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    Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    What a race! Just when F1 seems to be getting boring, leave it to the weather to spice it up. Few observations:

    -Phenomenal MS. Did anyone think by lap 5 that he could makeup the 20 second gap he had dug himself in? Simply brilliant race. I also thought it was funny that they test-pigeoned the slicks on Massa before putting them on Schumi. Great stuff!!

    -Unfortunate race again for Raikkonen who came out of the gates showing what he really is capable of. He probably doesn't like Ron Dennis so much

    -What was the problem with Alonso's car by midrace? I thought it might have been a transmission issue (missing 3rd gear) but it appears to be his driving technique put massive wear on his front tyres (his unconventional heavy steer-in line). Conservation my friend, conservation...

    -I felt real bad for Kubica for switching to the slicks too early. He's so talented, could have finished top 5 had they not made that gaff. It was apparent that he would lose control right after he got out of the pits. Funny yet tragic. Look out for RK in the next few years. Big time...

    -Button once again qualifies high then seems to fade away. I thought he was a complete non-factor.

    -Speaking of non-factors, what is Felipe Massa doing, churning off best laps, follwed by spinouts followed by locking up infront of DC and exiting without getting Ferrari a point! He is reckless and lacks control...talented but unharnessed, he seems like a glorified test-driver, a more refined Taku Sato...

    -Suzuka and Brazil should be GREAT. It's all tied up folks. It hasn't been this good in a LONG TIME


    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    -Phenomenal MS. Did anyone think by lap 5 that he could makeup the 20 second gap he had dug himself in? Simply brilliant race. I also thought it was funny that they test-pigeoned the slicks on Massa before putting them on Schumi. Great stuff!!



    Actually yes. Its was noted before the race that the Michelin had the advantage in the complete wet (like in qualifying) and complete dry, but on the other hand the Bridgestones were in turn much superior in the in-between humid/mod-light wet conditions. As it stopped raining before the race and didn't rain during the race, it was obvious the situation was turning into Bridgestone driver's hands as shown by their lap times.

    So no big surprises there. Just like weather conditions in qualifying favored the Michelins masively, the race conditions in turn favored Bridgestone masively. That coupled with Kimi being deprived of being able to compete once again, and the same rear-right tire mechanic that caused Alonso to loose a tire during the past GP, caused Alonso a 19 second pit stop today (somebody please fire this mechanic), and schmacher and his team making no mistakes, leads to the result we had today.



    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    -Unfortunate race again for Raikkonen who came out of the gates showing what he really is capable of. He probably doesn't like Ron Dennis so much



    More than unfortunate, that is simply sick. He seemed to be one of the fastest guys in the race today aside from Alonso, and would have been a nice race finish with him in the race.


    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    -What was the problem with Alonso's car by midrace? I thought it might have been a transmission issue (missing 3rd gear) but it appears to be his driving technique put massive wear on his front tyres (his unconventional heavy steer-in line). Conservation my friend, conservation...




    Unfortunately sometimes with certain TV coverages its hard to see what factors at at play and we formulate wrong conclusions. The reason for Fernando's change in lap pace is that in his first pit stop, they changed his front tires. Up until that moment he was lapping consistent 44,5's one after the other, after the change in front tires his pace droped by 4 seconds. Menawhile, with Fisi they did not change the front tires and his pace continued the same. So Alonso's advantage disappaeared and was clearly evident what was the correct choice. There was nothing he can do. Only until the second pit stop when they changed his 4 tires to slicks and started to put out fastest lap of the race after fastest lap, but was too late.

    It had nothing to do with mechanical failure nor putting excesive wear on anything, the drop in pace came when putting new tires on the front instead of keeping the old ones on like everybody else. If someone knows about conservation that is Alonso, the one of the most reliable drivers in the lineup in that sense, known for adapting his race paces back and fourth during a race depending on tire and mechanical strain and race needs.


    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    -Suzuka and Brazil should be GREAT. It's all tied up folks. It hasn't been this good in a LONG TIME



    Unfortunaltely, the only reason the championship is so close is not becuase of what has happenend on the track but outside the track lately with outside help otherwise the championship would have been settled already like last year, nevertheless it makes it more exiting for us viewers.

