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    X6M in Autocar

    Good review of the X6M in Autocar.

    The article title is spot on too!

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/stillatthewheel/archive/2009/07/08/bmw-m-that-s-for-marketing-not-motorsport.aspx


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: X6M in Autocar

     looks good inside and out, better than a cayenne imo.


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    reginos:

    Good review of the X6M in Autocar.

    The article title is spot on too!

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/stillatthewheel/archive/2009/07/08/bmw-m-that-s-for-marketing-not-motorsport.aspx

    In my opinion, this article is the typical article written by a journalist who

    1. doesn't like SUVs too much

    2. doesn't own a SUV

    3. doesn't have the need of a SUV (family, kids)

    Maybe I'm wrong but the article is actually something he could have written about ANY high performance SUV on the market, including for example my Cayenne Turbo S.

    Which brings me to the purpose of a high performance SUV: this is no sportscar, not even close to it. How could it be? At 2.2 tons and more (my Cayenne Turbo S hits 3 tons when fully loaded), it is almost impossible to create a very sporty and direct setup.

    So what is the purpose of a high performance SUV? Very simple: fun without too many compromises. It is actually the opposite of a sportscar, it is some sort of a do-it-all vehicle, ready to go everywhere and beyond, no matter how much luggage you have or how the weather is.

    Driving a high performance SUV on the track, even for testing purposes, is ridiculous. The terrain for a high performance SUV is the open road, the Autobahn. I expected Greg Kable to know this better since he lives in Germany.

    People without kids may have a hard time to love high performance SUVs.

    My Cayenne Turbo S is not even close to the fun I have with my 997 Turbo. On the other hand, I love driving the Cayenne Turbo S on long distances with the family and a lot of luggage, simply because I don't have to leave anything important behind...like the kids for example.  Driving a high performance SUV is not only fun, it is a very special experience. It gives family fathers the FEEL of a high performance vehicle in a family car. Believe it or not but sometimes I was faster in my fully loaded SUV on some curvy roads than others in real sportscars. Simply because you can push a modern high performance SUV to the limit without having to worry about safety too much. Most sportscar drivers can't even touch the limit of their cars.

    To appreciate a high performance SUV, you can't go by the sportscar rules. There is something else important, especially straight line performance and high speed stability and of course...the brakes. Greg Kable already established that the X6M has a great straight line performance and fantastic brakes. This is already 90% a high performance SUV needs.

    Why BMW added the "M" badge to the X6? Very simple: it is the "M" version of the SUV X6. Maybe Greg Kable isn't aware of it but funny enough, I don't consider BMW M models to be real sportscars, I rather consider them to be tuned versions of the  regular  BMW models. The X6M isn't much different, so I'm kind of confused why Greg Kable criticizes BMW for providing the "M" badge for the X6M. It deserves it, that simple.

    If the X6M is not a "real" M, the Cayenne Turbo S is not a real Porsche. Well...again...as a longtime Porsche driver/owner I can tell Greg Kable absolutely and 100% for sure that the Cayenne Turbo S IS in fact a very true Porsche. Not a Porsche sportscar but a Porsche high performance SUV. Like the BMW X6M is a BMW high performance SUV. High performance = M devision. Which brings me back to the reason why BMW added the "M" badge to the X6. 

    To make it short: the X6M deserves the "M" badge without any doubt, the article Greg Kable wrote is just a superficial article which shows that Mr. Kable doesn't and didn't understand the purpose of a high performance SUV. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    Actually the BMW M started as a motorsport division in the 70s with the 3.0 CSL and the 3 coloured stripes were introduced adorning racing cars.

    Gradually it became a high(er) performance division especially after the success of the E30 M3, and even a styling division with M body kits, steering wheels etc. The first car with the new direction of M was the M535i in 1979, if I can remember well. This is why the name was changed from BMW Motorsport GmbH to simply BMW M GmbH. Something similar to the transition of  AMG after the company was bought by Mercedes.

    This is BMW's  marketing strategy and this is the point Kable is trying to make. Kable is just not enthusiastic about the development of the M division. This doesn't mean that M cars are not excellent.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    Just like AMG is the hot versions of MB, M cars in BMW are the hot versions, the M letter no longer represent sports cars only.

     

    BMW didn't abuse the M letter on the X6, they ruin the ornginal meaning of M a long time ago. All those so-called M-package cars are not pure-blood M-cars, they were put together to rub off on the M letter only, those were the cars that diluted the M letter. In a sense, the X6M is more M than those M-package cars will ever be, and it's there to restore the glory of the M letter.

    X6M is a 2-ton monster than can beat at least 80% if not 90% of cars/trunks on a track, how many M-package cars can do that? I don't know, X6M is closer to the Motorsports roots than people give it credit for.

     

    P.S. I think Kable probably drives a M-packaged BMW diesel 3 series so he is just jealous with the X6M.


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    Whoopsy:

    Just like AMG is the hot versions of MB, M cars in BMW are the hot versions, the M letter no longer represent sports cars only.

