Crown

Board: Porsche - Taycan Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:

    And Elon is up to his old tricks.

    Pushing employees to deliver cars as the quarter drawing to a close, trying to artificially inflate the delivery number to make Wall Street think they did delivered on their promise.

    "Quality control out the window, we can fix those problems later or not at all", they NEEDED extra sales number to prop up stock price.

    Well we will have some first hand experience since my car is in that delivery batch Smiley

     

    And I hope your car will be delivered flawlessly, you been waiting and wanting it! Smiley

    And the famous 918 has been torn into how many pieces since delivery?  Doubt this will ever happen to any Tesla. All your cars have been trouble free and perfect?  That’s cool. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    My 2009 $150k Cayenne TTS was traded in with a squeaky sunroof that could never been fixed despite 4 visits to the dealer... My Macan had the entire lower console go out not allowing any climate or any functions there to be usable, it also had a noisy exhaust that needed 3 visits to the dealer to be fixed. My 911 had the dreaded RMS seal leak that haunted the 911s for a decade. Recently GT3 have had engine and gearboxes replaced. My original Cayenne Turbo had a 7mm unaligned rear door that was never fixed and the entire infotainment had to be replaced, and several buttons were peeling after only 2 years. And don’t even get me started about the problems during the life of my top of the line Q7, least to say after 10 years but only 40,000 miles it was garbage.

    At this point, it honestly does not matter how bad the Tesla will be, the bar is already so low, it is all about expectations.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:

    And Elon is up to his old tricks.

    Pushing employees to deliver cars as the quarter drawing to a close, trying to artificially inflate the delivery number to make Wall Street think they did delivered on their promise.

    "Quality control out the window, we can fix those problems later or not at all", they NEEDED extra sales number to prop up stock price.

    Well we will have some first hand experience since my car is in that delivery batch Smiley

     

    And I hope your car will be delivered flawlessly, you been waiting and wanting it! Smiley

    And the famous 918 has been torn into how many pieces since delivery?  Doubt this will ever happen to any Tesla. All your cars have been trouble free and perfect?  That’s cool. 

     

    The dash came out 6 times, the whole body disassembled for various reasons 4 times, split once, rear suspension changed twice, front once, one the second set of charging system, front brake replaced once, brake pads all around once, and also on second set of tires.

    It's a hand built car with all prototype parts, what else do you expect? Smiley 

    As a comparison, Porsche's mass market car, the Cayenne and 911s, think I have had 10 of them now? Picking up #11 soon, none of them needed anything. Neither did my GT4CS race car which I really thrashed around.

    Teslas are all mass market car, and Elon had famously said they are suppose to set the standard, well that bar is pretty low. 

    Anyways, Tesla is not playing in that high end market, their competitors are the near luxury premium segment, with Acura, Infiniti and Lexus, Jaguar, etc. And while It might compete with Jaguar for reliability but far behind the others. 


    --

     

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla Model S, X with "Hardware 3" for Full Self-Driving now in production

    https://apple.news/APiPiDjLWSZ67TWPJWhngtA

    Hardware to be upgraded later on all recent models with full driving option... Good luck getting a hardware upgrade with the dinosaurs... And some new features:

    Tesla rolls out AutoSteer Stop Light Warning for Autopilot in latest software update

    https://apple.news/AshatidRMSq6LiKJGc79meA

    On another note, just got a text my X is being delivered to my home early next week smiley dealers are a thing of the past, well let’s  see how the delivery and plates goes... Since I am away anyway Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I’m confused. You just took delivery on a 3 and getting an X delivered next week?yes


    --

    There is nothing stronger than gentleness.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    I’m confused. You just took delivery on a 3 and getting an X delivered next week?yes

     

    He doesn't have the Model 3, he ordered the Model X to sort of replace the Macan he loved I believe.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Right; X no 3in sight, not a sedan family... So the delivery process looks messy, got another text for another date at another location...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Right; X no 3in sight, not a sedan family... So the delivery process looks messy, got another text for another date at another location...

     

    Aren't they suppose to deliver the car to your doorstep?

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-increase-model-y-price/

     

    LOL, the just announced vapour ware Model Y isn't even in production yet and Elon already raised the price by $1000. 

    Like seriously, did he not planned anything at all? The car was just introduced last week, and the whole company didn't even know the car was needing a price hike?

