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    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    @gordonmurrayautomotive


    T-minus 24 hours until the global unveiling of Gordon Murray Automotive's T.50 Supercar.

    ‘The long anticipated event will be available to watch at 17:00 BST on our website, where @dario_franchitti DarioFranchitti and I will unveil T.50. Hope you can join us!’ - Gordon

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Its going to be the CAR!

    For me it is much better than AM Valkyrie. AM has a very poor marketing, saying the road car will be faster than f1 and lmp1 (on development period). Now they say they are faster than lmp2. What’s next? BWOAH...


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Grant:
    Whoopsy:
    -specific engine output per litre. Current production record is the 458 Speciale, ~134hp per litre, Valkyrie should be having 154hp per litre, the T-50 is suppose to smashed that to about 168hp per litre. To produce such an engine without regular rebuilds will be a very tough job, these are road cars, not race cars.

    -12,000rpm. Same reasoning as above. 

    I think the engine output goals for the Valkyrie are far more ambitious than for the T50.  Remember that the Valkyrie has 6.5L and the T50 is lower than 4 Liters with same number of cylinders.  Piston speeds and moving masses will be much lower with T50 than Valkyrie, despite 1,000 rpm higher redline.

    The cylinder size of the Valkyrie is well over 60% larger than T50.  T50's cylinder size (~330cc) is very close to the theoretically perfect size for revving and making power per l.  This why F1 engines adopted V10 engines when the new regs put displacement limit at 3.0L (had been 3.5L when many used V12 - pretty close to T50's 3.9-4.0L and nowhere near Valkyrie's 6.5L).

    Yes, the valvetrain will have to be very good to spin that fast...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Yeah the Aston will already have piston speed between 25m-26m/second, blowing past 918's 24.7m/s and Speciale's 24.3m/second.

    25m/s was the acceptable practical limit for street cars before. Will be interesting to see what speed the T-50 engine achieves.

    Aston needed the bigger displacement to achieve their HP target, Gordon Murray has a lower Hp target so a smaller engine can be used. 

    Will also be interesting to see how Gordon intend to tame the engine's lower rpm behaviour, Aston paired theirs with a hybrid to help out and Gordon went without.


    --

     

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Whoopsy:
    Will also be interesting to see how Gordon intend to tame the engine's lower rpm behaviour, Aston paired theirs with a hybrid to help out and Gordon went without.

    Is it really that challenging with 4L and 1,000 kg to move?  I would think it should pull pretty well down low with variable valve timing and modern ECU.  I know it's tricky trying to adapt a tiny modern F1 engine for the road, but this seems less challenging.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    As I recall, based on pics of the Valkyrie, ingress and egress for the target demographic (wealthy people, who are often older and feature more padding) may be challenging given the doors and tub.


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Guest:

    As I recall, based on pics of the Valkyrie, ingress and egress for the target demographic (wealthy people, who are often older and feature more padding) may be challenging given the doors and tub.

     

    For some it will be quite an event.  I do know of one McLaren F1 owner who does not drive his car as he no longer can get in/out of it (he put on quite a bit of weight).


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    8DDDE0D6-71F2-4878-B7A9-DD3ED6BAE113.jpeg

    E0F26BDD-E91B-4EF4-964B-7C4204B9E420.gif


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Not sure I am that amazed by the thinner windshield...we all know how this can end on public roads.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Global Premiere in 22min

    Live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGw2NDgERgI


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50



















     


    4.0l V10 654HP and 467Nm
    redline of 12,100 revs.
    986Kg

     

     

    £2.36 million before taxes ($3.08 million at current exchange rates) for them.

     

     

     

     

    The 15.75-inch (400-millimeter) rear-mounted fan is among the T.50's most fascinating features. The piece spins at up to 7,000 rpm and runs on a 48-volt electric motor.  It works with the active rear spoilers and diffusers to increase downforce by 50 percent in normal driving or by 100 percent in its Braking mode. The system also functions as ram-air induction for the engine to increase the powerplant's output by around 49 hp (37 kW).

     

     

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    RC:

    Not sure I am that amazed by the thinner windshield...we all know how this can end on public roads.

    Gorilla Glass and its successors have changed glass technology so there is less concern about using thinner glass than in decades past.  Cost, however, remains an impediment to adoption in most automobile applications.  The T.50 has fewer cost issues than most cars. 


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Looks like they beat their own weight target, only 980kg, 2,161 pounds


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Grant:

    Looks like they beat their own weight target, only 980kg, 2,161 pounds

    And it is shorted than a Porsche Cayman too.



    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Thanks for posting!


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Ok, who is ordering one?

    I like it. A lot indecision


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    This car looks amazing.

    Hope they deliver it without problems.


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Guest:

    As I recall, based on pics of the Valkyrie, ingress and egress for the target demographic (wealthy people, who are often older and feature more padding) may be challenging given the doors and tub.

     

    More like awkward. I know of a couple buyers. At least they are, not that old.

    It was literally the same shape as a F1 cockpit.


    --

     

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Grant:
    Whoopsy:
    Will also be interesting to see how Gordon intend to tame the engine's lower rpm behaviour, Aston paired theirs with a hybrid to help out and Gordon went without.

    Is it really that challenging with 4L and 1,000 kg to move?  I would think it should pull pretty well down low with variable valve timing and modern ECU.  I know it's tricky trying to adapt a tiny modern F1 engine for the road, but this seems less challenging.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    See no farther than the AMG car.

    As for the T-50, I wish buyers luck that it will come to fruition.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Whoopsy:
    Grant:
    Whoopsy:
    Will also be interesting to see how Gordon intend to tame the engine's lower rpm behaviour, Aston paired theirs with a hybrid to help out and Gordon went without.