     

    BMW didn't abuse the M letter on the X6, they ruin the ornginal meaning of M a long time ago. All those so-called M-package cars are not pure-blood M-cars, they were put together to rub off on the M letter only, those were the cars that diluted the M letter. In a sense, the X6M is more M than those M-package cars will ever be, and it's there to restore the glory of the M letter.

    X6M is a 2-ton monster than can beat at least 80% if not 90% of cars/trunks on a track, how many M-package cars can do that? I don't know, X6M is closer to the Motorsports roots than people give it credit for.

     

    P.S. I think Kable probably drives a M-packaged BMW diesel 3 series so he is just jealous with the X6M.


    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    just my kind of car......


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6M in Autocar

    RC:

    In my opinion, this article is the typical article written by a journalist who

    1. doesn't like SUVs too much

    2. doesn't own a SUV

    3. doesn't have the need of a SUV (family, kids)

    Maybe I'm wrong but the article is actually something he could have written about ANY high performance SUV on the market, including for example my Cayenne Turbo S.

    Which brings me to the purpose of a high performance SUV: this is no sportscar, not even close to it. How could it be? At 2.2 tons and more (my Cayenne Turbo S hits 3 tons when fully loaded), it is almost impossible to create a very sporty and direct setup.

    So what is the purpose of a high performance SUV? Very simple: fun without too many compromises. It is actually the opposite of a sportscar, it is some sort of a do-it-all vehicle, ready to go everywhere and beyond, no matter how much luggage you have or how the weather is.

    Driving a high performance SUV on the track, even for testing purposes, is ridiculous. The terrain for a high performance SUV is the open road, the Autobahn. I expected Greg Kable to know this better since he lives in Germany.

    People without kids may have a hard time to love high performance SUVs.

    My Cayenne Turbo S is not even close to the fun I have with my 997 Turbo. On the other hand, I love driving the Cayenne Turbo S on long distances with the family and a lot of luggage, simply because I don't have to leave anything important behind...like the kids for example.  Driving a high performance SUV is not only fun, it is a very special experience. It gives family fathers the FEEL of a high performance vehicle in a family car. Believe it or not but sometimes I was faster in my fully loaded SUV on some curvy roads than others in real sportscars. Simply because you can push a modern high performance SUV to the limit without having to worry about safety too much. Most sportscar drivers can't even touch the limit of their cars.

    To appreciate a high performance SUV, you can't go by the sportscar rules. There is something else important, especially straight line performance and high speed stability and of course...the brakes. Greg Kable already established that the X6M has a great straight line performance and fantastic brakes. This is already 90% a high performance SUV needs.

    Why BMW added the "M" badge to the X6? Very simple: it is the "M" version of the SUV X6. Maybe Greg Kable isn't aware of it but funny enough, I don't consider BMW M models to be real sportscars, I rather consider them to be tuned versions of the  regular  BMW models. The X6M isn't much different, so I'm kind of confused why Greg Kable criticizes BMW for providing the "M" badge for the X6M. It deserves it, that simple.

    If the X6M is not a "real" M, the Cayenne Turbo S is not a real Porsche. Well...again...as a longtime Porsche driver/owner I can tell Greg Kable absolutely and 100% for sure that the Cayenne Turbo S IS in fact a very true Porsche. Not a Porsche sportscar but a Porsche high performance SUV. Like the BMW X6M is a BMW high performance SUV. High performance = M devision. Which brings me back to the reason why BMW added the "M" badge to the X6. 

    To make it short: the X6M deserves the "M" badge without any doubt, the article Greg Kable wrote is just a superficial article which shows that Mr. Kable doesn't and didn't understand the purpose of a high performance SUV. 


    I agree with what you say but I prefer, personally, high power diesel engines with for this kind of vehicles.

    Why? Because heavy, high, 4x4 vehicles with big petrol engines consumes lots of fuel.

    An SUV with a powerful diesel engine consumes a lot less with almost the same torque. Consuming double for the same work isn't efficient for me. I  drove a Cayenne Turbo (first generation) by the way, and fuel consumption irritated me. If I were to drive with my family (which I don't have since I'm single) I would want to go fast and be secure but would'nt drive the car as if I were driving a sports car, so a diesel engine with lots of torque and hp would be more than enough for me and it would consume half.  

    Actually, if I'm not driving a sports car, I hate to have too much fuel consumption with heavy vehicles. With the new diesel technology, 3 litre twin turbo engine with 286 hp and 580 NM torque OR 4.0 litre V8 diesel sounds better to me in a 2,5 tons SUV or lux. sedan.

    But this is just me and my way of thinking. I'm sure there are many people out there who wouldn't care about this.

    However, If BMW cancels M3 CSL and Z4 M production, and go for X5 and X6 M instead of powerful "is" models, I do also think that "M" becomes for Marketing instead of Motorsport.


    --
     

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    I'm not against M models of X5, X6 or 7 series.

    But BMW starts making M models for Marketing purposes.