    The price hike was also for all inventory cars starting April 1st, basically the price hike was to boost end of quarter sales, tempting people to buy their inventory before the end of quarter. Another dirty trick Elon is employing to try and meet the expected delivery numbers. They must be short of that and needed the boost.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-increase-model-y-price/

     

    LOL, the just announced vapour ware Model Y isn't even in production yet and Elon already raised the price by $1000. 

    Like seriously, did he not planned anything at all? The car was just introduced last week, and the whole company didn't even know the car was needing a price hike?

    The price hike was also for all inventory cars starting April 1st, basically the price hike was to boost end of quarter sales, tempting people to buy their inventory before the end of quarter. Another dirty trick Elon is employing to try and meet the expected delivery numbers. They must be short of that and needed the boost.

    Tempting buyers with discounts or coming price hikes is a dirty trick?  Sounds a little silly to accuse him of that and casts serious doubt on all other observations.  This is not criminal or even a bad business practice. There is still this huge misconception that these decisions are made in some uninformed manner rather than the result of scientific business research and endless computational analysis.  Maybe it’s just wishful thinking though I don’t know why. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    I have see a couple of 720S playing but the guys are not fast enough...indecision

    The 720S is a very fast car...on the Autobahn. Smiley Our driving group had a 720S joining last weekend (I didn't join because I wouldn't have stood a chance in a C63 S Cab Smiley and my wife had the E63 with her, going skiing in Austria) and while one could argue that the roads were still a bit cold (we had up to 20°C in the mountains), the 720S couldn't keep up with the others. The driver is a guy who joined the driving group often in other cars, he knows how to drive. 720S has serious traction issues at the speeds the group was traveling, so... Only on the way from Munich to Garmisch (mostly Autobahn), the 720S "destroyed" the other cars. I can see why some car enthusiasts prefer the new 600LT over the 720S. Smiley 

     

    Your observation seems to be opposite of mine and also from the AMS test. Normally you can't find out which cars are faster on public roads. You can find out who (driver)  has more fear or more  respect.

    I have tested twice a 720s and the grip of this car is huge. Compared to the GT3 RS with much wider tires and engine above the axle it is incredible how much grip the 720s has.

    Driving on Schwarzwald twisties the 720s feels much safer than GT3RS.

    Here is a AMS test comparing GT2RS and 720s. 

    Google translate from German

    We anchor briefly on the meta-level, so as not to be carried away by the crazy performance data. Let's ask ourselves: Can an advantage be a disadvantage at the same time? Here, at the 720S, it seems that way. With the exception of the P1, all McLaren are a further development of the 2011 MP4-12C. This has brought the mid-engine sports car to a level that shakes benchmarks and makes it a serious rival to the Porsche 911 GT2 RS. Like now and here in this test.

    Now the downside: The concept of evolution makes the McLaren models look very similar. You have to deal intensively with the range to distinguish a 540C from a 720S, although over 75,000 euros between them.

     Mercedes-AMG GT R - Corvette Z06 - Sports Car - Test Test Mercedes-AMG GT R against Corvette Z06 Nordschleifen heroes in the Hockenheim duel

    Evolution? That's the specialty of Porsche. There they are constantly shaping new variants from the 911, which are finding rapid sales, if only they are expensive and rare enough. This idiosyncratic logic follows the GT2 RS in full.

     

    Nevertheless: The Extreme-911 is a sports car, which has worked its way up through meticulous factory tuning in the super-area. This has something of shirt-sleeving macho mentality and comes despite 700 PS just so popular.

    In contrast, the McLaren was born as a super athlete and thus belongs to the elite, which is inexplicably under permanent suspicion. A 720S is already eyed maliciously at 25 km / h in the Tempo 30 zone, as if bringing corruption to the righteous.

    The different descent is shown by Banalem. The Porsche opens its doors hardly unlike a VW Golf - you just get in, no insider knowledge needed. For the McLaren already: For him, first the door opener pad to be felt, which sticks upright in the side air duct. After pressure on the hinged door floats up.

    Choreography of boarding

    But how do you thread your body into the narrow tunnel between sill, center console, steering wheel and bucket seat? The left hand grips the door handle best, while the right is supported on the seat back. Then the gas foot pierces the footwell. Slowly let the trunk sink down and make up the left leg at an angle. Attention: Without exercise, this move lacks any hint of coolness.

