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    PDK Release Confirmed

    Latest issue of Auto Motor und Sport confirms intro of PDK for all models simultanious with intro of 997 facelift in spring of 2008. I guess around march. No word if it will be available for the Cayenne. I assume it won't be vailable for the cayenne until the Cayenne II is presented.

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Any idea how much the PDK option will cost? Are we talking $2k? $5k? $10k?

    David

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    The tip for the 997tt is about $4K, so expect the PDK to be much more. Maybe upwards of $7K.

    Mike

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    is it reliable???

    gt3 and turbo really also getting pdk??? what about their facelift

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    I would bet a pretty penny that every lineup gets PDK except GT3 and GT2.
    Why you ask? I don't think the initial slavo of e-diff/PASM technologies will be suitable for the more track oriented P cars.

    People don't realize that an seq/semi-auto transmission means a loss of a mechanical-based differential (the two don't work together). Just my perdiction in writing

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    I would bet a pretty penny that every lineup gets PDK except GT3 and GT2.
    Why you ask? I don't think the initial slavo of e-diff/PASM technologies will be suitable for the more track oriented P cars.

    People don't realize that an seq/semi-auto transmission means a loss of a mechanical-based differential (the two don't work together). Just my perdiction in writing



    What diff did Enzo/360CS have? Are no e-diff systems as compatible w/track cars as mech diffs...even w/latest hardware/software advances?

    P may struggle more w/creating a PDK compatible w/tq of 997TT/GT2....PDK 1.0 may be as suboptimal as F1 1.0/PCCB 1.0 were....and, given the endless delays (only 10+ yrs post-F1 1.0 ), expectations will be high for a decent PDK 1.0 version...

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Re VK:

    I think the first instance of Ferrari F1 was in the 355 F1/Challenge. As for the LSD in the 360, I think it uses some sort of remedial e-diff. Perhaps some insight from owners would be nice? I have a good friend who has one, but knows nothing about cars...
    I always thought it was electronically adjusted .
    With that being said, Ferrari honed down their F1 from its clunky release in the 355 to what it is now (a respectable, class-leading F1).
    What people take for granted is that it took them 10+ years as they gradually integrated the technology. Porsche, if it all of a sudden implements it, will have a hard time achieving the QC necessary for its top performers (imo, just as PCCBA 1.0 is an example).

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    One other question- how much extra weight do you think the PDK will add over a 6 speed manual?

    David

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    People don't realize that an seq/semi-auto transmission means a loss of a mechanical-based differential (the two don't work together). Just my perdiction in writing



    The ferrari 360 challenge stradale with F1 transmission comes equipped with a mechanical limited slip differential. Porsche gt3 cup cars with sequential transmission also came equipped with a mechanical limited slip differential. Only Porsche's "advanced networked" PSM and tiptronic systems don't work well with mechanical limited slip differentials, but yet they are racing these mechanical diffs in their cup cars. I wonder why???

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    I would bet a pretty penny that every lineup gets PDK except GT3 and GT2.
    Why you ask? I don't think the initial slavo of e-diff/PASM technologies will be suitable for the more track oriented P cars.

    People don't realize that an seq/semi-auto transmission means a loss of a mechanical-based differential (the two don't work together). Just my perdiction in writing



    What diff did Enzo/360CS have? Are no e-diff systems as compatible w/track cars as mech diffs...even w/latest hardware/software advances?

    P may struggle more w/creating a PDK compatible w/tq of 997TT/GT2....PDK 1.0 may be as suboptimal as F1 1.0/PCCB 1.0 were....and, given the endless delays (only 10+ yrs post-F1 1.0 ), expectations will be high for a decent PDK 1.0 version...



    10 years? How old are you? Porsche had PDK back in the 80's. They still race with them and we all know racing improves the breed. What's the warranty on a Ferrari F1 and what is Porsche's standard warranty? Seems like the German is a bit more confident in its engineering than our Italian friends which is even sillier when you consider that F cars are driven at least less than 1/2 the mileage of P cars on an average basis. Nick's been eerily absent. You're not filling in for him this week are you?

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    in which series Porsche is racing using PDK?

    AM

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    What is PDK?

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Double clutch gearbox also known as DSG in Audi and VW cars. In principle two small gearboxes one for even and one for odd gears. Inbetween is the double clutch. This allows that you are as example in one gearbox in the second gear and the other one in the third gear. For changing the gear, only the clutch has to release the first gearbox and immediately connects to the other one. This happens in few milliseconds, without power interruption.