    All in all, it was a boring race IMO. Being in the rain I was expecting much more fun but it was nothing like Hungary GP. It was al down to tires this weekend, both in qualifying and in the race.

    Whats' up with Fisi's screw up in turn one after the 2nd pit stop? why open the steering and let Schumi a perfect place to pass? why so conservative? he is going to get called by Flavio Briatore after the race after his non-team race driving today.

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Whats' up with Fisi's screw up in turn one after the 2nd pit stop? why open the steering and let Schumi a perfect place to pass? why so conservative? he is going to get called by Flavio Briatore after the race after his non-team race driving today.


    Are you suggesting he should have pushed Schumi out?? Schumi already had to go off track to avoid him...

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Whats' up with Fisi's screw up in turn one after the 2nd pit stop? why open the steering and let Schumi a perfect place to pass? why so conservative? he is going to get called by Flavio Briatore after the race after his non-team race driving today.


    Are you suggesting he should have pushed Schumi out?? Schumi already had to go off track to avoid him...



    Of course not, but Fisi had the lead & inside line no matter how slow he was taking it, he should of been more aggresive and should not have given it up. There would be no "pushig out" by Fisico, Schumi jumped in were there was no space and is the one who would be doing the "pushing out" in that case. Shumi took a tremendous risk by sticking his car in that half a car space, thats why he had to go on the grass, but it paid out because Fisi opened the steering and let him have the whole space in the end. I guarantee you that if it were Kimi or Alonso in that situation, Schumi would not have passed.

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Whats' up with Fisi's screw up in turn one after the 2nd pit stop? why open the steering and let Schumi a perfect place to pass? why so conservative? he is going to get called by Flavio Briatore after the race after his non-team race driving today.


    Are you suggesting he should have pushed Schumi out?? Schumi already had to go off track to avoid him...




    Jeannot I would suggest Schumi to go and hug reanault team instead of his team at the end of race..

    I mean apart from the slow laps of alonso in the ecuator of the race, due to those new tires....at the end of the day he was the fastest not only on rain (which everyone know) but also on dry......But anyway my point is why while changing rear tires, the TEAM looses another 11seconds or so by having problems with the rear tire, in total 19.7seconds for the pit stop !!!!......I mean this is something similar to what happened in the other gp when alonso lost the rear tire due to an error of one of the pit crew...


    If today's pit stop of nearly 20seconds didnt happened, i am sure alonso would have won the race, and no matter how slow he was performing at the middle of the race, at the end he was only 3 seconds behind miachael, and of course he started doing multiple record laps....

    So again from my point of view schumi should go and hug renault team for this....


    At this point a formula 1 team candidate for winning the world champion for 2 consecutive times, should not even do this errors while trainning...Anyway may be it was AGAIN bad luck to Alonso and renault.....And who said that Alonso was really a lucky guy????..not only this season, but also in 2005 for winning the world title....

    Well Fisico did a great race, but again that BIG error letting the door open (wide open) to "Mr.cheater" ...ups I meant Michael Schumacher !!! was probably the worse thing of the race...

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Whats' up with Fisi's screw up in turn one after the 2nd pit stop? why open the steering and let Schumi a perfect place to pass? why so conservative? he is going to get called by Flavio Briatore after the race after his non-team race driving today.


    Are you suggesting he should have pushed Schumi out?? Schumi already had to go off track to avoid him...



    Of course not, but Fisi had the lead & inside line no matter how slow he was taking it, he should of been more aggresive and should not have given it up. There would be no "pushig out" by Fisico, Schumi jumped in were there was no space and is the one who would be doing the "pushing out" in that case. Shumi took a tremendous risk by sticking his car in that half a car space, thats why he had to go on the grass, but it paid out because Fisi opened the steering and let him have the whole space in the end. I guarantee you that if it were Kimi or Alonso in that situation, Schumi would not have passed.



    Check the video footage again. Fisi is struggling for grip, his car is all over the place and then Schumi comes from behind at much higher speed WITH grip. Fisi did the only wise and possible thing: Watch Schumi pass.
    Fisi opened the door on his right because he didnt have grip in the corner. Then Schumi took that opening, and suddenly Fisi had a bit of grip again. Hence the near collision. I truly hate the way Schumi often drives like a maniac, but this was pretty straight forward IMO.

