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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:

    I think that new GT3 is awsome sportscar. To repeat again AWSOME. For the first time I am thinking very hard indeed about buying new GT3. So, Porsche did great job, at least IMO. New 991 Turbo will be awsome as well. As fast on the Ring as new GT3(both below 7.30min and do not be supriesed at all IF HvS achieve below 7.30min in new GT3) and with all goodies.

    New GT3 is a true GT3 in its core. Some still have doubts? Well, time will tell that I was right from the start.

    Maybe you misunderstood me. I have the very same opinion here, I just wanted two more seats in the back. Smiley

    The new GT3 will be the best selling GT3 ever in my opinion but the new technology will also attract a lot of criticism, especially among die hard GT3 lovers and track racing amateurs. In the end, they will experience the superb track times the new GT3 achieves, so at some point, the criticism may tone down a little bit. Not sure however if it will disappear completely, at least not until Porsche (successfully) races the new engine.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    KresoF1:

    I think that new GT3 is awsome sportscar. To repeat again AWSOME. For the first time I am thinking very hard indeed about buying new GT3. So, Porsche did great job, at least IMO. New 991 Turbo will be awsome as well. As fast on the Ring as new GT3(both below 7.30min and do not be supriesed at all IF HvS achieve below 7.30min in new GT3) and with all goodies.

    New GT3 is a true GT3 in its core. Some still have doubts? Well, time will tell that I was right from the start.

    Maybe you misunderstood me. I have the very same opinion here, I just wanted two more seats in the back. Smiley

    The new GT3 will be the best selling GT3 ever in my opinion but the new technology will also attract a lot of criticism, especially among die hard GT3 lovers and track racing amateurs. In the end, they will experience the superb track times the new GT3 achieves, so at some point, the criticism may tone down a little bit. Not sure however if it will disappear completely, at least not until Porsche (successfully) races the new engine.

    No, I did not misunderstud you. I wasn't refering to you but to members of Group 1 & 2. This is the problem when English is my third language...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    So when do you order your GT3? indecision

    My dealer has saved me a spot...just in case. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I do not race my car RC. I take it to the track, squeeze off 50-60 laps and take it home! If I had a 997.1 I would not have to pay $10000 every 2 years for new hubs. I now do...

    When something is updated, ie 5 lug to CL, the later must be equal or better than the system it supersedes... Clearly it is not.

    Had a maintenance schedule existed 3 years ago and I bought the car knowing this, I'd happily wear the costs. Its unjust to have to wear these costs now because Porsche F'ed up and won't spend some $$$ to resolve their issue...

    The point I was trying to make with the cup car is that even their hubs have 100 hours of life in them before they time out and they are used in a far harsher environment, 5 lugs on street cars are for life of the car and street CL for 40-50 hours... Technology has gone backwards...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The 4 seats GT3 is called 911 GTS these days... no wing, 4 seats and a better engine...

    Porsche is just trying to place each product better. C2S -> C4S -> GTS -> GT3 -> GT3RS -> etc...



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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Just read the specs, very nice and impressive numbers but personally not what I expect from a GT3. This car is heavier than a Carrera S, wtf!!!

    judging by the specs, it will be an amazing drive but in its philosophy, it's more a Carrera S plus than a GT3. 

    Porsche still has the RS to deliver us a proper road racer. Here's to hoping. 500 hp, less weight than a Carrera (of course!) stripped out interior and a single clutch sequential gearbox (in my dreams...)

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    So when do you order your GT3? indecision

    My dealer has saved me a spot...just in case. 

    IF I get the approval from my wife then I will order it after I get back from my trip to France and Germany. Early April I guess... BUT, maybe new 991 Turbo S is a better choice. Info from my P source about it is mind blowing...SmileySmiley

    Your P dealer loves you...Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Futch:

    Just read the specs, very nice and impressive numbers but personally not what I expect from a GT3. This car is heavier than a Carrera S, wtf!!!

    judging by the specs, it will be an amazing drive but in its philosophy, it's more a Carrera S plus than a GT3. 

    Porsche still has the RS to deliver us a proper road racer. Here's to hoping. 500 hp, less weight than a Carrera (of course!) stripped out interior and a single clutch sequential gearbox (in my dreams...)

     

     

    Days of sequential manuals in road sportscars are over.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    I do not race my car RC. I take it to the track, squeeze off 50-60 laps and take it home! If I had a 997.1 I would not have to pay $10000 every 2 years for new hubs. I now do...