     

    Ferrari 488 GTB in Supertest With a biturbo V8 in 7:22 min over the Nordschleife

    The 720S is really cool, as unfussy as it is. And currently the only really conceived mid-engine two-seater of the top trio, which still includes the Ferrari 488 GTB and the Lamborghini Huracán. But while both are made of metal, the McLaren derives its precision from a carbon fiber chassis. This allows his periphery even more dramatic leaps in development.

     

    With its completely squeezed out 911 concept and the heavy engine in the rear of the GT2 RS should be pretty much at the end. It is no different to note that they have recently installed the engine in the 911 version of Porsche in front of the rear axle.

     

    Racing version, is not that already the GT2 RS? One might think in the face of the missing rear seats, the purist door loops and the optionally available roll cage. In addition, the body decorates NACA air intakes, vents, flared fenders and an adjustable in the pitch rear wing, the exhaust regulations, er, exhausted.

     

    The chassis can be changed by lane and fall in character. For record-breaking rides, like that of colleagues at sport auto, the wheels are allowed to stand x-legged with optimized curves and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 ZB tires mounted. These look suspiciously like slicks in the outer area. The GT2 RS would not be standard anymore after the changes.

     

    For our comparison test, the GT2 RS is in the slower road configuration, as they receive the customers. The nervous tail could be, among other things, calm down on the steeply adjusted wing, but that costs top speed. By the way, the Porsche at the Parabolica in Hockenheim already misses nine km / h on the McLaren.

     

     Lamborghini Huracán Performant, Porsche 911 GT2 RS, Exterior Porsche 911 GT2 RS & Lamborghini Huracán High-performance race track-worthy super athletes in the test

    He comes without brimstone, without Chichi and without tuning appeal. What is the fact that the two-seater is already designed as a super athlete, wearing aerodynamics inside and the body is flowed through in helpful places.

     

    Only with heavy braking does the otherwise inconspicuously flush-fitted rear wing lift up. However, if you drive in track mode, the so-called Airbrake is highly effective and the 720S sucks itself in courageous curves ground-effectively. Exactly where the GT2 RS is to be used with caution.

     

    Hockenheim, GP course. Both catapult out of the hairpin - the Porsche explosive, unruly, the McLaren uniform, unspectacular. Its turbo lag is more pronounced than that of the GT2 RS. Despite the new twin-scroll loader, it takes a moment for the 180-degree crankshaft V8 to rocket, which sounds a bit like two four-cylinder racing cars. Then thrust follows with relentless tenacity until - peng - a train on the steering wheel paddle shoots the next gear in the drive train.

     

    In the McLaren fast without fear sweat

     

    Peng again. When the right bend approaches towards the Mercedes grandstand, over 200 km / h are on the clock. Brake for a short time. Inside a wall, outside spout - but not enough, as that he could play down a spin.

     

    The McLaren aims at the inside, can be gently pushed out under light load - neutral, free of jerking and with a trusting feeling in the steering. Typical carbon fiber car: There is no facet hanging in any twist, as any information is passed directly from the chassis via chassis to the pilot. Bluntly.

     

    720 hp and 770 Nm alone on the rear axle at not too high weight: In a mid-engined super sports car, the border region has traditionally adhered to a male-distinctive fragrance. In other words, respect can turn into fear here. But then you sit in the McLaren, driving fast, faster, even faster. Without heroic feelings, without fear sweat. And you pull the helmet - before the engineering, to equip a mid-engine car with so much modesty.

     

     McLaren 720S, exterior photo: Achim Hartmann

    Even in the precise 720S you can drift.

    And the Porsche? He comes across as soon as you give in a bit too fast. At over 180 km / h. Adrenalin outbreak, counter-steering, embrace (!). Uff, no counter. Rescued. Mannomann: That was a touch too fast to continue grinning. That generates respect. And warm armpits.

     

    Already in the left hook as approach to the Parabolica pulled the quiet 720S away - while the GT2 RS fought with his rear. Then, in the Parabolica, the sensors reported a dull Hab-Eight sensation. That is not pleasant over 250 km / h. Then, in turn seven, the high-speed crossbar.

     

    You have to brace yourself to stay in range of the McLaren with the standard chassis and wing configuration. Must pinch body parts that should actually be loose to feel the grip of the tires. Without resounding success: At the end of all driving efforts and steering wheel acrobatics, the GT2 RS is still 0.9 seconds back in Hockenheim.