    Leaving out Z4 M and M3 CSL from the model range is a big shame for BMW. They can produce SUVs and lux. sedans with M badge to earn more money but this should be done to make less cost effective true M cars.

    This is what I really like about Porsche.

    They do make SUVs, cayman and now the Panamera,  but they do also build GT3 with a very affordable price. This is what BMW should do, IMO.

     


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    Z4 M will be produced, just probably later in the model cycle. Just like the previous generation Z4, BMW initially said there will be no M versions, but soon enough, a M coupe and a M convertible appeared. They are just saying it to make people buy the existing versions instead of holding back and wait for the M versions. And if those customers want the M versions, they will have to buy again in 2-3 years.

    BMW still have no plans for a M7, which will be super nice competitor to S8 and S63, too bad they don't tap that market.

    Diesel is popular in Europe only, the Americans still haven't warm up to it and BMW don't have a big enough market there to warrant developing a high power diesel a la VW's one. One problem with high output diesel is that they are heavier than regular petrol engines, and that weight gain is on top of a already heavy SUV, likely pushing it into unmanagable level. Big having said that, I don't mind a turbo charged diesel which can do sub 5 seconds 0-60, if only something like that exists. Engines with a powerful low end is much more suited to SUVs than a high rpm engine like the AMG 63, that engine has an amazing top end but get trashed by the 55 Kompressor.  What BMW is putting into the X5/6M is almost the perfect engine, twin turbo V8 with bottomless low end torque.

     

     

     


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    Whoopsy:

    Z4 M will be produced, just probably later in the model cycle. Just like the previous generation Z4, BMW initially said there will be no M versions, but soon enough, a M coupe and a M convertible appeared. They are just saying it to make people buy the existing versions instead of holding back and wait for the M versions. And if those customers want the M versions, they will have to buy again in 2-3 years.

    BMW still have no plans for a M7, which will be super nice competitor to S8 and S63, too bad they don't tap that market.

    Diesel is popular in Europe only, the Americans still haven't warm up to it and BMW don't have a big enough market there to warrant developing a high power diesel a la VW's one. One problem with high output diesel is that they are heavier than regular petrol engines, and that weight gain is on top of a already heavy SUV, likely pushing it into unmanagable level. Big having said that, I don't mind a turbo charged diesel which can do sub 5 seconds 0-60, if only something like that exists. Engines with a powerful low end is much more suited to SUVs than a high rpm engine like the AMG 63, that engine has an amazing top end but get trashed by the 55 Kompressor.  What BMW is putting into the X5/6M is almost the perfect engine, twin turbo V8 with bottomless low end torque.

    I hope BMW will do the same and make an M version of Z4 in a few years since the new car is very nice looking especially the front facia and has very nice interior.

    I'm also still expecting a CSL version of M3 in a year or so. But NO word yet.

    As for the new twin turbo V8 engines, I do also think that it will perfectly fit in a SUV and a lux. sedan such as M7 if it ever produced BUT IMO, M3/Z4 engines and M5 engine should be N/A. I haven't driven twin turbo 3.0L BMW engined car but I have a Audi TTS coupe with a 2.0L turbo engine which makes out 272hp; and around 305 hp with a stage 1 software and it is not as nice as my E46 M3 evenif it is as fast as E46 M3, if not faster.

    I still believe a sports car has to have a high revved N/A engine with some torque at the bottom; like a GT3 engine or the new V8 in the M3 (only problem is it is too thirsty unlike Porche's 3.8)


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    By natual high-rev N/A engines will have poor low-end, it needs displacement to boost low-end torque, but with big enough displacement the engine can't rev too high, one cannot have both.

     


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    Whoopsy:

    By natual high-rev N/A engines will have poor low-end, it needs displacement to boost low-end torque, but with big enough displacement the engine can't rev too high, one cannot have both.

     

    Then to be more specific, IMO, GT3's 3.8 L N/A engine with 435 hp, revved up to 8500 rpm with plenty of torque around 420 NM is pretty good.

    Again, V8 M3 engine with 4.0L displacement can rev up to 8500 rpm, has 420 hp and around 430 NM torque which is good too.

     


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: X6M in Autocar

    GT3 engine doesn't hit it's peak torque until 6200rpm, it only makes 230Nm at 2000rpm, 250Nm at 3000 rpm, 265Nm at 4000 rpm.

    V8 in M3 does quite a bit better, 340Nm at 2000 rpm, 380NM at 3000 rpm, 400Nm at 4000 rpm, it's a flat plateau, never makes less than 380 from 3000 rpm to 7500 rpm. Now that a much more usable engine than the GT3's 3.8. Most of the torque is very usable. It's is actually a gem of an engine that BMW put in the M3.

    By comparison,

    The 997TT has a flat torque at 620Nm from 2000 rpm to 5000 rpm.

    The Turbo V8 in X6 has 610Nm from 1800 to 4500.

    AMG's 6.3 has 500NM at 2000 rpm, rising to 630NM at 5200 rpm and revs to 7000rpm.

     

     


     
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