    Very interesting and entertaining race!
    Never got to see what happened the last 10 laps. How come Alonso cought Fisi? He was 10 secs behind. Did Fisi fake a mistake or simply let him pass due to team orders?

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    I guarantee you that if it were Kimi or Alonso in that situation, Schumi would not have passed.


    But he did...
    Cannot blame Schumi for taking his chance. No mistake week-end for him and his team. Brilliant qualifying with less performant tyres...Bad day for Renault...
    Of course, easier to call him a cheater...(tough not your comment)

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Unfortunaltely, the only reason the championship is so close is not becuase of what has happenend on the track but outside the track lately with outside help otherwise the championship would have been settled already like last year (...)



    Yes, it's such a pity that everyone is trying to steal the championship from Feminando.
    If he doesnt win this year, it must be because of fraud and corruption. It couldn't possibly be because Renault and Allafando herself are throwing away the championship and that Ferrari is doing a better job. Of course not.

    Maybe someone paid the mechanics to mess up Allafando's car? No! Wait! Flamboyo Penetratore is on the Ferrari payroll! Yes! THat's it! They all plot to stop Feminando! Maybe the chinese has a secret weather control system that kept the track too damp for Allafando?

    Last year the championship was not handed to Allahando because Kimi's car kept breaking down. Oh no. It was because Feminando is such a skilled driver! How can I forget.

    I like your logic:
    If Allafando wins = No corruption, just skill.
    If Alhomso loses = Ferrari cheats, Allafando has bad luck or the FIA is corrupt.

    Damn, I just realized....
    With a post like this I may actually get elected president of the official Feminando Homonso Fan Club!!!

    I think both members will be thrilled!

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Unfortunaltely, the only reason the championship is so close is not becuase of what has happenend on the track but outside the track lately with outside help otherwise the championship would have been settled already like last year (...)



    Yes, it's such a pity that everyone is trying to steal the championship from Feminando.
    If he doesnt win this year, it must be because of fraud and corruption. It couldn't possibly be because Renault and Allafando herself are throwing away the championship and that Ferrari is doing a better job. Of course not.

    Maybe someone paid the mechanics to mess up Allafando's car? No! Wait! Flamboyo Penetratore is on the Ferrari payroll! Yes! THat's it! They all plot to stop Feminando! Maybe the chinese has a secret weather control system that kept the track too damp for Allafando?

    Last year the championship was not handed to Allahando because Kimi's car kept breaking down. Oh no. It was because Feminando is such a skilled driver! How can I forget.

    I like your logic:
    If Allafando wins = No corruption, just skill.
    If Alhomso loses = Ferrari cheats, Allafando has bad luck or the FIA is corrupt.

    Damn, I just realized....
    With a post like this I may actually get elected president of the official Feminando Homonso Fan Club!!!

    I think both members will be thrilled!



    "See Dr. Phil and Carlos from Spain meet live and discuss Formula 1" just added to my 10 things to do before I die list.

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    "See Dr. Phil and Carlos from Spain meet live and discuss Formula 1" just added to my 10 things to do before I die list.



    With Raikko joining Ferrari next year, the rennteam version of these talks will be even more interesting

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    "See Dr. Phil and Carlos from Spain meet live and discuss Formula 1" just added to my 10 things to do before I die list.



    With Raikko joining Ferrari next year, the rennteam version of these talks will be even more interesting



    Next season the only talking Carlos and I will have will be me asking him: "Would you like a hankie?"
    I have told him many times, but he wont listen: Homso is a flash in the pan, he should enjoy the lucky "win" last year and realize that lack of talent and only thriving on others misfortune only takes you so far in F1.

    But who knows? Anything can happen in F1. I could be wrong.



    ....pfffff...! Who am I kidding? I am never wrong!