     

    The McLaren is more stable

     

    Here, the loose-fitting tail outside in the woods was almost a fun guarantor. There, where the radii are so narrow that country road speed really feels like speed. As the extreme-Elfer steers fleet-footed, the tail aligns itself virtually alone to the curve exit. Or a little bit beyond that, when the gas foot helps gently.

     

    With the grippy steering wheel you hold the car in your hand loosely, prances with him up the mountain and back down - almost playful. Every turn feels like a personal best, and the 3.8-liter boxer engine mimics the good old sucker dialect from 3,500 rpm onwards. It's just adorable.

     

    However, falls on enchanted streets, that the 720S is much more stable. That he surrounds the driver tighter. That he beats down bumps instead of jumping over them. That consequently his rear tires bite with integrity into the asphalt, instead of losing ground contact. That the steering complains even more sensitively every winter break - even if it sometimes beats easily.

     

    Sports car registrations May 2018 Porsche 911 with sovereign monthly victory

    And that the seven-speed double coupler less driven downshifts - the four-liter therefore his enormous torque may play well. In the McLaren one is much faster fast than in the Porsche. Free exertion. But also less spectacular.

     

    Then you rethink the whole thing again and wonders: Are mid-engine super sports not as critical in the border area and the 911 as good-natured? Here, in this test, a worldview turns around.

     

    McLaren disrespects the voting champions from Weissach and beats them on their own terrain. The 720S accelerates to 200 km / h one second better. Stands from the same pace over ten feet earlier. Is faster on the circuit. And is even cheaper.

     

    Victory. That should lift the mood - at least in England.

     

    Conclusion

     

    1. McLaren 720S

    240 points

    Quite impressive ... And we do not mean the power of more than 700 hp, but the handzahme vote of the 720S.

     

    2. Porsche 911 GT2 RS

    218 points

    The GT2 RS is the wild dog that many would put a muzzle out of pure caution.


    --

    AM


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-increase-model-y-price/

     

    LOL, the just announced vapour ware Model Y isn't even in production yet and Elon already raised the price by $1000. 

    Like seriously, did he not planned anything at all? The car was just introduced last week, and the whole company didn't even know the car was needing a price hike?

    The price hike was also for all inventory cars starting April 1st, basically the price hike was to boost end of quarter sales, tempting people to buy their inventory before the end of quarter. Another dirty trick Elon is employing to try and meet the expected delivery numbers. They must be short of that and needed the boost.

    Tempting buyers with discounts or coming price hikes is a dirty trick?  Sounds a little silly to accuse him of that and casts serious doubt on all other observations.  This is not criminal or even a bad business practice. There is still this huge misconception that these decisions are made in some uninformed manner rather than the result of scientific business research and endless computational analysis.  Maybe it’s just wishful thinking though I don’t know why. 

     

    Your want to have the stock go up in price seems to have clouded your judgement. And also the fact that you wish an American car company to do well.

    Had they done proper research and analysis then they wouldn't have the need to increase the price by $1000 a weekend after the car is announced. 

    As for the 2nd part of the price hike on existing inventory after the quarter ends, those cars are already produced sitting unsold in the lot, and their forecast of demand and actual sales is falling short of target, hence the need to entice buyers to buy before their quarter ends to prop up the sales number. It's simple as that.

    It's the exact same car that will cost $1000 more for no reason other than trying to push the buying pattern to the current quarter. The produced car didn't magically cost more to make while sitting in the lot. 

    Think rationally. Use common sense. 

    And no I did not accuse Elon of doing anything criminal or illegal this time around. It's the timing of the announcement that makes it a 'dirty trick' to prop up sales number, nothing more.

    Stock price of Tesla has their 'expected' 'exponential" growth fully priced in already. It's falling simply because the numbers don't add up and the expected growth isn't there. It's just reality. 

