Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S... - Page1

Jan 11, 2010 11:26:19 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

German car magazine Autobild Sportscars compared the Audi Q7 V12, the BMW X5 M, the Mercedes ML 63 AMG, the Cayenne Turbo S and the Range Rover V8 Supercharged.

Here are the results:

Audi BMW Mercedes Porsche Range Rover

0- 50 kph 1,9 s 1,7 s 2,1 s 1,8 s 2,0 s

0-100 kph 5,4 s 4,5 s 5,2 s 4,7 s 5,4 s

0-160 kph 12,8 s 10,3 s 11,8 s 10,6 s 12,2 s

0-200 kph 20,5 s 16,4 s 18,8 s 17,0 s 19,9 s

Quartermile 13,6 s 12,82 s 13,43 s 12,97 s 13,72 s

High Speed

Braking 200 kph to 0 kph

Best: BMW and Mercedes with aprox. 153 m

Good: Porsche with 158 m (PCCB)

Bad: Range Rover with 176 meter

Track test (asphalt VERY cold at 4°C, length 3.67 km)

Winner: Cayenne Turbo S 1:44,46

Second: BMW X5 M 1:46,92

Last: Audi Q7 1:51,23

For comparison: BMW M5 1:43,77 (warmer conditions !)

Conclusion

First place: Cayenne Turbo S

Second place: BMW X5 M

Last place: Audi Q7 V12

Verdict

Cayenne Turbo S still the best handling SUV out there

BMW X5 M automatic tranny as fast as DKG (DCT), impressive

Audi Q7 V12 feels a bit powerless in the low rev range

Mercedes ML 63 AMG needs higher rev figures to be fast

Range Rover Sport Supercharged steering is horrible

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 3:50:27 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 15813, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Times for ML63 seems a little bit odd, something like 10% higher than normal.

But wow, the Audi V12 is quite some engine.

edit: went back and check the numbers from the other thread, 0-100km 4.5, 0-160km 10.9 0-200km 15.9, quartermile 13.1

these times are from an American car magazine Automobile who is known to baby their test cars, so it's not the fastest tested times either.

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 3:59:32 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

ML63 AMG times look good to me, I compared them with other german tests and they almost match.

I'm still surprised to see how well the Cayenne Turbo S seems to perform (handling). Very impressive.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 5:56:45 PM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

handling department impressed me most of all

who it could be that cay turbo s is that faster than x5m?

in the ring x5m (8-30) is clearly faster than cay turbo s (8-45)

acc.times are expected ones

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 7:18:07 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: artur777

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

I think the Norschleife track time of the Cayenne Turbo S has been achieved with the "old" pre-facelift Turbo S.

The tires are also very important on such heavy cars and Michelin has a fantastic experience with high performance SUVs. X5 M is using Bridgestones as far as I remember.

Btw: you would be even more impressed if I'd tell you that the X5 M outruns the BMW 750 and Mercedes S500 on a tight track. Now just imagine how better the Cayenne Turbo S is.

Speaking of those who prefer sedans vs. SUVs because SUVs have bad handling.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 8:17:30 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12669, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

RC:
Btw: you would be even more impressed if I'd tell you that the X5 M outruns the BMW 750 and Mercedes S500 on a tight track. Now just imagine how better the Cayenne Turbo S is.

Speaking of those who prefer sedans vs. SUVs because SUVs have bad handling.

Let me see if I get this right:

The X5M has 555 hp, 680 Nm and a weight of 2380kg. That leads to a power to weight ratio of 4,29 kg/hp.

For the 750i (407 hp, 600 Nm, 2020kg RWD, 2105kg AWD) the corresponding number would be 4,96 kg/hp (RWD) and 5,17 kg/hp (AWD).
The S500 (387 hp, 530 Nm, 1955kg RWD, 2030kg AWD) only gets 5,05 kg/hp (RWD) and 5,25 kg/hp (AWD).

So anything else than a win of the X5M would be a very big surprise, no? To be fair, you should compare the X5M against cars like the S63 AMG/E63 AMG or a M5. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 8:27:32 PM

REALZEUS: Expert; Loc: UK and Greece , United Kingdom; Posts: 1611, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2008; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Well, they do have bad handling (and performance) compared to sports saloons. A Cayenne Turbo S gets slaughtered by a Panamera Turbo and the same stands for the X5M compared with an M5.

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

Next
Threads

Jan 11, 2010 10:57:54 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Rossi:

So anything else than a win of the X5M would be a very big surprise, no? To be fair, you should compare the X5M against cars like the S63 AMG/E63 AMG or a M5.

