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    997 Turbo - Official performance

    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip)

    Top Speed : 310 Km/h (Man/Tip)

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip)

    Top Speed : 310 Km/h (Man/Tip)



    Your at it again , leave that phone alone cause his telling you porkie pies ..

    throt..

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Interesting! Specially 0-400m, differences here are very small... Exit speed is around 180km/h here for both versions... Difference should be bigger, if we look at 0-160km/h and 0-200km/h times, IMO. What about standing 1km?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    throt said:
    Quote:
    CF said:
    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip)

    Top Speed : 310 Km/h (Man/Tip)



    Your at it again , leave that phone alone cause his telling you porkie pies ..

    throt..





    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    And if their down playing the times like they do normally , it means the F430 going to have a sore arse..

    throt..

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    This is really depressing. Especially the 0-160 times.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    GT3 0-160km/h 8.7 with 1395kgs. Carbon seats, PCCB and semi-slicks worth another 0.1-0.2? Got to be close to an F430 and a bit close to a TT. Except if you buy Tiptronic

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    This is really depressing. Especially the 0-160 times.



    Whats depressing about the 0-160 km?? The tip is at 7.8...that is 1.4 seconds faster then the stock 996tt at 9.2

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    strawman said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    This is really depressing. Especially the 0-160 times.



    Whats depressing about the 0-160 km?? The tip is at 7.8...that is 1.4 seconds faster then the stock 996tt at 9.2



    The difference between the tip and manual to me is depressing. Don't get me wrong, I mean the performance is great. I just can't get over the difference in the times. The times should be the other way around. I can even live with equal times. But not this. No way. I'm a little, shall I say, pissed.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    The difference between the tip and manual to me is depressing. Don't get me wrong, I mean the performance is great. I just can't get over the difference in the times. The times should be the other way around. I can even live with equal times. But not this. No way. I'm a little, shall I say, pissed.



    I can tell you one thing, they times the Tip achieves better be from the Tip tranny's own merit, not because they have "de-tuned" the manuals software in someway or by restrincting a feature or something, in order to make the Tip appealing while the PDK is not ready.

    Becuase if the times are from something "outside" the Tip transmission's workings themselves, it will be a mayor suicide and let down in front of their fans for a Sportcar manufacturer of the likes of Porsche to artificially push a torque converter slush-box.

    Personally I can't see how a 5-speed heavy torque robbing torque converter auto can beat a 6-speed manual on its own merits, the technology as we know it does not allow that, the new Tip would have to be 1 second faster than the previous, it would be a mayor revolution in auto trannys, even bigger than the VTG, PTM, etc the Turbo has...

    So I will be looking very closely at the reason why the acceleration numbers are faster all of a sudden in the Tip than in the manual (and a first in a car that I know off), a reason Porsche has yet to provide us with...

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    The difference between the tip and manual to me is depressing. Don't get me wrong, I mean the performance is great. I just can't get over the difference in the times. The times should be the other way around. I can even live with equal times. But not this. No way. I'm a little, shall I say, pissed.



    I can tell you one thing, they times the Tip achieves better be from the Tip tranny's own merit, not because they have "de-tuned" the manual in someway by retrincting a feature or something, in order to make the Tip appealing while the PDK is not ready, becuase if the times are from something "outside" the Tip tansmission workings themselves it will be a mayor suicide and let down in front of their fans for a Sportcar manufacturer to artificially push an torque converter slush-box. Personally I can't see how a 5-speed heavy torque robbing torque converter auto can beat a 6-speed manual onw its own merit... so I will be looking very closely at the reason why the acceleration numbers are faster in the Tip, a reason Porsche has yet to provide us with...



    Carlos, I have two theories:

    1) The manual setup is detuned because the manual might not be able to handle the increase in torque.

    2) Porsche has changed the way they perform their acceleration tests. In this case, we need the independent testing from car mags and hopefully, they will choose both gearboxes to compare.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    1) The manual setup is detuned because the manual might not be able to handle the increase in torque.