    Will Tesla disappeared? Nope. It will survive as a car company and I am sure of that. But it's just that the stock price will continue to fall to match the actual results, The multiplier will continue to shrink as there will be no more 'exponential growth'. Organic growth? Yes, Tesla will sell more cars as the EV segment expands, but it will lose the monopoly so they will have to fight tooth and nail with the incoming competition. They don't do boutique cars anymore, with the Model 3 and the incoming Model Y, they are going for the mainstream 'affordable' EV segment, against major manufacturers that have much deeper pockets and can afford to price cars at a loss simply to gain market share, that's a tactic Tesla simply cannot afford to attempt as they are short on cash. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Dynamic pricing. It looks chaotic alright, but at least it is fair and publicly announced, unlike other manufacturers dumping their inventory secretly. Tesla will not be afraid to explore new ways to sell cars.Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Adnan, you should know by now that there is a huge difference between what you read in car magazines and how it comes down to real life experience. I can only tell you what the guys told me, I wasn't there with them. Smiley The car had serious traction issues (in the sense that it doesn't put the power down properly, not that it spirals out of control) in the 0-150 kph speed range and the turbo lag is also an issue in fast changing curves. Both combined made it slower than other cars. I am talking about public roads, not the track...the typical mountain roads (Schwarzwald would be a similar experience to some point, I remember the roads there). Car had Corsa tires, not anything extreme. Similar to the other cars in the group, some even had Cup 2.

    On the Autobahn however, over 200 kph...the 720S was much faster than anything, including the SVJ in the group.

    We are going to have a 600LT in our midst in a couple of months, I am curious how this one will perform. Should put the power easier on the road, we'll see.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    Adnan, you should know by now that there is a huge difference between what you read in car magazines and how it comes down to real life experience. I can only tell you what the guys told me, I wasn't there with them. Smiley The car had serious traction issues (in the sense that it doesn't put the power down properly, not that it spirals out of control) in the 0-150 kph speed range and the turbo lag is also an issue in fast changing curves. Both combined made it slower than other cars. I am talking about public roads, not the track...the typical mountain roads (Schwarzwald would be a similar experience to some point, I remember the roads there). Car had Corsa tires, not anything extreme. Similar to the other cars in the group, some even had Cup 2.

    On the Autobahn however, over 200 kph...the 720S was much faster than anything, including the SVJ in the group.

    We are going to have a 600LT in our midst in a couple of months, I am curious how this one will perform. Should put the power easier on the road, we'll see.

    But I have experience with the car. To be honestly limited to a few hours. And even I used normal P Zero - the traction was incredible. I have used the unofficial Porsche street test track around Weissach and Flacht. The road is really bad with a lot of bumps and narrow. Talking about tracking issues in a 720s is far away from reality. With normal P zero. The turbo lag you mentioned, you have no chance to feel in powertrain track modus. You feel it only on modus normal. They are doing a great job with the traction control to let the turbo spin. 

    On the other hand, AMS is always near Porsche. 


    --

    AM


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The 720S feels very powerful (and it is) but the traction control is so good that you won't see any lamp flashing and/or any power stuttering. It is a very linear power distribution experience, which makes McLaren so unique. Best traction control system on the market, only Porsche comes close to it with the new GT2 RS.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-increase-model-y-price/

     

    LOL, the just announced vapour ware Model Y isn't even in production yet and Elon already raised the price by $1000. 

    Like seriously, did he not planned anything at all? The car was just introduced last week, and the whole company didn't even know the car was needing a price hike?

    The price hike was also for all inventory cars starting April 1st, basically the price hike was to boost end of quarter sales, tempting people to buy their inventory before the end of quarter. Another dirty trick Elon is employing to try and meet the expected delivery numbers. They must be short of that and needed the boost.

    Tempting buyers with discounts or coming price hikes is a dirty trick?  Sounds a little silly to accuse him of that and casts serious doubt on all other observations.  This is not criminal or even a bad business practice. There is still this huge misconception that these decisions are made in some uninformed manner rather than the result of scientific business research and endless computational analysis.  Maybe it’s just wishful thinking though I don’t know why. 

     

    Your want to have the stock go up in price seems to have clouded your judgement. And also the fact that you wish an American car company to do well.

    Had they done proper research and analysis then they wouldn't have the need to increase the price by $1000 a weekend after the car is announced. 

    As for the 2nd part of the price hike on existing inventory after the quarter ends, those cars are already produced sitting unsold in the lot, and their forecast of demand and actual sales is falling short of target, hence the need to entice buyers to buy before their quarter ends to prop up the sales number. It's simple as that.

    It's the exact same car that will cost $1000 more for no reason other than trying to push the buying pattern to the current quarter. The produced car didn't magically cost more to make while sitting in the lot. 

    Think rationally. Use common sense. 

    And no I did not accuse Elon of doing anything criminal or illegal this time around. It's the timing of the announcement that makes it a 'dirty trick' to prop up sales number, nothing more.

