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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Well, I myself am looking out for a manual 993 to complement my 997 pdk. I miss the manual action but would never trade my pdk for it. For the job (DD) it is unbeatable. So to end all discussion: get both. kiss


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    FWIW - RC has been infected by the Twin Turbo bug a long time ago.  Once you go Turbo you never go back - I know, I was recently infected!  He even bought a Sedan with Twin Turbos and wishes the GTS had them!  I would bet the farm RC will get the 991 Turbo and not the GT3 991.  End of story.  He knows it!  Keep this post - It will happend!

    Yes, the powerful twin turbo engine always fascinated me and while the Panamera Turbo S has a twin turbo charged V8, the steering drives me crazy (too comfortable when driving straight, like driving on a cloud, I know this sounds weird but this is how it is).

    I always loved my 997 Turbo (and my previous 996 Turbo) but it was a garage queen because I had small kids and the weekends were reserved for family fun. Now that my son is almost 10 years old and he LOVES cars, things have changed. We sometimes just go out for a drive together while my wife goes swimming (or shopping Smiley) with my daughter. I don't say I will use the 911 Turbo S more often than I use the Panamera Turbo S now but it will be much more fun.

    The 911 Turbo is me, it is difficult to explain but I always get back to one. I would love to have a GT3 too, never had one but always wanted one, especially after a fantastic GT3 driving event with Walter Röhrl but money dictates what we can do and what not, so I should be happy that I can at least afford a 911 Turbo S for now. 

    Yes, the 911 Turbo bug is a strong one. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC. Since joining Rennteam my overiding impression has been that you are a Turbo person. Nothing less will do. So get the 991 Turbo S & perhaps the increased expense will work to your advantage & make you keep the car for 4 - 5 years as you always plan to do


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gilmour:

    RC. Since joining Rennteam my overiding impression has been that you are a Turbo person. Nothing less will do. So get the 991 Turbo S & perhaps the increased expense will work to your advantage & make you keep the car for 4 - 5 years as you always plan to do

    Smiley This is exactly what I was thinking too. Surprisingly, my wife says the same, so why the heck didn't she say so when I ordered the Panamera Turbo S? Smiley Smiley Wives... Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    Smiley so why the heck didn't she say so when I ordered the Panamera Turbo S? Smiley Smiley Wives... Smiley Smiley

    Because there were NO 991 Turbo S at that moment Smiley She knows when to give you a green light Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:
    RC:

    Smiley so why the heck didn't she say so when I ordered the Panamera Turbo S? Smiley Smiley Wives... Smiley Smiley

    Because there were NO 991 Turbo S at that moment Smiley She knows when to give you a green light Smiley

    Good excuse Smiley but I wanted the Cayenne Turbo Powerkit instead of the Panamera Turbo S and I think it would have saved me a lot of money (I would have kept the Cayenne for sure, I would not have gone for the Cayenne GTS and now I would go for the 991 Turbo S).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I totally agree with your feeling on the Panamera. It is not what I expected. Too comfy, driving feeling disconnected. Even the Cayenne felt more fun somehow... Not what I expected at all. Plus you cannot replace the versatility of a SUV, and the higher driving position.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
     

    Yes, the powerful twin turbo engine always fascinated me and while the Panamera Turbo S has a twin turbo charged V8, the steering drives me crazy (too comfortable when driving straight, like driving on a cloud, I know this sounds weird but this is how it is).

    RC, drawing on your (rich) automobile experience try to come up with an explanation on the steering feel. I only drove Panamera twice (S and 4S) and never got that impression. I would have realized it coming from the 911.

    Could it be the Servolenkung Plus? I know it works at low speeds but maybe it affects something.

    Or, quite likely the air suspension on the Turbo? The cars I drove had the normal PASM dampers, like on the 911.

    Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC - If you had not bought the Panamera TTS you would always be wondering 'What if?' and most of us as well.  Now you know and thanks to all that we know too.  I always explain to my kids to learn from other peoples mistake, it is cheapest.  I'm willing to donate to your 991 Turbo S fund for teaching us all a valuable lesson and saving us money.  Where do I send the check?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    A TT is a TT. The latest is faster than the previous. Characteristics essentially the same. Branch out and live a little. Life is short and to live it in a Turbo rut is not the way to live. You have had the GT3 itch and why not scratch it? Your son will love it and you will be consumed with its phenomenal driving parameters.

