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    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Personally, a roll cage does not make sense with regular seat belts and without helmet.

    As noone1 already pointed, even belted, in accident you are being thrown all over and the cage is only helping to bounce your head against.

    5 point belts, HANS device and then cage makes all the sense in the World, otherwise it only makes you "look like a Pro" in the eyes of  C&C attendees.


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    A roll cage is inappropriate for a road car. They should be limited to track cars. If they want people to be safe at track events then force a roll cage and dedicated track cars...


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    I don't know why they just don't offer a bolt in cage that is delivered beside the car, not in it. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    noone1:

    Um, I don't know a single American who drives without a seat belt.

    Your view is short sighted. If it's thought that they don't wear a seat belt and that they might hit their head on the roll cage, then it means they would be more likely to lose control of the car during an accident. It's not like an accident completely stops your car dead in its tracks. You can still use brakes, steer, beep the horn, etc.

    This could prove to be very bad. Imagine you hit a curb, you bounce in your seat hard, hit the roll bar with your head, are dazed and then the car continues to move straight and hits a person on the sidewalk. Had you not have hit your head, you maybe would have been capable of steering/braking/beeping the horn. Heck, maybe you can get out of your car and help someone else still.

    This is why mandatory seat belt laws make sense. You aren't just trying to save the occupants. You don't want incapacitated people behind the wheel of any car at any time. It's bad for everyone.

     

    You can't quite hit the bar behind the seat even if you bounce around, the bucket seat back gets in the way. Front sections, perhaps, but that part is optional anyway in the rest of the world market. And with a 3 point belt, while not as secure as a 6 point, the occupant can't be easily dislodged from the seat itself even in an accident. And if and accident is violent enough to dislodge an occupant even when belted in with a 3 point belt, hitting the bar is the last of the worries. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Mithras:

    I don't know why they just don't offer a bolt in cage that is delivered beside the car, not in it. 

     

    Exactly why Porsche Canada should lobby hard to allow roll bars for Canadian market, even if it's delivered separately, and forget about the American laws. We are not part of the USA after all.

     


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    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Um, I don't know a single American who drives without a seat belt.

    Your view is short sighted. If it's thought that they don't wear a seat belt and that they might hit their head on the roll cage, then it means they would be more likely to lose control of the car during an accident. It's not like an accident completely stops your car dead in its tracks. You can still use brakes, steer, beep the horn, etc.

    This could prove to be very bad. Imagine you hit a curb, you bounce in your seat hard, hit the roll bar with your head, are dazed and then the car continues to move straight and hits a person on the sidewalk. Had you not have hit your head, you maybe would have been capable of steering/braking/beeping the horn. Heck, maybe you can get out of your car and help someone else still.

    This is why mandatory seat belt laws make sense. You aren't just trying to save the occupants. You don't want incapacitated people behind the wheel of any car at any time. It's bad for everyone.

     

    You can't quite hit the bar behind the seat even if you bounce around, the bucket seat back gets in the way. Front sections, perhaps, but that part is optional anyway in the rest of the world market. And with a 3 point belt, while not as secure as a 6 point, the occupant can't be easily dislodged from the seat itself even in an accident. And if and accident is violent enough to dislodge an occupant even when belted in with a 3 point belt, hitting the bar is the last of the worries. 

     

    + 1 

    The roll cage is only at the back , not at the front . You can not hit if you wear a seat belt . The US law makes no sense at all .  Just a silly bureaucratic decision .

    Following that logic, then the law should also ban anything from being transported in the back seats except for people with seat belts  ( imagine that fridge , or that big screen TV, hitting you on the head Smiley )


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    M4 GTS has a factory roll cage in the US...


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    noone1:

    M4 GTS has a factory roll cage in the US...

     

    Been mentioned quite a few times now.

    BMW zip tied a couple foam pads onto the bar which can easily be removed in 2 seconds to skirt the law.

    Porsche refused to do it.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Didn't know it had a partial cage only, always thought the Euro GT2 RS came with a full set up .


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    absent:

    Didn't know it had a partial cage only, always thought the Euro GT2 RS came with a full set up .

    No GT comes with a full cage . Only partial cage is standard  . In some country, like Switzerland for example, the front cage is not really road legal , a bit in a grey zone . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    M4 GTS has a factory roll cage in the US...

     

    Been mentioned quite a few times now.

    BMW zip tied a couple foam pads onto the bar which can easily be removed in 2 seconds to skirt the law.

    Porsche refused to do it.

     

    Sounds like Porsche just doesn't care then, otherwise they'd do it too. What's the problem with padding a roll cage? It doesn't effect the roll cage at all.


