cannot happen with the brown plug method. The brown plug method was therefore the only totally safe option. Both achived the same result, but one was risky and the other wasnt therefore he would only recommended the brown plug method.

    John H said : Woah woah - hold your horses... you can't suddenly come up with a statement that definitive and that totally conclusive..

    These comments are not mine - they are direct from the mouth of Andreas Preuninger who is the head of GT car development for Porsche. This man clearly knows far far more than any dealer or technician in your our dealership.  Andreas clearly demonstrated his vast technical knowledge of the cars on all areas, he talked about many many technical aspects of the car in great and minute detail. This is the first time Ive heard something this definitive from such a credable source. Also this is not a second hand quote, I and several other customers at the UK GT3 event heard it first hand with our very own ears. There was absolutely no doubt about what he said. In my mind is as conclusive as I think it could ever be!?

    So he wasnt saying the vaccum method wont work, far from it he said both systems will work, and both if done properly are ok. This is big news in itself as it removes the whole doubt if either method at all was a good idea - Ive heard of dealers telling people that the change in back pressure could damage the engine, clearly this is wrong, Andreas said it is safe to disable the baffles as long as it is done correctly.

    It is just that he said one method is risky (but obviously it can work fine for many people), the other method has no risks whatsoever. I know which I will be doing on the next car

    Okay Adam..that's clear enough, thanks.

    It seems to emphasise that properly sealing the tubes on the 'hose method' is critical.  From the beginning it was recommended to plug the tubes as well as taping them - something I think most of us did and paid special attention to.

    Did Andreas expound on what problems/error messages have been associated with the use of the hose method?

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    SoCal Alan:

    When I get my PSE muffler replaced, I'm going to have them cut the bad one open because I'm curious as to what specifically failed in this unit.  Anybody know what the inside looks like, because I want to have them cut it such that it doesn't destroy the failed, floating throttle valve.

    I'd also like to know which of the two mufflers failed, because, like I said earlier, I had a similar problem before.  I wonder if both original muffers eventually failed.

    And, since I'm out of the warranty period, I'll just tell them exactly what I was doing (ie., I disconnected the electrical plug to have the PSE sound always on) and maybe we can get some more information on this issue.

    Lastly, thanks John, for reading the entire thread.  That takes a lot of effort and time. Smiley

    That will be a really useful exercise Alan - please keep us informed - many thanks..

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    John H:
    Did Andreas expound on what problems/error messages have been associated with the use of the hose method?


    Yes, but not directly...

    At the time of talking about the exhaust modification methods he said that failure to seal the vaccum hose method caused other problems elsewhere as the vaccum system was used for several critical other functions around the engine.

    Later other people were asking if the dreaded RMS problem had been sorted on the revised engine. Andreas said they had done a lot of investiagtion into the problem and everytime that had concluded that the problem was to do with a fault in the vaccum system. He said that quite often they had found that people had been tampering with the vaccum system and he felt this was to blame. So he didnt directly say that the exhaust vaccum mod could cause the RMS failure but the inference was pretty much there if you put the two statements together. There was no other failures specifically mentioned in my session.


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Interesting.

    But, of course, there have been many examples of RMS failures on 911's which don't have PSE fitted.

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    He only said quite often it was people tampering with the vaccum system -  but its was always down to vaccum system failures.

    Its quite possible the vaccum system could fail without PSE being fitted or any tampering occuring! The vaccum system is still present on the cars with or without PSE.


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    How can the vacum system affect the Rear Main Seal?

    Also most Boxsters and Carreras don't have the sport exhaust and their RMS failed just the same. If there was any minimal relation why wouldn't Porsche look into the vacum system of those customers when thay came in to repair a leaking RMS? nothing to that realtion was ever included in the repair guides to Porsche dealership shops. And finally, the supposed end or at least reduction of RMS failures in the new 997.2 has been attributed by those related to Porsche to the new design of the crankshaft support in the new DFI engine, which was though to be the problem with the 1998-2008 boxster-carrera engine, never was there any mention to the vacum system. So I find it really hard to believe there is any truth to that part of his statement that tampering with the vacum system is responsable for RMS failures

    SN: My ex-996 had no PSE but had RMS, and my 997 has PSE (with orange connector disabled) but no RMS in 85,000km so far.


    --


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    I dunno and I dont pretend to really understand anything about the RMS myself, but its what Andreas said.

    Here are two other quotes from other guys who were also there at the UK launch. The first guy recored his session so I think its a direct quote - both are postings taken from Rennlist.com where there are threads for the RMS and the UK event. Both mirror the comments Andreas made to our group - seems the RMS failure was quite a hot topic for most GT3 owners??