    Here's the deal: I don't have Porsche's latest warranty regulations at hand but I found something very nice from the US.

    Abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use or other events beyond the control of Porsche Cars N.A.

    If you use your car on the track, the warranty is gone. You'd be surprised to learn that the same regulation is valid for Porsche's race cars.

    Or to use the words of a friend who loves track racing: You love your hobby, you pay. Including accidents (which are not covered by any insurance), technical defects or tires/rims (you should see his rims...oh boy).

    I know you don't like me telling that and I know that Porsche suggests in their ads that their cars are track racing "proof" but the truth is...they are street cars. Very fine street cars. If you track race them or "just" do 50-60 laps, you are on your own. That simple.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Futch:

    Just read the specs, very nice and impressive numbers but personally not what I expect from a GT3. This car is heavier than a Carrera S, wtf!!!

    judging by the specs, it will be an amazing drive but in its philosophy, it's more a Carrera S plus than a GT3. 

    Porsche still has the RS to deliver us a proper road racer. Here's to hoping. 500 hp, less weight than a Carrera (of course!) stripped out interior and a single clutch sequential gearbox (in my dreams...)

     

     

    You are a different kind of customer, F. Smiley You also have different cars in your garage, so it is easy for you to demand something more special but 90% of the GT3 drivers I know don't have even 10% of your driving skills for that matter, so the comparison would be pretty difficult. I understand you very well, in your situation, the GT3 wouldn't satisfy me either but for the averagely skilled Porsche driver who wants to have some fun, incl. some laps on the track, the GT3 is just perfect. This is no race car and I have a friend who had a law suit with Porsche regarding his GT3 gearbox and he...lost. He used the car on the track (well, actually he raced it but thats a different story Smiley) and Porsche wasn't willing to pay for the repair. OK, they also claimed he over revved the engine a couple of times but the truth is, the track racing was the problem.

    If my wife would give her OK, I would get the GT3 in a second but it isn't very likely since I wouldn't be able to take her and the kids with me in such a car. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    I do not race my car RC. I take it to the track, squeeze off 50-60 laps and take it home! If I had a 997.1 I would not have to pay $10000 every 2 years for new hubs. I now do...

    Here's the deal: I don't have Porsche's latest warranty regulations at hand but I found something very nice from the US.

    Abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use or other events beyond the control of Porsche Cars N.A.

    If you use your car on the track, the warranty is gone. You'd be surprised to learn that the same regulation is valid for Porsche's race cars.

    Or to use the words of a friend who loves track racing: You love your hobby, you pay. Including accidents (which are not covered by any insurance), technical defects or tires/rims (you should see his rims...oh boy).

    I know you don't like me telling that and I know that Porsche suggests in their ads that their cars are track racing "proof" but the truth is...they are street cars. Very fine street cars. If you track race them or "just" do 50-60 laps, you are on your own. That simple.

    I'm well aware of Porsche's stance on track use and here they are more leanient in any case but this has nothing to do with warranty.

    The facts are simple and indisputable: If the cars were left alone and fitted with 5 lugs, wheels would NOT fall off. We are given CLs against our will because its the latest technology and they fall off!

    If it ain't broken, don't fix it. They tried to fix something that wasn't broken and the f'ed it up BIG TIME. Thats the indisputable fact... Warranty doesn't concern me. Their lack of interest to stand behind their product and sort it out does however...Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    If it ain't broken, don't fix it. They tried to fix something that wasn't broken and the f'ed it up BIG TIME. Thats the indisputable fact... Warranty doesn't concern me. They lack of interest to stand behind their product and sort it out does however...Smiley

    Sounds more like a dealer than Porsche. Just saying... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    A dealer doesn't decide to time out hubs every 7000km because they don't want to hurt their bottom line by re-engineering and recalling all CL cars once and for all. PAG decided that! The dealership completely disagrees with Porsche's stance on this issue but as you well know, they aren't in a position to make decisions...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Futch:

    Just read the specs, very nice and impressive numbers but personally not what I expect from a GT3. This car is heavier than a Carrera S, wtf!!!

    judging by the specs, it will be an amazing drive but in its philosophy, it's more a Carrera S plus than a GT3. 

    Porsche still has the RS to deliver us a proper road racer. Here's to hoping. 500 hp, less weight than a Carrera (of course!) stripped out interior and a single clutch sequential gearbox (in my dreams...)