    Problems with PDK/DSG:
    - the start procedure, smooth or sporty
    - changing more two or four gears an once

    better than Tiptronic:
    - faster changing of gears
    - no power interruption
    - no loss of power
    not better:
    - Tiptronic starts smoother

    better then SMG or F1
    - faster changing of gears
    - no power interruption
    not better:
    - changing of two gears

    In principle is PDK the logical move after Tiptronic. SMG is the logical move after manual.

    AM

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    better then SMG or F1
    - faster changing of gears
    - no power interruption
    not better:
    - changing of two gears

    In principle is PDK the logical move after Tiptronic. SMG is the logical move after manual.

    AM



    Absolutely agree with your conclusion, but are you sure about the changing times of gears? For example Bugatti says at their website that their DSG (which should the class leading DSG currently available) does the gear change in a maximum of 0.2 sec.
    Now we all know, that F1 of Ferrari in its fastest position changes gears within 150 msec or even 100 msec (F430/Enzo and F599 GTB Fiorano respectively). If I remember correctly, the FXX even does it in 80 msec.

    So what is the truth now?

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed


    From an article in Automotive News Europe, it seems PDK will be offered for MY 2008 and ZF Friedrichshafen will be the supplier.

    For VW and Audi, the supplier is BorgWarner.

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    better then SMG or F1
    - faster changing of gears
    - no power interruption
    not better:
    - changing of two gears

    In principle is PDK the logical move after Tiptronic. SMG is the logical move after manual.

    AM



    Absolutely agree with your conclusion, but are you sure about the changing times of gears? For example Bugatti says at their website that their DSG (which should the class leading DSG currently available) does the gear change in a maximum of 0.2 sec.
    Now we all know, that F1 of Ferrari in its fastest position changes gears within 150 msec or even 100 msec (F430/Enzo and F599 GTB Fiorano respectively). If I remember correctly, the FXX even does it in 80 msec.

    So what is the truth now?



    The fastest is the SMG form M5/6 with 65 ms minimum shifting time. If DSG from Bugatti is 200 ms, then I don't know .

    65 ms shifting in S6 P500 sport is not smooth.

    AM

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    better then SMG or F1
    - faster changing of gears
    - no power interruption
    not better:
    - changing of two gears

    In principle is PDK the logical move after Tiptronic. SMG is the logical move after manual.

    AM



    Absolutely agree with your conclusion, but are you sure about the changing times of gears? For example Bugatti says at their website that their DSG (which should the class leading DSG currently available) does the gear change in a maximum of 0.2 sec.
    Now we all know, that F1 of Ferrari in its fastest position changes gears within 150 msec or even 100 msec (F430/Enzo and F599 GTB Fiorano respectively). If I remember correctly, the FXX even does it in 80 msec.

    So what is the truth now?



    The fastest is the SMG form M5/6 with 65 ms minimum shifting time. If DSG from Bugatti is 200 ms, then I don't know .

    65 ms shifting in S6 P500 sport is not smooth.

    AM



    The 200ms time is stated at the Bugatti Website, so I would assume it's true. The 65ms time of BMW is AFAIK for the gear change only, so it doesn't include separating and engaging of the clutch, what makes the F1 system of Ferrari faster, as their numbers are for the whole sequence of the gear change.

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    are you sure about BMW? They (BMW) say in the fastest mode (1 of 271 possible ) they change in 65 ms. But who knows or who cares.

    AM

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    I just searched in google. 65 ms for the complete process and 22 ms for just gear changing. I am not sure if this information is correct. But remeber the SMG III has spread the gears on a very special way to have this fast shifting and they use the fastest micro processor.

    AM

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    VW DSG (Gold GTI) Claims 8ms

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Could the Veyron be this "slow" simply because of the reinforcements that the transmission has received? After all, it needs to handle over two times as much torque as an M5.

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Very confusing all these numbers...

    Re: PDK Release Confirmed

    Claimed shift speeds don't mean much w/o context of car's tq/turbo lag/which speed ranges/traction/smoothness of shifts/clutch life, etc....all the usual engineering trade-offs...and then placing that engineering product in hands of typical amateur driver who uses this car on real-world roads w/suboptimal pavement, weather and traffic conds (F spent a lot of time, for ex., driving cars on SF's steep hills in rush-hr traffic to refine F-1, esp over past 5 yrs, as few settings in world w/a major concentration of F buyers who commute through steep hills in traffic)....

     
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