    The GT3 is the ultimate toy for the car enthusiast who enjoys not only speed but an opportunity to test and challenge is driving abilities.Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    RC - If you had not bought the Panamera TTS you would always be wondering 'What if?' and most of us as well.  Now you know and thanks to all that we know too.  I always explain to my kids to learn from other peoples mistake, it is cheapest.  I'm willing to donate to your 991 Turbo S fund for teaching us all a valuable lesson and saving us money.  Where do I send the check?

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    The GT3 is the ultimate toy for the car enthusiast who enjoys not only speed but an opportunity to test and challenge is driving abilities.Smiley

    Having owned a GT3 - the issue is that you need to travel at extrodinary speeds to really enjoy it and get a kick. And then the limit is very "small". Not sure how you will really enjoy your car in the US if you can hardley ever get past 2nd gearSmiley it would drive me mad. And driving the car a low revs was very unsatisfying too me. So make sure you spend ample time on the track.

    As for TTs and RC, I think it would be the better compromise given its all year capabilities and the fact RC does not really do tracks. And it will be fast around track. But at the core RC is a Turbo guy and if you are a Turbo guy you will always prefer that characteristic over a natrually blown engine, no matter how high it revs Smiley


    --
    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I agree like with ALL high performance sport cars before you can enjoy them you need to be able to reach speed and have opportunity to maneuver the car.I intend to do just that with the GT3. I will find locales which provide me the space and road challenges to drive the car in a spirited fashion. I also will consider track use.

    RC, has owned TT for a long time. Even his sedan and Cayenne (?) are TT's. The Gt3 is a totally different car particularly the 991 because if Porsche is to be believed it will be more suitable for DD and yet a raw race car. Add the PDK-S element and you have a challenging but civil car.

    I do agree that weather is problem for where he lives. The TT is better suited. But the GT3 is the vehicle you use when the roads are dry and you need to expend pent up energy especially in the warm months. If he is going to stay with the TT keep the Panamera.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Nick

    So called overall "feel" difference between Pana TS and new 991 Turbo/Turbo S is day and night according to my P source.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In a way, a car you cannot use every day because you have to wait for good weather, ideal traffic conditions, have appetite and time for sporty driving etc.  is a unique pleasure when on the rarer occasions you have the opportunity to get behind the steering wheel. Such car is the GT3.

    it is like the mistress you can only meet once a week as opposed to your regular companion 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    In a way, a car you cannot use every day because you have to wait for good weather, ideal traffic conditions, have appetite and time for sporty driving etc.  is a unique pleasure when on the rarer occasions you have the opportunity to get behind the steering wheel. Such car is the GT3.

    it is like the mistress you can only meet once a week as opposed to your regular companion 

    Agree.  That takes us back to the PDK v. manual issue and the reason some of us want a manual option to make the GT3 feel more special on those occasions when we actually drive it.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Kreso, on that I have no doubt.Smiley

     On the other hand, it can be argued that the PanTS, is as fast as most sport cars, much more comfortable, can comfortably carry 5 passengers, has substantially more storage space and has a more unique footprint on the highway. 

    Reginos, all the requirements you mentioned to enjoy the Gt3 can also apply to most sport cars. Can't enjoy any of them if the road, weather or traffic is bad. That said, you're right the GT3 is a toy to be enjoyed when the "moment is right" AND you don't have to take a pill.Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    4 passengers Nick...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Depends on how large they are.Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    Depends on how large they are.Smiley

    Evidently you're counting the Chihuahua, or is it a Yorkie, riding shotgun on the rear center console.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:

    Nick

    So called overall "feel" difference between Pana TS and new 991 Turbo/Turbo S is day and night according to my P source.

    I actually heard that the 991 Turbo S was a tiny bit faster on the Nordschleife with street tires than the new GT3 with it's semi-slicks... Smiley The new active aerodynamics package and the highly improved AWD system apparently do the trick.