OK, you want it, you get it.

Let me see: the X5/X6 does the Nordschleife in 8:24.

The M5 needs 8:13.

On a track longer than 20 km, the M5 is only 11 seconds faster. Count til 11 and you'll understand what this means. This means that I very likely outrun ANY non-professional driver in a M5 in my X5 M on the Nordschleife. Smiley

Now let's take Hockenheim Kleiner Ring: the X5/X6 M needs 1:17,1. This is a very tight track where power doesn't really help.

The Audi S5, the BMW 335i, the BMW Z4 3.0si, the Mercedes SL55 AMG, the Aston Martin DB9, the BMW Z8 Roadster are all slower.

The 996 Carrera achieves the same time, we're talking a 911 here, even if it is a couple of years old. So does the lightweight Opel Speedster Turbo and the SLK 55 AMG.

The M5 is only 0.6 seconds faster !

Impressed ? No ? I am. Smiley

Again: I'm talking family car here...I wouldn't actually use the X5 M on the track, this would be ridiculous. What I want to tell you is that in the right hands, the X5 M will very likely outrun almost everything on public streets, especially on the Autobahn. If not...I still have my 997 Turbo and this one definetely kicks ass, more than you can even imagine. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 1:06:24 AM

artur777: Senior; Loc: Europe , Russia; Posts: 774, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2008; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

8-24 for X6m!

cay turbo s couldn't be quicker or am I wrong

RC, pls look at it - what do you think rgrd track times?

Lap Times

Track	X6 M	Cayenne Turbo S (MkII)
Hockenheim Short	1:17.1	1:16.7
Autozeitung test track	1:43.7	1:42.8

Specs

Discipline	X6 M	Cayenne Turbo S (MkII)
Max speed	155 m/h (250 km/h)	173.6 m/h (280 km/h)
0-100 km/h acceleration	4.5	4.8
0-160 km/h acceleration	10.3	10.1
0-200 km/h acceleration	16.3	17.2
0-300 km/h acceleration	-	-
Quarter mile time	12.8 @ 110mph	12.6 @ 112
Power/weight ratio	0.17	0.17

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 7:41:40 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: artur777

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Personally, I think that it needs a VERY good professional driver to achieve better times in a car or another. It also depends on which car suits the testdriver best, some testdrivers have their preferences, maybe even without realizing it.

Straight line performance seems to be better with the X5 M but in real life, I guess both, the X5 M and Cayenne Turbo S, have a similar performance, including the race track.

I don't have any Cayenne Turbo S track time for the Nordschleife but my guess is that it is going to be very similar to the X6 M time. The X6 M has a huge advantage on longer tracks, like Autobild Sportscars already pointed out: the 6-speed automatic shifts BRUTALLY, its speed is very similar to DCT, even BMW claims the same.

I'm curious about the next generation Cayenne Turbo, it will be interesting.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 12:33:06 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12669, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

RC:

OK, you want it, you get it.

Let me see...

Again: don't compare apples to oranges. Comparing a 2010 X5M to a ten year old 911 or a Z4 3.0si with less than half the power is a bit ridiculous. I can understand your enthusiasm for your new car and with your driver skills you can probably outrun ANY car with ANY car you are driving, but apples to apples and oranges to oranges please. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 12:40:32 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Rossi:

and with your driver skills you can probably outrun ANY car with ANY car you are driving, but apples to apples and oranges to oranges please.

Thank you. Smiley

Still: try to view the X5 M as a regular SUV which surprises a lot of people. I would never use the X5 M on the track, so it doesn't make any sense to compare it to the M5 for example (which btw. I wouldn't use on the track either).

For me, the X5 M is just the perfect daily driver family car. It is affordable (compared to the Cayenne Turbo S or even the Panamera Turbo), it is fast, has lots of luggage rooom, kids and wife feel safe, good winter car, etc. etc. etc.

I never tried to compare the X5 M with a sportscar, others did. Smiley I just say the X5 M is an incredible product for a SUV, nothing more and nothing less.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 2:15:40 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12669, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

RC:

I just say the X5 M is an incredible product for a SUV, nothing more and nothing less.

That's a thing we can agree upon easily! Smiley

And BTW, my statement about your driver skills was absolutely straightforward, I have the highest respect for such abilities. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 2:30:34 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Bei Dir ist zur Zeit wohl auch wenig los, was?!