    Post 1 :

    ME:
    What about the old thing about the RMS leak. WAS it the seal?

    ANDREAS:
    That was the common misunderstanding! We investigated this for about a year! It was a pain in the ass! We didn't know what happened it's NOT the seal. it's the vacuum system of the car but now EVERY dealer should know by now that it's the vacuum system of the car. The seal only works when there is vacuum in the engine, the problem arose a lot when people pulled the pipes to get a louder sound on the exhaust!!!
     

    Post 2: 

    Two RS owners in our group of six had new engines fitted because of this and asked!

    Andreas said that they've discovered the problem is actually the vacuum system being faulty. The seal is designed to work with a vacuum but if a pipe comes off (or you disconnect the pipes so the exhaust valves are always open) then the internal vacuum is lost and the seal doesn't work, hence the oil drips.

    Apparently dealers have been notified they should thoroughly check the vacuum system on any cars exhibiting this issue and the vacuum system and pipes/connectors have been redesigned on the MkII...


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Maybe this is in relation to the 997 GT3 RMS leaks issue and new MK-II carreras? since either of their engines is not like the notorious 1998-2008 Carrera engine in which the RMS was not related to PSE exhausts or vacum tampering. But in these two engines (997GT3 and DFI Carreras) that problem was not present (diffrenet crankshaft support) and if the RMS occasionally appears it may relatated now to tampering of the vacum


    --


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Hi,
    I have just bought a 997 4S with PSE and sports chrono plus. Here is my understanding so far by reading various forums, etc

    1. The loud mode is activated when the sport button is pressed along with sport throttle mapping and a more relaxed PASM setting, etc
    2. Even with the sport button pressed there is a range where the exhaust is in quiet mode, some say 20-40mph others say 30-50mph.
    3. If you disconnect the power from the solenoid in the engine bay the exhaust is permanently in loud mode. (the gates are spring loaded open)
    4. I am assuming that if you apply 12v to the solenoid the exhaust would remain in quiet mode all the time?

    I may have a slightly different requirement to some….
    I like track days and some tracks have strict noise limits (Goodwood – 98db). I believe the PSE in loud mode would far exceed this. I would like to have a quiet exhaust (shame, I know) but still have the sports throttle mapping & PASM and the other sports chrono plus features switched on.

    Please can someone confirm if this would work:

    Insert a 3-way rocker switch as follows:
    Position 1 – Fixed Quiet - find a ignition switched live 12V somewhere and connect to the solenoid.
    Position 2 – Factory - connect the existing wire to the solenoid as per factory fit.
    Position 1 – Fixed Loud - connect nothing to the solenoid (open circuit).

    Any thoughts are welcome….


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    That sounds correct to me.

    I had an extra switch in my C4S.1, installed by the garage, where normally you find the switch to open the roof on the cab. It worked great.

    But, even on loud, I don't think you exeed 98db. I go to a track ( Bresse in France) that has the same policy and never had any problems with PSE on


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    I am in the middle of doing the advanced PSE Mod I described a couple of posts ago. The original instructions say remove the carpet behind the rear seats and unscrew the cover over the electrics to reveal the blue/purple wire. I have a Cab 997 C4S and when I removed the carpet panel behind the top part of the rear 2 seats all I can see is the anti-roll mechanisms that shoot up out of the back if the unthinkable happens! I have installed a 3 way switch (on-off-on) in the engine bay and can get the ‘exhaust always loud’ or ‘loud with sport button’ modes working fine but cannot find a permanent live or 12v ignition switched live in the engine bay to splice into, I thought I did and had everything working perfectly until I closed the engine lid and the interior light went out, DOH! I would really like the switch where I can reach it when driving.

    If you are looking at the back of the car the cable goes from the solenoid into the wiring loom in the right rear wheel arch, does anyone know where it goes from there?

    Does anyone know of a permanent live or 12v ignition switched live in the engine bay to splice into?

    What is the best way to get wires from the engine bay to the inside of the car?

    Any help really appreciated.


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    I do not know the details but here is what I saw at my dealers when they didi it.

    They took out the back seats and back carpets . They told me they put a new cable form the engine bay ( but I do not know where they splice into :-(   ) going all the way to my center console where I had they new switch instaled .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

     Hi Gnil !

    Where did you get this mod installed in Switzerland ?

    How much did you pay for it ?

    And if I understand correctly, by using now 2 different buttons, you can have PSE off, PSE on, and PSE *always* on right ?

    Thx !


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    BangoO:

     Hi Gnil !

    Where did you get this mod installed in Switzerland ?

    How much did you pay for it ?