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    But he did...
    Cannot blame Schumi for taking his chance. No mistake week-end for him and his team. Brilliant qualifying with less performant tyres...Bad day for Renault...
    Of course, easier to call him a cheater...(tough not your comment)



    Indeed, Shumi saw it coming before hand and went for it, hats off to schumi, he did nothing wrong in that move. Button and Fisi are the biggest push overs in passing, they are sometimes like "moving chicanes" and Schumi knew it.

    Like I said before, Schumi AND his team made no mistakes today. Renault's team made too many. Ferrari deserved the win.

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Check the video footage again. Fisi is struggling for grip, his car is all over the place and then Schumi comes from behind at much higher speed WITH grip. Fisi did the only wise and possible thing: Watch Schumi pass.
    Fisi opened the door on his right because he didnt have grip in the corner. Then Schumi took that opening, and suddenly Fisi had a bit of grip again. Hence the near collision. I truly hate the way Schumi often drives like a maniac, but this was pretty straight forward IMO.


    Sorry but 1* Fisico understeers into turn n*1 due to cold new tires (something that had been happening to many other drivers), 2* Schumi calls it and jumps into the half car space left by Fisi, 3* Fisi regains grip and the space does not open up for Schumi so he needs to step on the grass, 4* the critical part: Fisico still having the lead in the corner sees Schumi there and fearing collision voluntarily opens the steering letting Schumi have the space and pass by. Schumi took a gamble that Fisi was going to back out and won it. A driver such a Kimi or Alonso would have continued his line and would of closed the door for Schumi causing Schumi not to made the curve in front, more risky? yes but Schumi was taking the risk not the other driver.



    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Never got to see what happened the last 10 laps. How come Alonso cought Fisi? He was 10 secs behind. Did Fisi fake a mistake or simply let him pass due to team orders?



    Funny how that would be your conclusion to what must of happened. Nope Fisi made no mistakes. Nope Fisi did not let him pass. As soon as Alonso got off those intermediates that cost him 4 senc per lap, and put the slicks on, he started to storm up the track making fastest lap after factest lap consecutively, dropping everybody behind, stormed past Fisico, and alomos catching Schumi (though Schumi was drivinig conservatively at the end managing his lead so as not to take risks).

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    "See Dr. Phil and Carlos from Spain meet live and discuss Formula 1" just added to my 10 things to do before I die list.



    On live meeting yes, would be interesting guaranteed, but on the board not likely, don't have that much time to waist so I simply skip through the overly repetitive trying-to-be-funny posts

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    "See Dr. Phil and Carlos from Spain meet live and discuss Formula 1" just added to my 10 things to do before I die list.



    On live meeting yes, would be interesting guaranteed, but on the board not likely, don't have that much time to waist so I simply skip through the overly repetitive trying-to-be-funny posts



    Never beter said......Why to spend energy?....to be "funny", "original"? ......still, I had not a single serious reply to a question I did some weeks ago refereing to Monza...."Why was Alonso punished"?"

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    "See Dr. Phil and Carlos from Spain meet live and discuss Formula 1" just added to my 10 things to do before I die list.



    On live meeting yes, would be interesting guaranteed, but on the board not likely, don't have that much time to waist so I simply skip through the overly repetitive trying-to-be-funny posts



    Oh, dont be so hard on yourself!
    You have some funny posts once on a while. Really, you do. Perhaps not deliberately funny, but still...



    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Byron said:
    Never beter said......Why to spend energy?....to be "funny", "original"? ......still, I had not a single serious reply to a question I did some weeks ago refereing to Monza...."Why was Alonso punished"?"



    OK, I'll give u a serious answer. I believe your question deserves one:
    According to FIA rules Paragraph 23 section D, paragraph 4 it is "not allowed for a Formula One pilot to be under the height of 140 centimeters during qualification." And FIA also stated that "the distinct smell of lavender oozing from Fernando Alonso's vehicle is in violation with FIA penal code 45 section F, which clearly prohibits the use of F1 pilots of unknown gender."

    Personally, I think it's a bit hard that the FIA penalized Alonso for being a girlieman. I tell you, I think there is something smelly going on in the FIA!

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Funny how that would be your conclusion to what must of happened. Nope Fisi made no mistakes. Nope Fisi did not let him pass. As soon as Alonso got off those intermediates that cost him 4 senc per lap, and put the slicks on, he started to storm up the track making fastest lap after factest lap consecutively, dropping everybody behind, stormed past Fisico, and alomos catching Schumi (though Schumi was drivinig conservatively at the end managing his lead so as not to take risks).