     

     

    You are a different kind of customer, F. Smiley You also have different cars in your garage, so it is easy for you to demand something more special but 90% of the GT3 drivers I know don't have even 10% of your driving skills for that matter, so the comparison would be pretty difficult. I understand you very well, in your situation, the GT3 wouldn't satisfy me either but for the averagely skilled Porsche driver who wants to have some fun, incl. some laps on the track, the GT3 is just perfect. This is no race car and I have a friend who had a law suit with Porsche regarding his GT3 gearbox and he...lost. He used the car on the track (well, actually he raced it but thats a different story Smiley) and Porsche wasn't willing to pay for the repair. OK, they also claimed he over revved the engine a couple of times but the truth is, the track racing was the problem.

    If my wife would give her OK, I would get the GT3 in a second but it isn't very likely since I wouldn't be able to take her and the kids with me in such a car. Smiley

    You are 100% right RC. If I could only have one or two sports cars, the 991 GT3 would be very high on my list indeed. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:
    Futch:

    Just read the specs, very nice and impressive numbers but personally not what I expect from a GT3. This car is heavier than a Carrera S, wtf!!!

    judging by the specs, it will be an amazing drive but in its philosophy, it's more a Carrera S plus than a GT3. 

    Porsche still has the RS to deliver us a proper road racer. Here's to hoping. 500 hp, less weight than a Carrera (of course!) stripped out interior and a single clutch sequential gearbox (in my dreams...)

     

     

    Days of sequential manuals in road sportscars are over.

    Yes you're right sadly. 

    It will be missed, the scuderia was by no mean perfect but god that gearbox was awesome when driven hard. For me today the master of DSG remains Ferrari followed by BMW, they're both instant with that little artificial kick that brings a little bit of theatre. I drove a 991 pdk recently and although an improvement on the 997, I still find it slow on upshift between the moment you press the paddle and the moment it shifts. In the 997 turbo S it was awful. Downshifts however are perfect. I hope they've addressed that in the GT3. 

    I can understand why some brands still chose a single clutch like the aventador or the pagani. Not as smooth in everyday driving but clients must love that violence on every upshift, and its lighter. 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    A dealer doesn't decide to time out hubs every 7000km because they don't want to hurt their bottom line by re-engineering and recalling all CL cars once and for all. PAG decided that! The dealership completely disagrees with Porsche's stance on this issue but as you well know, they aren't in a position to make decisions...

    Again...the car isn't made for racing, so if you drive your car on the street or do some (50-60 certainly don't qualify) laps on the track, there is no issue. The Porsche dealership disagrees with Porsche stance because they know they aren't in any position to do anything against it but trust me, if the dealer would be honest, he would tell it right into your face what he thinks: Next time, get a race car. Smiley Expensive hobby...this is why I gave up track racing a long time ago, just doing the occasional 5-10 laps (short tracks at around 3-4 km length) here and then if the occasion occurs at some event but thats it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Maybe Porsche should give 4-seat option for the 918 as well?? Or make a GT3 Cab?? Why not?!?! Or perhaps Porsche should offer a "LEGO" system for the 911?? Then everyone will just pick a body, engine, wing/no wing..... In this case there is no sense to offer so many types of 911. Who wants a GT3 without a GT3 look, with 4 seats, as a family sports car, can pick a GTS or a Turbo?? It must be a GT3 engine??? C'mon, give me a break we don't even know what this engine is. I think Porsche offers enough 911 for everyone needs.

    Anyone can imagine a GT3 with this thing inside??? What is this, a joke??

    zoom.jpg


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Well we may as well all go and buy Toyota Priuses by your theory and save the planet. Why spend GT3 money on a car marketed for track use if it can't lap a track? Why are we even arguing about whether manual or pdk are faster? you can only do 100km/h with either on a highway?

    You are entitled to your opinion and to ignore the reality that these cars are marketed and equiped for track use. Till this latest release, all GT cars have shared drivetrains, much suspension etc with their cup car siblings so your suggestion that they are not capable of lapping a track are far from factual. In fact they raced an RS in the NBR 24 in 2010 and came mid field in their class against race cars including many cup car teams, It ran continuously for 24 hours which invalidates all your arguements conclusively!!! Regretfully they probably didn't do 7000km in that time frame to show the world how gracefully their car loses a wheel...