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 3:34:18 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12669, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

RC:

Bei Dir ist zur Zeit wohl auch wenig los, was?!

Ach Du, paßt scho. Aber es könnte prinzipiell immer mehr sein. Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Next
Threads

Jan 12, 2010 9:41:41 PM

Conny997: Expert; Loc: Munich , Germany; Posts: 1682, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2006; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

..ups, ich bin im deutschen Forum gelandet.... Smiley
auch nicht schlecht.

A major point wasn’t even discussed here:
Lt. „Sport Auto“ outruns the X6M EVERYTHING else on the Nordschleife in the wet. Smiley Smiley Again, it's just about to derive the incredible „daily use“ suitability, at 180 days of rain, at least in Germany, for me most important... Smiley

--

Kind regards, Conny
More pics: http://www.dayboox.com/group/Connys%20Galerie
Porsche 997 Turbo * Porsche Cayenne GTS * BMW X5M

Next
Threads

Jan 15, 2010 8:08:07 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 15813, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Conny997

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

More rosy comparison data for the X5M or Cayenne Turbo S depending on your point of view.

From Car and Driver :

0-60mph 0-100mph 0-130mph 1/4mile 5-60mph

X5M 4.0 10 18.1 12.5@112 4.9

cayenne Turbo S 4.1 10.1 17.8 12.6@112 5.0

Top gear accelerations 30-50 50-70

X5M 2.5 3.3

Cayenne Turbo S 2.6 3.0

More interesting tidbits, both 6-speed gearboxes have almost exactly the same ratios, but the BMW one is shorter by just over 10%. Cayenne also a couple mpg better than the X5M in highway consumption 19 to 17, they matched in city at 12.

Either the Cayenne Turbo S holding up pretty well or the BMW is a fantastic bargain for almost half the price.

full article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q4/x5_m_vs._grand_cherokee_srt8_range_rover_sport_supercharged_cayenne_turbo_s...

I left out the Jeep as it's not in the same crosshair for shoppers and the the Range Rover Sport as that thing is too slow to be in the same league.

Next
Threads

Jan 15, 2010 8:17:16 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59340, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

I never said the Cayenne Turbo S is a slow car, never. It is actually one of the best performance SUVs in the world, if not THE best together with the X5/X6M.

Yes, the X5/X6 M is a real bargain compared to the Cayenne Turbo S. Especially since german dealers are throwing around with rebates of up to 25% for new cars.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	9/23/23 3:41 PM watt	262870	1644
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	9/21/23 4:19 PM watt	233389	523
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	163555	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	9/22/23 7:36 AM RC	84469	225
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	9/15/23 2:07 PM RC	719139	1344
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	521733	3868
Porsche	OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)	12/25/22 1:02 AM CGX car nut	519433	2663
Porsche	OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)	4/6/23 7:43 AM crayphile	350653	1276
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	1/21/23 3:51 PM CGX car nut	264913	1491
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	256660	797
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	9/14/23 3:22 AM CGX car nut	230969	2331
Lambo	Aventador and SV	3/30/23 1:59 PM CGX car nut	222532	724
Porsche	GT4RS	9/12/23 3:26 PM tso	220476	1319
Porsche	Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review	10/6/22 12:37 AM Whoopsy	206961	580
Ferrari	Ferrari 812 Superfast	4/21/23 8:09 AM the-missile	178435	550
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	8/1/23 6:38 AM Super Darius	168948	600
Others	Corvette C8	9/12/23 7:35 PM Enmanuel	158440	484
Motor Sp.	[2022] Formula 1	2/4/23 1:10 AM Whoopsy	152345	1576
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	125499	346
AMG	Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis)	10/24/22 7:42 AM RC	124346	402
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	5/6/23 7:40 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	49523	378
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	40469	219
AMG	Bought a muscle car...	3/26/23 3:31 PM Whoopsy	31859	303
Porsche USA	992 GTS	12/5/22 9:56 AM boubou	31807	156
Porsche	Top Gear presented by Chris Harris...	11/1/22 12:55 PM Whoopsy	30169	136
Porsche	992 Sport Classic	2/13/23 5:35 PM RC	25505	213
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	23972	101
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	23407	144
Ferrari	[2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV)	4/15/23 5:20 AM watt	22026	141
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	8/15/23 11:11 PM 964C2	16659	179

Crown

Forum - Thread

Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Lap Times

Specs

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Re: Comparison Audi Q7 V12, BMW X5 M, Mercedes ML63 AMG, Cayenne Turbo S...

Forum

Boards