    Sounds like he was doing some fast driving and almost won if only he hadn't had all those technical challenges.
    But dont worry. We will all remember him for at least 2 weeks after the championship as the driver who almost won twice.
    That oughtta count for something, right?


    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Sorry but 1* Fisico understeers into turn n*1 due to cold new tires (something that had been happening to many other drivers), 2* Schumi calls it and jumps into the half car space left by Fisi, 3* Fisi regains grip and the space does not open up for Schumi so he needs to step on the grass, 4* the critical part: Fisico still having the lead in the corner sees Schumi there and fearing collision voluntarily opens the steering letting Schumi have the space and pass by. Schumi took a gamble that Fisi was going to back out and won it. A driver such a Kimi or Alonso would have continued his line and would of closed the door for Schumi causing Schumi not to made the curve in front, more risky? yes but Schumi was taking the risk not the other driver.




    I dont think any other driver would have shut the door on Schumi in that situation. The speed diff was much too big IMO, and the risk too apparent.
    I can understand why u would think Fisi is to blame for Alonso's bad result today, but Alonso can only blame himself, his team and their mechanics.
    And let's not forget that Schumi aint exactly a spring chicken. He did a good job today.

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    -What was the problem with Alonso's car by midrace? I thought it might have been a transmission issue (missing 3rd gear) but it appears to be his driving technique put massive wear on his front tyres (his unconventional heavy steer-in line). Conservation my friend, conservation...




    A great race indeed, one of the most entertaining of the whole season. And best of all, it lasted the whole race until the last lap


    Alonso on his problems:
    Quote:
    In retrospect, Alonso might still have won in China had a wheel-nut not fallen from its perch inside one of the team's airguns at the second stop, but the Spaniard himself reckoned the damage was done once he'd changed those worn fronts.

    "For sure today we lost one big opportunity and I had this nine or 10 laps in the race that I was completely off the pace and too slow and I think the race finished there," he said.

    "We decided to change the front tyres because the left front was nearly a slick, but it wasn't the ideal thing to do because Michael and Giancarlo [Fisichella] did not change tyres, they came very close to me and then they disappeared," he explained.

    "We then took the risk to and try to put on dry tyres and find a miracle, but it was too late."

    And even though he believed it cost him the win, Alonso still wasn't sure that changing the front tyres was an entirely bad call.

    "For sure with the 20 second gap to the cars behind the best option is to leave the tyres on, but when you come to the pits and your front left is nearly slick then maybe you have to change because you have to do another 20 laps on it," he said.

    "There is a safety issue as well.

    "After that, the only thing we could do was go to dry tyres as early as possible - and hope to catch up the time to Michael.

    "In the end, there were not enough laps left."




    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    If Alonso thinks he has problems now, wait till next year when he doesn't even finish races! Doesn't he see what's been happening to Kimi for the last two seasons at McLaren? They haven't been able to build a competitive car that will finish races on a consistant bases.

    GREAT race though. Alonso said that when he changed the fronts for new intermediate tires that the grip wasn't as good as the worn intermediates (which Fisi and MS kept on). He said he just had to drive them hard for five or six laps to get them to wear down before he could run competitive times. That's why he slowed mid race.

    Re: Great F1 Race *spoilers inside*

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    According to FIA rules Paragraph 23 section D, paragraph 4 it is "not allowed for a Formula One pilot to be under the height of 140 centimeters during qualification." And FIA also stated that "the distinct smell of lavender oozing from Fernando Alonso's vehicle is in violation with FIA penal code 45 section F, which clearly prohibits the use of F1 pilots of unknown gender."

    Personally, I think it's a bit hard that the FIA penalized Alonso for being a girlieman.



    You know, some times at night, I lie awake and ask myself, if you really find it funny for yourself. I don't.

    Those discussions will never end up and one reason for this is the fact that not all cars are equal in F1 racing. They never will be! So unlike Tennis or Soccer, there will always be the freedom of doubt.

     
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