    This would also be a mayor dissapointmet Alan. Porsche is a Sportcar company and the 911 is a Sportcar, they have to be able to develop and offer a manual box that can cope with the torque, after all there are many other cars with more torque and manual boxes, why shouldn't Porsche engineers as well?. De-tunning the manual would not be an option in car that is supposed to be a driver's car were the manual option is of upmost importance. We are not talking about a SUV or big Sedan were its no big deal. But we will find out becuase independant testing will show the engine HP/Torque performance figures for both.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    The difference between the tip and manual to me is depressing. Don't get me wrong, I mean the performance is great. I just can't get over the difference in the times. The times should be the other way around. I can even live with equal times. But not this. No way. I'm a little, shall I say, pissed.



    SoCal Alan,

    I know it may sound not as sporty when you talk about tip cars but you need to drive it for yourself and judge it.

    I felt the same way when my brother-in-law bought a 996TT tip and believe it or not this car is so fast that I couldn't believe it was automatic transmission. It actually let you concentrate on driving much better than the manual, at least to me.

    Now I can't imagine how much more improved and faster the 997TT tip model is . Personally I would buy the tips not becuase it's faster but the F1/PDK/MSG/Tip... are the next wave in driving pleasure.

    I think we're all (the manual lovers) in the same state as late '90s when we found out Porsche is saying good bye to air-cooled engines and going forward with water-cooled ones. Remember how many of us were pissed at Porsche? but the outcome was real awesome wasn't it? .

    As a word of advise test drive a tip 996TT not the std. carrera but the turbo and give me your opinion. 997TT will be 10X better.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Carlos, One question for you:
    Why is Porsche offering Rear axle differential lock for manual version only if TIP is faster?
    Manual with this option has better traction and will be faster around race track and in fast corners?
    Thanks!

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    I don't know yet that answer, maybe there is some incompatibility with the Tip and the rear LSD but as to performance it will not only give the manual-LSD car an advantage around the track, but also more importantly IMO, it will make it sportier and more fun to drive without an open diff on the rear axl.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Carlos,

    Maybe with the Tiptronic, the TT's electronics allow it to adjust and "synchronize" engine torque to optimally match traction and the rotational mass of the AWD system when the tiptronic changes gears.

    That could be achieved using the CAN Bus system to communicate with and is something that a automatic could do,
    but a manual transmission could not.


    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip)




    This is incredible and depresing.

    To this speed you need 2 gear changes. Even if the Tip took 0.00000 sec to change gears it would live 0.3 for the manual driver for each change and that is more than enough.

    What is wrong with the manual box (or engine I might say)

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Carlos,

    Maybe with the Tiptronic, the TT's electronics allow it to adjust and "synchronize" engine torque to optimally match traction and the rotational mass of the AWD system when the tiptronic changes gears.




    Maybe Jim, its a good point, but we are talking about a huge difference between the 996TT's Tip and the 997TT's Tip compared to the respective manual... was the 996TT Tip that horrible with so much room for improvement? I don't think so personally.
    And then there is the fact that "electronic sycronisation" has to bring out such a degree of improvement from a 5-gear slush box that I don't think posible in order to beat a 6-speed manual. A single clutch secuential witch is light as a manual, very very fast and does not take any torque form the engine during the shifts can only match the acceleration times of the manual version, a double clutch just manages to beat it by a margin. But the allways lagging behind 5-gear torque converter Tip can all of a sudden not only match but beat the manual being offered?

    I can't help but think that there is more behind this that meets the eye, and there is something we don't know yet.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Agreed, something is fishy. Maybe they are holding something back for Geneva.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    0-60 MPH : 3.7/3.4 (Man/Tip)
    0-100 Km/h : 3.9/3.7 (Man/Tip)
    0-160 Km/h : 8.4/7.8 (Man/Tip)
    0-200 Km/h : 12.8/12.2 (Man/Tip)

    0-400 m : 11.8/11.6 (Man/Tip)

    Top Speed : 310 Km/h (Man/Tip)



    The disaster should be completed by the 0-300 times.

    I bet that the manual is quicker than the tip version at higher speeds.

    So you can either buy a car which is quicker 0-200 or a car that is quicker 0-300. What a clever marketing idea

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Maybe the manual is too weak for the extra torque of the VTG. Maybe it gets "ropey" when shifting the newly added extra torque mixed with the AWD.