    A further fact is that with a wheel fixing system that works (eg. 5 lug) these cars could do 100 laps without a sweat... Shame Porsche wasn't able to leave functionality before gimmicks... Each to their own but at least those considering a CL car are now better informed about what they are getting themselves into if they plan to track dispite dismissive statements to excuse an inconsiderate and arrogant manufacturer, too proud to concede wrong doing...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    Well we may as well all go and buy Toyota Priuses by your theory and save the planet. Why spend GT3 money on a car marketed for track use if it can't lap a track? Why are we even arguing about whether manual or pdk are faster? you can only do 100km/h with either on a highway?

    You are entitled to your opinion and ignore the reality that these cars are marketed and equiped for track use. Till this latest release, all GT cars have shared drivetrains, much suspension etc with their cup car siblings so your suggestion that they are not capable of lapping a track are far from factual. In fact they raced an RS in the NBR 24 in 2010 and came mid field in their class against race cars including many cup car teams, It ran continuously for 24 hours which invalidates all your arguements conclusively!!! Regretfully they probably didn't do 7000km in that time frame to show the world how gracefully their car loses a wheel...

    A further fact is that with a wheel fixing system that works (eg. 5 lug) these cars could do 100 laps without a sweat... Shame Porsche wasn't able to leave functionality before gimmicks... Each to their own but at least those considering a CL car are now better informed about what they are getting themselves into if they plan to track dispite dismissive statements to excuse an inconsiderate and arrogant manufacturer, too proud to concede wrong doing...

     

    Well...illusion and reality, two pair of shoes. Smiley Which reminds me of the illusion many PCCB owners had in the beginning, when they thought this would be the perfect brake system for the track... Smiley

    I don't blame Porsche, they build street cars. It is very unfortunate that under certain circumstances, the cars aren't perfect but again...we are talking about street cars.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:

    Maybe Porsche should give 4-seat option for the 918 as well?? Or make a GT3 Cab?? Why not?!?! Or perhaps Porsche should offer a "LEGO" system for the 911?? Then everyone will just pick a body, engine, wing/no wing..... In this case there is no sense to offer so many types of 911. Who wants a GT3 without a GT3 look, with 4 seats, as a family sports car, can pick a GTS or a Turbo?? It must be a GT3 engine??? C'mon, give me a break we don't even know what this engine is. I think Porsche offers enough 911 for everyone needs.

    Anyone can imagine a GT3 with this thing inside??? What is this, a joke??

    zoom.jpg


    --

    Well...you'd be surprised...

    Why is that a bad thing? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:
    RC:
    911rox:
    RC:

    2. I doubt that Porsche would be dumb enough to put their reputation on the line for some easy cost saving.

    Ummmm, they already have with us 997.2 owners. The gave us CLs preaching the motorsport theme, AP told us how they were lighter and would be faster to change and now that they have been proven wrong and wheels are flying all over youtube, their solution to protect their bottom line is that they'll pass the cost of replacement onto customers every 7000kms. Obviously the latest wheel fixing technology was not better then the former. And they obviously don't care enough about their reputation to right their wrong and keep their customers safe.

    And you're sure this won't be the case with the new motor, pdk, rear steering or CLs for that matter? Really?

    I would not be believing blindly in Porsche doing right by customers in this day and age wen VW whom own and control them have big loans to pay and money to make...Smiley

    The CL issues have been (re)solved, not sure why you mention it again. Porsche STREET CARS are not for racing and it isn't Porsche faults that some people apparently use modded street cars for racing. There is a difference between track fun and racing. Actually racing is not permitted according to Porsche's warranty regulations.

    In my opinion, Porsche keeps customers safe but of course we could discuss this all day long. My experience with them has been pretty good so far.

    As to VW's ownership, you are wrong. I don't understand why so many people, especially outside Germany, view VW's involvement with Porsche with so much discomfort? Smiley VW is actually a quality brand over here, I know their reputation in other parts of the world isn't that great but people are wrong. 

    RC, the Porsche marketing machine has led you to believe that the issue is resolved. You obviously don't own a CL car. You certainly don't know the facts... So I will school all you guys looking to buy a CL car so you can't say you didn't know.

    Firstly, the Porsche marketing and propaganda:

    -CL are motorsport derived

    - they are lighter than the traditional 5 lug system

    - they allow for faster wheel changes

    - all CL issues were resolved after Porsche replaced a few hundred suspect sets on early GT3s

    These were all claims made by AP in his 2010 GT3 launch, marketing or facts?

    The FACTS:

    - CLs are motorsport derived yes but the particular system they've adopted for street cars can't even withstand track use.