    Yes, track driving doesn't happen very often anymore for me, only if I get invited to a special event but usually this happens once a year, maybe twice. I would love to be more often on the track but my job and my family don't really leave enough time for that. I also have only two acceptable tracks near me, the Salzburg Ring and Hockenheim, so the choice is very limited since I cannot stay away for more than a day. Also some pro events usually last minimum two days, so they are a no-go for me. Smiley The problem is: When you get invited and you have to decline once, twice...well...no more invitations or they just come when you really don't need/want them (bad date, like during school vacations or late autumn/early spring). Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

     The Gt3 is a totally different car particularly the 991 because if Porsche is to be believed it will be more suitable for DD and yet a raw race car.

    the GT3 in the latest carnation is perhaps at best a race car inspired version of the racer but has more in common with the normal car, like the chassis and engine. For the older cars the heritage linage was more racer and hence those will be the ones most desired in the long run.

    Dont get me wrong the new GT3 is an amazing kit and likely to be huge fun to drive both on track and on the road but it is not a racer despite its looks. Drive the racer and you will know the difference.

    Therefore the difference with the TT is also marginal in track performance - they rely on the same engine and similar technological wonders to make them go around the corner fast.

    Personally I would get a MK1 997 GT3 RS if you really want a nice track toy with some on the road DD capabilities.


     


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    Off enjoying my car...

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    KresoF1:

    Nick

    So called overall "feel" difference between Pana TS and new 991 Turbo/Turbo S is day and night according to my P source.

    I actually heard that the 991 Turbo S was a tiny bit faster on the Nordschleife with street tires than the new GT3 with it's semi-slicks... Smiley The new active aerodynamics package and the highly improved AWD system apparently do the trick.

    Yes, track driving doesn't happen very often anymore for me, only if I get invited to a special event but usually this happens once a year, maybe twice. I would love to be more often on the track but my job and my family don't really leave enough time for that. I also have only two acceptable tracks near me, the Salzburg Ring and Hockenheim, so the choice is very limited since I cannot stay away for more than a day. Also some pro events usually last minimum two days, so they are a no-go for me. Smiley The problem is: When you get invited and you have to decline once, twice...well...no more invitations or they just come when you really don't need/want them (bad date, like during school vacations or late autumn/early spring). Smiley

    +1

     

    it will be interesting to see NBR time of TTS and GT3... when will we see real-world tests results-)?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Just out of interest, the 991 Turbo thread talks about various new options coming for November 2013, including reversing camera.

    Is this likely to be available for the GT3 ??

    (I know it's not 'that sort of car' but it would help to make it an easier daily driver and avoid careless parking dents / scratches at the station!)

    :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In short-AFAIK parking sensors and rear view camera will not be optional on new GT3.

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     

     

    New interview on 991 GT3 by AP. http://flatsixes.com/cars/911-gt2gt3gt3-rs/andreas-preuninger-interview-gt3/

     

    Very interesting as it talks of the 991 GT3 engine being used in 991 Cup/Motorsport Program shortly which should help shut up those who have been saying "no motorsport links". He continues to make a very strong case for PDK-S and seems very convinced this is the answer. He also states using his wife as an argument that the 991 GT3 is in many ways harder core than the outgoing model. Lastly he says there will be a folding bucket seat solution and that manual will be considered in the future  if demand is high enough for it ...

     

     

    FLATSIXES: Will the new engine in the 991 GT3 make it to Porsche motorsports? If so, can you say when and where?

    Andreas Preuninger: Sure, it was developed with this exact focus by the same engineers that did all of the flat-6 race and street engines in the past. The reason for not having the engine in the new 991 Cup is mainly timing, because Cup cars are already in production and the streetcar development is still ongoing, now in its last phase.

    Secondly, it is a totally different engine and as such, the education of the race teams on how to deal with the new technology is complex and has to be done right and in time.

    Future use of this engine in other 911 race cars is planned but in which form the engine will be used depends strongly on future regulations (for example turbo or non turbo).

    FS: What happens when "race track" mode is selected? How will it differ from "Sports Plus"?

    AP: Since we made the announcement, the function has been renamed to "PDK Sport" and only has influence on PDK shift programs. GT philosophy is "one button, one function" (not multiple functions—too confusing!) It is programmed for track use only and at very high load operation as it holds the gears longer and does not adjust to a lower performance level. It makes no sense on the street. Harder Shifts as well in manual mode.

    FS: Can Rear Wheel Steering be turned off and how much weight does it add?

    AP: It was planned to make it switchable and so I stated this already in earlier interviews. This is still under discussion at the moment because of the influence on ESP systems, which was not so clear some weeks (months) ago. So my initial statements might have been a little premature, sorry.