    Is it really that challenging with 4L and 1,000 kg to move?  I would think it should pull pretty well down low with variable valve timing and modern ECU.  I know it's tricky trying to adapt a tiny modern F1 engine for the road, but this seems less challenging.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    See no farther than the AMG car.

    As for the T-50, I wish buyers luck that it will come to fruition.

     

    That's what I had in mind when I wrote this.  In the Harry's Garage interview, Gordon made it sound like the T50 makes lots of torque at low rpm (71% of max torque in power mode at 2,500 rpm and even more in torque mode)


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Wow oh wow angel what a thing!


    --

    2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    What a car angel


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    +1

    Looks great, very fascinating piece of art from Gordon Murray!! kiss


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Grant:
    Whoopsy:
    Grant:
    Whoopsy:
    Will also be interesting to see how Gordon intend to tame the engine's lower rpm behaviour, Aston paired theirs with a hybrid to help out and Gordon went without.

    Is it really that challenging with 4L and 1,000 kg to move?  I would think it should pull pretty well down low with variable valve timing and modern ECU.  I know it's tricky trying to adapt a tiny modern F1 engine for the road, but this seems less challenging.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    See no farther than the AMG car.

    As for the T-50, I wish buyers luck that it will come to fruition.

     

    That's what I had in mind when I wrote this.  In the Harry's Garage interview, Gordon made it sound like the T50 makes lots of torque at low rpm (71% of max torque in power mode at 2,500 rpm and even more in torque mode)

     

    Sounds awesome on paper, but then it's only 270lb-ft or so. But then again the T-50 will be 1000lb less than the Speciale.

    When I was driving my Speciale, there is no fun, no 'punch' below at least 3500rpm. Waiting for the revs to build up to get into the power band is worse than waiting for turbo boost. One of my biggest knock on high output NA cars, they are all tuned for high rpm and sacrifices the low end.

    Felt the same thing in the GT3RS also. As for the 918, I rarely drive it in engine only mode, so the hybrid system is always helping down low.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    What a brilliant car. angelangelangel

    It may look a bit bland at the front at first sight, but after watching Harry‘s video (absolutely loved it as always), it all goes together so well. Would love to buy one, it‘s the ultimate sports car to me. kiss


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Rossi:

    What a brilliant car. angelangelangel

    It may look a bit bland at the front at first sight, but after watching Harry‘s video (absolutely loved it as always), it all goes together so well. Would love to buy one, it‘s the ultimate sports car to me. kiss

    +1 but two things I don’t understand. The rear design really does not fit, though I am aware it has a function. Could he not have deviated a bit from that old design ? 

    The other thing I simply cannot understand is the manual gearbox. He is so committed to use the latest, greatest and lightest, but he the chooses a manual. If people wants a manual buy an old Ferrari from the 60’s. I simply do not see this box fit in.

    I will be looking forward to see the car live. I just realized that I have never seen an F1 live.


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Whoopsy:
    Grant:
    Whoopsy:
    Will also be interesting to see how Gordon intend to tame the engine's lower rpm behaviour, Aston paired theirs with a hybrid to help out and Gordon went without.

    Is it really that challenging with 4L and 1,000 kg to move?  I would think it should pull pretty well down low with variable valve timing and modern ECU.  I know it's tricky trying to adapt a tiny modern F1 engine for the road, but this seems less challenging.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    See no farther than the AMG car.

    As for the T-50, I wish buyers luck that it will come to fruition.

     

    Let’s compare the torque of T50 to my GT3 and your 911R.  Same torque in Porsche as T50, but Porsche weighs ~50% more (my car weighs 1500kg full of fuel) and T50 has much lower gearing (multiplying engine torque), made possible by redline which is 35% higher.

    So ratio of torque at the wheel to weight of the car is vastly in favor of T50...

    And of course when the V12 gets into its power range, comparison over Smiley


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Not thrilled of the looks but who cares, this all about form follow function, and this car is... E P I C!


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    tso:
    Rossi:

    What a brilliant car. angelangelangel

    It may look a bit bland at the front at first sight, but after watching Harry‘s video (absolutely loved it as always), it all goes together so well. Would love to buy one, it‘s the ultimate sports car to me. kiss

    +1 but two things I don’t understand. The rear design really does not fit, though I am aware it has a function. Could he not have deviated a bit from that old design ? 

    The other thing I simply cannot understand is the manual gearbox. He is so committed to use the latest, greatest and lightest, but he the chooses a manual. If people wants a manual buy an old Ferrari from the 60’s. I simply do not see this box fit in.

    I will be looking forward to see the car live. I just realized that I have never seen an F1 live.

    The T.50 “was never going to be a dual-clutch gearbox car” admits Murray. From the outset he’d had his mind made up that the car would feature a push-and-pull sequential manual box from Xtrac. “My everyday car is an Alpine A110, and it’s a beautiful little car, but it has a DCT gearbox, there’s no manual variant. I just leave it in automatic because a gearshift is such a non-event. It doesn’t involve you in any way, shape, or form. It’s like flipping an electric switch.”

    So how did the car switch from sequential to H-pattern gearbox? When the car was announced in 2018 some of the potential customers for the car contacted Mr. Murray with a request that the car have a three-pedal setup. “More and more, these people with a big supercar collection and a classic car collection, they were turning to their old 911 Porsches at the weekend to have a bit of fun. The supercars were getting wider and bigger, difficult to see out of, and they all had these switch gearchanges, and they just weren’t engaging enough,” recounts Murray. “Would you please consider an H-pattern? and boy oh boy was that music to my ears!”


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Gordon Murray - T.50

    Looking at the Harry's Garage video today with all the details. I really wonder how Gordan Murray is going to pull this off with 100 cars at app 3 mlj Euro. Is this really gone pay for the development and production of this car? I really hope so looks an interesting car for me.


     
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