    -they are in fact heavier than the 5 lug system and in fact the wheels require extra strengthening and are therefore heavier too

    - wheel changes require a PhD in wheel changing, advanced disassembly, greasing and re-assembly to have a chance of getting to the required torque correctly. They are not faster to swap and can't be fitted with pneumatic tools.

    Furthermore:

    - all previous GT cars and even all other Porsches with 5 lug systems do NOT have a maintenance schedule for their hubs. All centrelock cars now do as of THREE MONTHS ago...

    - Porsche conceded after 3 long years that there is an issue although they will not admit it. The early GT3 were fitted with a weaker hub and were recalled to have the latest part fitted.

    - Three years ago when these cars were released to market, they were required to be torqued to 500Nm. 6 months later it was identified they were coming loose at the track and this was increased to 600Nm. Damaged components were replaced/

    - Three years on and after more than a dozen cars have lost a left rear wheel, they final recall to put "the stronger RS" hubs on these cars. Most of these cars were in the hands of regular guys like all of us, not modified street racing cars as you put it...

    - At that point it is decided that these "strong hubs" are now only good for 7000 track kms rather than than for life as per the previous system. Rather than redesign and recall ALL cars to fit a new hub that doesn't fail, Porsche have passed the buck onto customers stating that they must replace hubs per a newly set schedule or expect possible wheel losses.

    - Customers are now expected to pay between US$4000 and $10000 every 7000 track kms (or 40-50hr use) to replace hubs, bolts, bearings and uprights or risk a wheel loss resulting in a totalled vehicle or loss of life. A cup car doesn't even have this stringent a schedule and it is being raced, abused and having wheels zapped on and off with rattle guns!!! Does this sound like a resolved CL issue to you? Does this sound like a company standing behind newly adopted technology? Does this sound like an acceptable solution to a problem Porsche created and 3 years on, customers are expected to foot the bill? If the new wheel fixing system wasn't better than the old system in EVERY way, it shouldn't be standard fitment on the most tracked cars in their range, FULL STOP.

    - A responsible company would redesign the hubs out of stronger material and thicken them up and then recall all vehicles to update and resolve a life threatening issue. Instead there are about 5000 ticking time bombs circling streets and tracks. Best to do your homework if you plan on buying a CL equiped car that you hope to visit the track with... And you guys want to put faith in Porsche to deliver and stand by a car with a new engine, pdk, CLs and rear steering? Best of luck! Consider yourselves now informed about the facts with the ONGOING CL saga....Smiley

    Very insightful post IMO, and I tend to agree, although I'm just a spectator in this.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:
    Anyone can imagine a GT3 with this thing inside??? What is this, a joke??

    zoom.jpg


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    Where there is a will...... lots of GT3/2 owners get the extra seats and belts fitted, depends how keen you are 

    Smiley


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    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    SportCarGroup:

    Maybe Porsche should give 4-seat option for the 918 as well?? Or make a GT3 Cab?? Why not?!?! Or perhaps Porsche should offer a "LEGO" system for the 911?? Then everyone will just pick a body, engine, wing/no wing..... In this case there is no sense to offer so many types of 911. Who wants a GT3 without a GT3 look, with 4 seats, as a family sports car, can pick a GTS or a Turbo?? It must be a GT3 engine??? C'mon, give me a break we don't even know what this engine is. I think Porsche offers enough 911 for everyone needs.

    Anyone can imagine a GT3 with this thing inside??? What is this, a joke??

    zoom.jpg


    --

    Well...you'd be surprised...

    Why is that a bad thing? Smiley

    Because after all, GT3 is a sports car. When I drive with a baby in a car, I don't drive like I like to drive, I drive as I should because of double safety reason. When I drive such a car as GT3, I want be able to drive it like GT3 should be driven.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    Well we may as well all go and buy Toyota Priuses by your theory and save the planet. Why spend GT3 money on a car marketed for track use if it can't lap a track? Why are we even arguing about whether manual or pdk are faster? you can only do 100km/h with either on a highway?

    You are entitled to your opinion and ignore the reality that these cars are marketed and equiped for track use. Till this latest release, all GT cars have shared drivetrains, much suspension etc with their cup car siblings so your suggestion that they are not capable of lapping a track are far from factual. In fact they raced an RS in the NBR 24 in 2010 and came mid field in their class against race cars including many cup car teams, It ran continuously for 24 hours which invalidates all your arguements conclusively!!! Regretfully they probably didn't do 7000km in that time frame to show the world how gracefully their car loses a wheel...