    Well see what we do, but it is definitely very cool proof positive when you can compare back to back. Weight of the system is easily compensated by improved agility and stability, as well as more "feel" for the car. System weight is about 7 kgs, the need for a bigger battery adds another 6.

    FS:Enthusiast and current 911 GT3 owners understand the new GT3 will outperform the previous generations by a wide margin, but still lament the lack a manual transmission for “driver involvement” purposes. Would you like to comment or address this?

    AP: PLEASE - Drive it before you judge it. Some people on the internet have such a strong opinion on that issue. Based on what? Surely not from experience.

    [The PDK] System is fun, fun, fun AND faster and a lot different to 991; another galaxy to 997 PDK. Parking in tight spots and getting out of garages etc. might be easier with a clutch that can be modulated, that’s true. But parking and getting out of garages is not the main development target on a GT car.

    When a huge part of our customers still insist on a manual we will not ignore this.But, a manual will be not only slower in acceleration but the car will also be less capable in cornering because we cannot combine the electronic e-diff with a manual, because there’s no hydraulic pump in the manual to feed the e-diff. Positive influence of e-diff is significant on turn in, under steer (none at all) and brake stability.

    BTW Car has not gotten "softer" or less focused. For example my own wife, used to a lot of GT cars in the past, considers the new one too loud, too hard and too race car-like... that should sound good to most ;-)

    FS: Will the 90 liter fuel tank add any weight? if so, how much? Does it alter trunk capacity, or is there no difference as in the previous versions?

    AP: The 90 liter tank is a non-cost option. We wanted to offer that option for the first time in the U.S too, because people complained about not being able to spec it in the US. System weighs maybe 1 kgs more that’s it. And no difference in trunk capacity against the smaller tank.

    FS:What has been done to address the center locking wheel issues? Do you anticipate any needed/scheduled maintenance on the new CL wheel?

    AP: [The} System is completely new, although the nut looks similar. It was developed with a focus on additional safety for hard track use but will still need replacement after a certain amount of "serious" tracking, that means at the limit of the cars capability.

    We don’t mean lapping the car at 50% of its potential, we are talking about maximum stress on all parts (as in a race or qualifying lap).

    As in every race car some components have to be replaced from time to time. This goes for 5 lug systems as well! If the GT3 is used similar to a race car its only logical that similar maintenance schedules will have to be applied. No race customer that buys a new 911 Cup car complains about that, because its "normal common sense." In street use ( incl. some "hobby tracking" without serious racing or consistent hot lapping) the normal maintenance routines are applicable, if the car is tracked regularly as its "number one purpose" then it has to undergo specific maintenance schedules, similar to those of a race car. Logically.

    The overhaul intervals (hard racetrack miles) of the new system will be higher than on the 997 system as some components are the exact same part as in the 991 Cup car.

    FS: Why are sport bucket seats not offered in the USA?

    AP: Unfortunately, the sport bucket seats in the communication car and shown at the New York Auto Show do not meet applicable homologation regulations and thus cannot be offered for sale at this time. PCNA is aware of the GREAT interest in this option and is working to find a solution to offer in the future. [we read this to mean that something SHOULD be available in the fall, but that's only our interpretation based on reading between the lines and a few "off the record" conversations.]

    Other Porsche Blog Posts You Will Enjoy


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    If I could get a time frame when these sport buckets seats will be available in the US I will wait to place my order. Obviously, if it's a year or two down the road then that my change my thinking including whether I order the car. I need to know what the dimensions of the sport bucket seat and the standard seat being offered. Anyone know where I can get this information?

    It appears that the sport bucket seats are a must on this car.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Can someone tell me how I can have an avatar? I cant find the option under the "profile" menu and want a picture?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I cannot imagine that AP would risk his credibility by overstating the eventual use of the new GT3 engine in Motorsport applications, which should go a long way toward establishing the 991 GT3's bona fides among those Porsche enthusiasts who are not poseurs.  It would also seem that despite the anticipated launch in the fall several production details have yet to be finalized.  That a manual will eventually be offered seems logical, but I am optimistic that PDK-S will prove equal to AP's enthusiasm.  


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Dave. I agree with you on all accounts however i suspect there will not be a manual in the 991 GT3/R Generation 1. Infact I think you are right and PDK-S once experienced on road and track will quieten the unwashed and if it does come back it wont be until 991.2 GT3/RS...


     
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