    And if I understand correctly, by using now 2 different buttons, you can have PSE off, PSE on, and PSE *always* on right ?

    Thx !


    I had that on my 997.1  and with the separete button I could have PSE on, PSE off,  in any mode, or always on ( meaning when I turned on the engine it was on already ) I do not have it on my carrent 997.2 as not needed.

    I had it done at Porsche Lausanne....and I do not recal the price . You can call them , ask for the 'chef' d' atelier' . He will tell you.

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Thx very much Gnil !


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Hi Gents,

    I picked up my first 911 yesterday. 997 C4S with PSE. I'm keen to pull the brown/red plug to enable 'loud' all the time. Does anyone have any views or instructions on how to remove the plug. Do you have to do anything with the clip?Do you slide it up? Wiggle it? etc. I've tried to pull it out and its not having it. Any sugestions would be much appreciated.

    Cheers

    James


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    From memory there is a little spring clip on the end of the plug which ensures it cant fall off by itself. You have the squeeze the steel clip and pull at the same time.  I would recommend pushing it half back on again (ensuring its not enough to engage the contacts) to protect against dirt getting in either end. Worked for me like that for 2 years of ownership.


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Carlos from Spain:

    How can the vacum system affect the Rear Main Seal?

    Also most Boxsters and Carreras don't have the sport exhaust and their RMS failed just the same. If there was any minimal relation why wouldn't Porsche look into the vacum system of those customers when thay came in to repair a leaking RMS? nothing to that realtion was ever included in the repair guides to Porsche dealership shops. And finally, the supposed end or at least reduction of RMS failures in the new 997.2 has been attributed by those related to Porsche to the new design of the crankshaft support in the new DFI engine, which was though to be the problem with the 1998-2008 boxster-carrera engine, never was there any mention to the vacum system. So I find it really hard to believe there is any truth to that part of his statement that tampering with the vacum system is responsable for RMS failures

    SN: My ex-996 had no PSE but had RMS, and my 997 has PSE (with orange connector disabled) but no RMS in 85,000km so far.

    Hello Dear Carlos, from the past.!!!!

    I hope you are well!~ I was wondering, why you shifted from ''our'' original mod method (hose hack), to the orange connector hack? Any problems reported that i missed?

    Also are you still a proud owner of that 997S black?


    --
    heads you live, tails you die


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Hi Dilinger!

    I switched to the connector method because its a "cleaner" way of doing it. I was afraid that having the hose pulled out in the engine bay that it could collect dust inside that could hurt the vacuum system, although the posibility of anything like that happening is probably remote, it was easier to just pull the red connector and not worry.

    I still have the 997S, will eventually change it for a 991S but to tell you the truth the 997S with the manual tranny and with the -20mm is just so fantastic I'm not motivated to run out and get the 991S inmediately. I like this 997S so much that I have 175,000 km on it!!!


    --


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Nice to hear you are good Man,

    I will switch to the same type of mod too then. Heard the tube method might be risky... what can i say

    I m heading to my 911's 9th birthday n February... and although the first two years i got 60.000 i now have only 74.000 as a total...

    Any upgrades/tunes or modifications done on yours? I m thinking of switching from PSE to a Cargraphic or Akrapovic full set with an intake manifold maybe..  Suggestions?

     

     

     


    --
    heads you live, tails you die

    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    kiss

    Haven't thought about changing the exhuast, I really like the Sport Exhaust, it has the perfect loudness, its not bothersome at constant speeds with little humming, and I kind of like to keep things stock myself. But if you want even more agreesive sound or a change of sound, then a full aftermarket set is the way to go, though IMO it would get very expensive for little change if you already have the Sport Exhaust, and to notice any power increase from the full aftermarket set I believe you would also have to reprogram the CPU, which I wouldn't do.


    --


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Thanx Man,

    I was just in the ''trip'', for some aftermarket upgrades like, an intake manifold, catalyst mod etc....

    Sorry for going (full-of topic) ! Anyone tried these kind of mods, or are considered risky for future problems?

    image.jpg

    image (4).jpgimage (2).jpgimage (3).jpg


    --
    heads you live, tails you die


    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Carlos from Spain:

    Hi Dilinger!

    I switched to the connector method because its a "cleaner" way of doing it. 

    Do i need to put something on any part of the connector after disconnecting it? to protect it?


    --
    heads you live, tails you die

    Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - warning

    Dilinger:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Hi Dilinger!

    I switched to the connector method because its a "cleaner" way of doing it. 

    Do i need to put something on any part of the connector after disconnecting it? to protect it?

    I didn't, I just left it there, the worst that can happen is that you need to replace a connector, but after 175,000km its still working fine.


    --


     
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