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    noone1:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    M4 GTS has a factory roll cage in the US...

     

    Been mentioned quite a few times now.

    BMW zip tied a couple foam pads onto the bar which can easily be removed in 2 seconds to skirt the law.

    Porsche refused to do it.

     

    Sounds like Porsche just doesn't care then, otherwise they'd do it too. What's the problem with padding a roll cage? It doesn't effect the roll cage at all.

     

    It's called skirting the law. Porsche doesn't do half ass attempts. They cared about the laws that's why they don't do it like BMW did.

    VAG did that with Diesel Gate remember?Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Um, I don't know a single American who drives without a seat belt.

    Your view is short sighted. If it's thought that they don't wear a seat belt and that they might hit their head on the roll cage, then it means they would be more likely to lose control of the car during an accident. It's not like an accident completely stops your car dead in its tracks. You can still use brakes, steer, beep the horn, etc.

    This could prove to be very bad. Imagine you hit a curb, you bounce in your seat hard, hit the roll bar with your head, are dazed and then the car continues to move straight and hits a person on the sidewalk. Had you not have hit your head, you maybe would have been capable of steering/braking/beeping the horn. Heck, maybe you can get out of your car and help someone else still.

    This is why mandatory seat belt laws make sense. You aren't just trying to save the occupants. You don't want incapacitated people behind the wheel of any car at any time. It's bad for everyone.

     

    You can't quite hit the bar behind the seat even if you bounce around, the bucket seat back gets in the way. Front sections, perhaps, but that part is optional anyway in the rest of the world market. And with a 3 point belt, while not as secure as a 6 point, the occupant can't be easily dislodged from the seat itself even in an accident. And if and accident is violent enough to dislodge an occupant even when belted in with a 3 point belt, hitting the bar is the last of the worries. 

    + 1 

    The roll cage is only at the back , not at the front . You can not hit if you wear a seat belt . The US law makes no sense at all .  Just a silly bureaucratic decision .

     

    Yep, absolutely agree. 

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Ferdie:
    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Um, I don't know a single American who drives without a seat belt.

    Your view is short sighted. If it's thought that they don't wear a seat belt and that they might hit their head on the roll cage, then it means they would be more likely to lose control of the car during an accident. It's not like an accident completely stops your car dead in its tracks. You can still use brakes, steer, beep the horn, etc.

    This could prove to be very bad. Imagine you hit a curb, you bounce in your seat hard, hit the roll bar with your head, are dazed and then the car continues to move straight and hits a person on the sidewalk. Had you not have hit your head, you maybe would have been capable of steering/braking/beeping the horn. Heck, maybe you can get out of your car and help someone else still.

    This is why mandatory seat belt laws make sense. You aren't just trying to save the occupants. You don't want incapacitated people behind the wheel of any car at any time. It's bad for everyone.

     

    You can't quite hit the bar behind the seat even if you bounce around, the bucket seat back gets in the way. Front sections, perhaps, but that part is optional anyway in the rest of the world market. And with a 3 point belt, while not as secure as a 6 point, the occupant can't be easily dislodged from the seat itself even in an accident. And if and accident is violent enough to dislodge an occupant even when belted in with a 3 point belt, hitting the bar is the last of the worries. 

    + 1 

    The roll cage is only at the back , not at the front . You can not hit if you wear a seat belt . The US law makes no sense at all .  Just a silly bureaucratic decision .

     

    Yep, absolutely agree. 

     

     

    It's all about the 'not my fault' mentality of the Americans.

    If I don't wear a seatbelt in a car, I get into an accident and get thrown backwards and hit the unpadded cage behind the seats, it's not my fault that I don't wear a seatbelt, but it is the fault of Porsche for not padding the cage. Smiley

    The annoying navigation warning is another. why is it that the American lawyers thinks it's the car makers' fault for putting a operational navigation system in a car if someone decided to concentrate on operating the navigation system instead of driving? Smiley

    It is always someone else's fault, it is never theirs. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Whoopsy:
    Ferdie:
    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Um, I don't know a single American who drives without a seat belt.

    Your view is short sighted. If it's thought that they don't wear a seat belt and that they might hit their head on the roll cage, then it means they would be more likely to lose control of the car during an accident. It's not like an accident completely stops your car dead in its tracks. You can still use brakes, steer, beep the horn, etc.

    This could prove to be very bad. Imagine you hit a curb, you bounce in your seat hard, hit the roll bar with your head, are dazed and then the car continues to move straight and hits a person on the sidewalk. Had you not have hit your head, you maybe would have been capable of steering/braking/beeping the horn. Heck, maybe you can get out of your car and help someone else still.