    A further fact is that with a wheel fixing system that works (eg. 5 lug) these cars could do 100 laps without a sweat... Shame Porsche wasn't able to leave functionality before gimmicks... Each to their own but at least those considering a CL car are now better informed about what they are getting themselves into if they plan to track dispite dismissive statements to excuse an inconsiderate and arrogant manufacturer, too proud to concede wrong doing...

     

    Well...illusion and reality, two pair of shoes. Smiley Which reminds me of the illusion many PCCB owners had in the beginning, when they thought this would be the perfect brake system for the track... Smiley

    I don't blame Porsche, they build street cars. It is very unfortunate that under certain circumstances, the cars aren't perfect but again...we are talking about street cars.

    YES!!! Illusion and reality!!!

    Like the illusion that they can't race or even do 50 laps of a short track yet the reality that  on more than one occasion, teams running 997.2 GT3s and the factory RS team lapped the NBR for 24 long, hard hours at full pace on racing slicks reaching speeds in excess of 280km/h? Oh yes, I get it know! Thanks! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ps. What were Porsche trying to prove by entering the NBR 24hr if they are "just street cars"? Hmmmmm.... Food for thought...I'll ponder this as I prepare to call it a night and sleep... Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    ps. What were Porsche trying to prove by entering the NBR 24hr if they are "just street cars"? Hmmmmm.... Food for thought...I'll ponder this as I prepare to call it a night and sleep... :)

    Porsche also builds race cars...they cost a little bit more money and are usually not street legal. If you need one, I can help you through a Porsche Motorsport contact. Just saying...

    C'mon, you get what I am trying to say but you are p.ss.d because of your CL issues. I get it but you also need to understand Porsche's side of the story. This doesn't mean they build bad cars or that they don't care about customers.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:
    Because after all, GT3 is a sports car. When I drive with a baby in a car, I don't drive like I like to drive, I drive as I should because of double safety reason. When I drive such a car as GT3, I want be able to drive it like GT3 should be driven.

    So what? The 911 Turbo is also a sports car, so is the 911 Carrera. No more kids in these cars? Smiley

    The GT3 is the illusion of a race car, this is what makes is so special. It feels special, it is fast and it is probably more fun to drive than other Porsche 911 models but you can still use it as a daily driver and...take a kid with you. I see no problem with that. On public streets, unless we are talking Autobahn here, there is no real possibility to do excessive speeds and otherwise, well...I think that a kid would be more safe with me in a GT3 than with my wife in a SUV. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Kreso F1.

    pls comment what does mean "next 991 turbo s will be mind-blowing"

    give me pls some hints. Because I have a tough choice - to buy new GT3 or wait for new Turbo S...

    your hints may help a lot - thanks


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    ps. What were Porsche trying to prove by entering the NBR 24hr if they are "just street cars"? Hmmmmm.... Food for thought...I'll ponder this as I prepare to call it a night and sleep... :)

    Porsche also builds race cars...they cost a little bit more money and are usually not street legal. If you need one, I can help you through a Porsche Motorsport contact. Just saying...

    C'mon, you get what I am trying to say but you are p.ss.d because of your CL issues. I get it but you also need to understand Porsche's side of the story. This doesn't mean they build bad cars or that they don't care about customers.

    But the fact of the matter is, Porsche raced a 'streetcar' in the Nürburgring 24hrs, exactly to promote its track-credentials. For you to then state that people shouldn't race their GT3's because they're essentially streetcars is contradicting exactly what Porsche was trying to promote. Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    artur777:

    Kreso F1.

    pls comment what does mean "next 991 turbo s will be mind-blowing"

    give me pls some hints. Because I have a tough choice - to buy new GT3 or wait for new Turbo S...

    your hints may help a lot - thanks

    Don't even go there. You can't compare both.

    The new 991 Turbo (let alone the S) will be an acceleration monster with amazing traction. So if you are looking to win red light races, this is it, there shouldn't be anything better on the market when it will come out. Same goes to Autobahn performance, the 0-200 kph time should be around 10 seconds (for the regular Turbo).

    If driving "as if you sit in a race car" is more of your style, then the GT3 is the right model. It is also the perfect track fun car because of the sportier chassis setup and lower weight. The GT3 has a more direct steering, the PDK is less comfortable but faster and the comfort is limited due to the harsher ride and of course the louder exhaust/engine note. People would say that the GT3 is more involving, it ticks your senses more than the Turbo but of course a skilled driver could be faster in the Turbo.

    I really don't think you can compare both, two different toys.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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