    For what its worth, on some big block 60's era muscle cars like Dodge Hemis and Oldsmobile 455 cu inch W30's, the automatics seemed to turn in better accelleration numbers than the manual shift cars. The torque effect was so strong that the manuals could not consistently change gears as quick as the automatics ...unless you speed shifted them.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    If their current manual box could not take the torque, they NEED to offer one that does, this is a 911 we are talking about, they can't hold back on the manual's performance just because its carry over tranny is not up to par with the new engine. An adecuate manual gearbox is expected on such a car, a auto-Tip is not an option for many Sportcar buyers and it does not represent what the 911 has stood for all these years.

    It would be like not allowing slicks on the new GT3 just because the previous lubrification system can no longuer handle the new GT3's performance or something like that.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Showing my ignorance here, but...
    Is there any way they could have re-engineered the Tiptronic so that the torque loss is negligible? I don't know if this is even possible with a conventional automatic.

    How else can we explain better times with heavier car, 1 less gear ratio, and torque loss to boot? Either that is one hell of a Tiptronic upgrade, or the manual cars are in fact de-tuned somehow. Since I can't fathom the latter, it must be a somehow upgraded Tiptronic. As someone else mentioned, I would love to know the 0-300kph times.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    There's nothing wrong or inferior with the "NEW" manual gearbox for the 997 Turbo.

    It's the Tiptronic that's been completely redesigned and now offer what's technologically possible for a Tiptronic gearbox, and that just happens to be better than what a manual gearbox has to offer in terms of acceleration numbers at certain speed intervals.

    To me it seems that some of you would prefer if they held back the development of the Tiptronic gearboxes in order to make the manual more competitive.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Carlos, it would not be the first time that Porsche has used a weak manual gearbox design that did not match
    engine output.

    If the new GT3 does NOT have a real, NON M96 type dry sump lubrication system, that would be the last Porsche news we need to hear.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    The GT3 use the same engine block as before.
    Old GT1 block, same as 997 Turbo.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    If the new Gt3 had less weight, or maybe some sort of tiptronic system... (FOR GOD NO TIPTRONIC i mean PDK) it would be a really BEAST....

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    CF said:
    There's nothing wrong or inferior with the "NEW" manual gearbox for the 997 Turbo.

    It's the Tiptronic that's been completely redesigned and now offer what's technologically possible for a Tiptronic gearbox, and that just happens to be better than what a manual gearbox has to offer in terms of acceleration numbers at certain speed intervals.

    To me it seems that some of you would prefer if they held back the development of the Tiptronic gearboxes in order to make the manual more competitive.



    Ok then, since you keep mentioning that its all because the Tiptronic has been completely redesigned, then tell us how exactly does the NEW 5-speed torque converter Tip achieve the performance of a 6-speed dual-clucth and betters the performance of the Ferrari and BMW 6-speed secuentials? what has been redesigned, what has been changed? .. that would stop all the needless hypothesising that has been going on, so what are you basing your statement on?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    CF said:
    There's nothing wrong or inferior with the "NEW" manual gearbox for the 997 Turbo.

    It's the Tiptronic that's been completely redesigned and now offer what's technologically possible for a Tiptronic gearbox, and that just happens to be better than what a manual gearbox has to offer in terms of acceleration numbers at certain speed intervals.

    To me it seems that some of you would prefer if they held back the development of the Tiptronic gearboxes in order to make the manual more competitive.



    Ok then, since you keep mentioning that is all because the Tiptronic that's been completely redesigned then tell us how exactly does the NEW 5-speed torque converter Tip achieves the performance of a 6-speed dual-clucth and betters the performance of the Ferrari and BMW 6-speed secuentials? what has been redesigned? .. that would stop all the hypothesising, so what are you basing your statement on?



    They can redesign as much as they like: The Tip will be slower (compared to manual) between 200kph and top-speed as it has only five gears.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Official performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    They can redesign as much as they like: The Tip will be slower (compared to manual) between 200kph and top-speed as it has only five gears.



    lol dont be so sure... logicaly you are right... but i have a strange feeling that the tiptronic will be faster!!

     
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