    This is why mandatory seat belt laws make sense. You aren't just trying to save the occupants. You don't want incapacitated people behind the wheel of any car at any time. It's bad for everyone.

     

    You can't quite hit the bar behind the seat even if you bounce around, the bucket seat back gets in the way. Front sections, perhaps, but that part is optional anyway in the rest of the world market. And with a 3 point belt, while not as secure as a 6 point, the occupant can't be easily dislodged from the seat itself even in an accident. And if and accident is violent enough to dislodge an occupant even when belted in with a 3 point belt, hitting the bar is the last of the worries. 

    + 1 

    The roll cage is only at the back , not at the front . You can not hit if you wear a seat belt . The US law makes no sense at all .  Just a silly bureaucratic decision .

     

    Yep, absolutely agree. 

     

     

    It's all about the 'not my fault' mentality of the Americans.

    If I don't wear a seatbelt in a car, I get into an accident and get thrown backwards and hit the unpadded cage behind the seats, it's not my fault that I don't wear a seatbelt, but it is the fault of Porsche for not padding the cage. Smiley

    The annoying navigation warning is another. why is it that the American lawyers thinks it's the car makers' fault for putting a operational navigation system in a car if someone decided to concentrate on operating the navigation system instead of driving? Smiley

    It is always someone else's fault, it is never theirs. 

    Again, it's short sighted. What if you're parked without your seat belt on, a car hits you, and you smash your head on a roll cage?


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    noone1:
    Whoopsy:
    Ferdie:
    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Um, I don't know a single American who drives without a seat belt.

    Your view is short sighted. If it's thought that they don't wear a seat belt and that they might hit their head on the roll cage, then it means they would be more likely to lose control of the car during an accident. It's not like an accident completely stops your car dead in its tracks. You can still use brakes, steer, beep the horn, etc.

    This could prove to be very bad. Imagine you hit a curb, you bounce in your seat hard, hit the roll bar with your head, are dazed and then the car continues to move straight and hits a person on the sidewalk. Had you not have hit your head, you maybe would have been capable of steering/braking/beeping the horn. Heck, maybe you can get out of your car and help someone else still.

    This is why mandatory seat belt laws make sense. You aren't just trying to save the occupants. You don't want incapacitated people behind the wheel of any car at any time. It's bad for everyone.

     

    You can't quite hit the bar behind the seat even if you bounce around, the bucket seat back gets in the way. Front sections, perhaps, but that part is optional anyway in the rest of the world market. And with a 3 point belt, while not as secure as a 6 point, the occupant can't be easily dislodged from the seat itself even in an accident. And if and accident is violent enough to dislodge an occupant even when belted in with a 3 point belt, hitting the bar is the last of the worries. 

    + 1 

    The roll cage is only at the back , not at the front . You can not hit if you wear a seat belt . The US law makes no sense at all .  Just a silly bureaucratic decision .

     

    Yep, absolutely agree. 

     

     

    It's all about the 'not my fault' mentality of the Americans.

    If I don't wear a seatbelt in a car, I get into an accident and get thrown backwards and hit the unpadded cage behind the seats, it's not my fault that I don't wear a seatbelt, but it is the fault of Porsche for not padding the cage. Smiley

    The annoying navigation warning is another. why is it that the American lawyers thinks it's the car makers' fault for putting a operational navigation system in a car if someone decided to concentrate on operating the navigation system instead of driving? Smiley

    It is always someone else's fault, it is never theirs. 

    Again, it's short sighted. What if you're parked without your seat belt on, a car hits you, and you smash your head on a roll cage?

     

    Why would you seat in a car without a seat belt on in the first place? SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    First thing one do is put on the seat belt whenever one goes into a car. It's like lifting the toilet cover before peeing. Or do you pee with the toilet cover on?

    And in your scenario, it 's is close to physically impossible to hit your head on the roll cage situated behind the seat back. IF someone hit you from behind, the seat back will prevent you from flying backwards; if the hit is from the front, you will hit the windscreen, or the steering wheel; from the side, you will either hit the door panel or the edge of the other seat, which is also very unlikely cause of the curve of the seat back that cradle the person. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Spec YOUR dream GT 2 RS

    Um, I sit in the car all the time without a seatbelt. Why would I put it on if I'm parked?

    Well, as far as a roll cage in a 911, that's true, because it's not a full cage. Porsche just doesn't want to wrap it for some reason. Hell, they could pad it and cover it in leather or something if they really cared.

    I'd say they don't do it because they think it's not worth the time.


     
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