    Stock price of Tesla has their 'expected' 'exponential" growth fully priced in already. It's falling simply because the numbers don't add up and the expected growth isn't there. It's just reality. 

    Will Tesla disappeared? Nope. It will survive as a car company and I am sure of that. But it's just that the stock price will continue to fall to match the actual results, The multiplier will continue to shrink as there will be no more 'exponential growth'. Organic growth? Yes, Tesla will sell more cars as the EV segment expands, but it will lose the monopoly so they will have to fight tooth and nail with the incoming competition. They don't do boutique cars anymore, with the Model 3 and the incoming Model Y, they are going for the mainstream 'affordable' EV segment, against major manufacturers that have much deeper pockets and can afford to price cars at a loss simply to gain market share, that's a tactic Tesla simply cannot afford to attempt as they are short on cash. 

     

    Nick.  I’m just as often short as I am long on stocks. Especially Tesla. Sometimes several times a day.  It is a bitch to trade but fun. I was just amused by your declaration that an announced price hike is viewed as a dirty trick. Given any other car dealership I hope you know not all their prices are even the same. As far as Tesla being American I would remind you that my first language is German and I’m Austrian. Lol. I’m just not as negative when it comes to Tesla because I see them all over the place and their speed and utility are simply amazing. Very practical and clearly the future.  They may not have all their ducks in a row but I like how they arrange them. I have no idea what drives your negativity. If you were short that would at least explain it but ...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    His negativity is driven by reality... indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Reality is only when you have owned and used a specific vehicle. Ownership experience, which is quite different from paper benchmarking.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Reality is only when you have owned and used a specific vehicle. Ownership experience, which is quite different from paper benchmarking.

    True but I won't forget my first and last Tesla S experience...great and fun gadget, lousy car. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
     

    Nick.  I’m just as often short as I am long on stocks. Especially Tesla. Sometimes several times a day.  It is a bitch to trade but fun. I was just amused by your declaration that an announced price hike is viewed as a dirty trick. Given any other car dealership I hope you know not all their prices are even the same. As far as Tesla being American I would remind you that my first language is German and I’m Austrian. Lol. I’m just not as negative when it comes to Tesla because I see them all over the place and their speed and utility are simply amazing. Very practical and clearly the future.  They may not have all their ducks in a row but I like how they arrange them. I have no idea what drives your negativity. If you were short that would at least explain it but ...

     

    I hadd been trading Tesla stocks from ~$18 to ~$150, after that I don't even go near it. I have no stake on Tesla, long or short for a long time. Just a sideline observer so I am not swayed one way or another.

    As a independent stock trader, I do my own research, the more I look at Tesla's numbers, the more it does't make sense. Not as a 'tech' company and certainly not as a car company. The buy side had always repeat basically the same point over an over again, that it is the future and people will flog to buy Tesla and nothing else. Also ignoring all the warning flags from questionable numbers. The short side one the other hand basically ask questions about where will all the new demand come from, where the money will come from, how will Tesla make all those cars, and how will it cope with competition. While the more extreme people think it will go bankrupt.

    A lot of the questions from the short side are legitimate and Elon had no answer for, nor the buy side people, basically the answer from the buy side is that trust Elon, he is god and he will deliver. Hmm ok. It works as Tesla fans are like cult followers, they buy into whatever Elon says. 

    The cultists says Tesla is ground breaking, at the technology forefront, etc. But they forgot Tesla is not the first EV ever, and the technology while advanced, is not unachievable by others, especially those with deep pockets. The basic EV car is extremely simple, much more so than a ICE car. 

    EV cars serves a nice purpose as a great city car, it does clean up the air, but cars only emit so much, to really clean up the air, the commercial vehicles are the ones that should be targeted, they travel a lot more miles than any car in any household will ever go. As I see it, Elon is misguided in concentrating his attention at the mass market EV first. He should have gone after the trucking business first. Mass market EV segment is crowded with fierce price competition, Tesla don't have the deep pocket to play in there yet. But the commercial market has no competition, he could jump from a premium car segment monopoly to a commercial segment monopoly, they already have the gigafactory cranking out loads of battery packs, and using the commercial truck business as an outlet for battery production, they could overnight slash their per pack cost even more using economics of scale, then they will have the price advantage to compete in the mass market EV segment. 

    Had they done that first, then the extra premium growth priced into the stock could be justified. And perhaps even increased. 

    It's a tactical misstep, like the Germans invading Russia in WW2. Mass market EV segment is Russia, Tesla the company is going to waste most of their effort fighting tooth and nail there, when they could have easily conquer the commercial business first and enjoy the monopoly like they did with the Model S and Model X. 

    It's the personal ego getting in the way of clear logical thinking for Elon. Just like it did back then for Hitler.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Well it might not be too late to go for the trucking though since there is no real competition yet either. I think the issue with trucking was battery costs. The tech simply was not ready.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Well it might not be too late to go for the trucking though since there is no real competition yet either. I think the issue with trucking was battery costs. The tech simply was not ready.

     

    There is no tech, It is basically the same drivetrain in the Model S, X, 3 scaled up, there is nothing special about using them in a truck.

    And the battery cost is a non-issue, those trucks are on leases and finances, no one pay full retail for commercial truck in one go. And Tesla already have the price advantage of mass production at their own factory.

    Problem is Tesla only have capital to do ONE program at a time. They can't do both the Model 3/Y AND the truck at the same time.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Thank you for your informative and well thought out response Nick.  You clearly have much more experience and success when it comes to market decisions and I appreciate that tremendously. Thanks again. 

    Day trading often has a diffent focus or measure than long term but it would be wise to never ignore the long term issues as you point out. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla may be in for additional volatility next week after the SEC successfully argued to the court that Musk's legal team should no longer provide additional briefs to the court.  The court date is April 4th.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    And this why it can be profitable to day trade it. Or a disaster. It’s just about movement and not getting psyched out. The market is ONLY about separating the little investors from their money.  Never forget that. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla Model Y Beats Audi E-Tron, Others In Electric SUV Buyers’ Choice Poll

    Not even close:

    https://apple.news/AVoLjspI6M2ibphdKiQe5sw


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Tesla Model Y Beats Audi E-Tron, Others In Electric SUV Buyers’ Choice Poll

    Not even close:

    https://apple.news/AVoLjspI6M2ibphdKiQe5sw

    Tesla already has a (quite positive) reputation in the EV market, Audi has basically none.

    Just wait...things will change. Fast. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    So my delivery location/method has changed for the 5th time on the site and my delivery specialist has reverted back to the original one after 3 other names. Granted the fact I registered the car in one place near a specific center and trying to have it delivered to another place near another center might have created havoc 

    I have received two texts and one email earlier in the week but nothing since, not clear the car is even ready to deliver, says in transit. I guess they don’t want it to count for this quarter angry maybe it is delivery hell... Still, estimated delivery was “End of March” the day I ordered it, so they are well within what is deemed reasonable...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    So my delivery location/method has changed for the 5th time on the site and my delivery specialist has reverted back to the original one after 3 other names. Granted the fact I registered the car in one place near a specific center and trying to have it delivered to another place near another center might have created havoc 

    I have received two texts and one email earlier in the week but nothing since, not clear the car is even ready to deliver, says in transit. I guess they don’t want it to count for this quarter angry maybe it is delivery hell... Still, estimated delivery was “End of March” the day I ordered it, so they are well within what is deemed reasonable...

    Sounds like one of my last Amazon orders for 7.60 EUR. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    747976 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 8/11/21 2:00 PM
    throt
     
     
     
     
     
    447273 1287
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 9/18/21 4:38 PM
    BiTurbo
    165899 1096
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 9/17/21 8:59 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    65311 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 9/18/21 11:06 AM
    watt
    53923 510
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    46414 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    42897 380
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    11948 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    464258 3586
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 6/25/21 2:56 PM
    the-missile
    384643 3506
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 8/12/21 4:57 PM
    Topspeed
    381101 3918
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    346957 3252
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    334863 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    316949 2646
    Porsche 992 GT3 9/17/21 4:41 PM
    lexs4
    262053 2975
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 7/20/21 3:10 PM
    Topspeed
    249591 1567
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    167356 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    143159 792
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    117819 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/30/21 4:07 PM
    WhoopsyM
    101304 735
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/5/21 4:30 PM
    BjoernB
    91982 1221
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    81962 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    71243 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    71073 824
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    50493 596
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 9/14/21 1:11 PM
    BjoernB
    47131 1165
    Others Bugatti Chiron 7/22/21 6:55 PM
    Topspeed
    41877 480
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
    39677 531
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    38400 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    30379 394
    270 items found, displaying 1 to 30.