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    Re: Tesla

    If they keep this up, Tesla will become the company that gave autopilot a bad name. Any autopilot like tech.


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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Tesla

    Pentium:

    If they keep this up, Tesla will become the company that gave autopilot a bad name. Any autopilot like tech.

    Could happen, indeed. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Pentium:

    If they keep this up, Tesla will become the company that gave autopilot a bad name. Any autopilot like tech.

    Could happen, indeed. Smiley

    You guys are kinda missing the boat. People are still part of the process. Even once perfect - guess what - people will still run into Teslas and there will always be accidents. Do you really want progress to stop?  Just look at the number of lives saved vs the tiny numbers everyone shouts about.  Is there maybe something else going on?  This fake outrage about the name of the system is a good indication objective reality has taken leave. 

    Perhaps there is an entire Industry under threat of huge competition and there will be people with a narrative designed to benefit one side or the other.  Keep an eye on what makes sense and what is BS.  We have been watching auto politics for some time now without realizing it can be just as dirty as the real thing.  Funny to see see the similarities once you look for them.  
    One thing I can tell you for certain - after 20k miles in the Tesla driving a normal car feels like walking on a high wire without a net for no good reason.  When I read that Tesla is doing something dangerous (by comparison) I hear 2+2=5 shouted at me. 


    Re: Tesla

    The problem is not Tesla per se as a brand but what Tesla stands for in the minds of many people: EV pioneer and...autopilot (aka autonomous driving in their minds) pioneer. Perception is the issue here and while Tesla was playing this card over and over again to differentiate themselves from the competition, this time, this could be a problem for them.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:

    The problem is not Tesla per se as a brand but what Tesla stands for in the minds of many people: EV pioneer and...autopilot (aka autonomous driving in their minds) pioneer. Perception is the issue here and while Tesla was playing this card over and over again to differentiate themselves from the competition, this time, this could be a problem for them.

    The psyc major in me (I’m a major academic underachiever) is fascinated by how these perceptions in people’s minds are planted and how I can better control the weeds in my brain. Lol 

    Do keep in mind that those who are behind have historically had a bad habit of slowing things down and calling out progress as witchcraft. Watch for this and imagine if a traditional automaker had the same system?  Hmmmm.


    Re: Tesla

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  

    A doctor? Smiley Was he drunk? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  

    A doctor? Smiley Was he drunk? Smiley

    It was late on Saturday evening so that's always a possibility.  However, he had probably tried this before in that car since it was a 2019 Model S and its doubtful that he had just purchased it.  Safety systems that are easily defeated and erratic development cycles that rely on the end user as beta tester will come back to haunt Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  

    Oh dear, a highly intelligent medical professional scientist Smiley Someone punched a hole in that balloon.

    My condolences to family and friends. Tragic.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood, you are one of a very small group of owners that realizes Elon lied about the Autopilot naming and it's not actually autopilot but a cruise control that needs human supervision, you used it correctly despite the horrible naming.

    Hundreds of thousands of other person aren't smart enough to realize that, and they used it wrong simply because of the name of the cruise control system. And they crashed. and burn.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    bluelines:
    CGX car nut:

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  

    Oh dear, a highly intelligent medical professional scientist Smiley Someone punched a hole in that balloon.

    My condolences to family and friends. Tragic.

    I would have thought you would know by now the difference between being intelligent and being wise, explains why some arguably intelligent people sometimes make the decisions they make or take the choices they take in life.


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Leawood, you are one of a very small group of owners that realizes Elon lied about the Autopilot naming and it's not actually autopilot but a cruise control that needs human supervision, you used it correctly despite the horrible naming.

    Hundreds of thousands of other person aren't smart enough to realize that, and they used it wrong simply because of the name of the cruise control system. And they crashed. and burn.

     

    I agree up to the point where you say he lied. This where you try to make him out to be a criminal which is nuts.  Do you perhaps suggest a murder charge?  Seriously, you lost me there.  There are plenty of warnings when you turn on the system to make you aware of its limits.  It is a marketing term and far more accurate than Turbo on a Taycan. We have had Cruise control for decades and everyone knows it’s limits.  You will not sell me on the lie or that the name is confusing and too confidence inspiring.  While we can beat that dead horse I would prefer to focus on substance and solutions as well as personal responsibility and not handicapping tech to make up for a tiny percentage of poor decision makers. Rest their soul. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
    bluelines:
    CGX car nut:

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  

    Oh dear, a highly intelligent medical professional scientist Smiley Someone punched a hole in that balloon.

    My condolences to family and friends. Tragic.

    I would have thought you would know by now the difference between being intelligent and being wise, explains why some arguably intelligent people sometimes make the decisions they make or take the choices they take in life.

    Smart people are not smart 100% of the time. Only takes a second.  Sad that they passed on in such an avoidable manner. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    RC:

    The problem is not Tesla per se as a brand but what Tesla stands for in the minds of many people: EV pioneer and...autopilot (aka autonomous driving in their minds) pioneer. Perception is the issue here and while Tesla was playing this card over and over again to differentiate themselves from the competition, this time, this could be a problem for them.

    The psyc major in me (I’m a major academic underachiever) is fascinated by how these perceptions in people’s minds are planted and how I can better control the weeds in my brain. Lol 

    Do keep in mind that those who are behind have historically had a bad habit of slowing things down and calling out progress as witchcraft. Watch for this and imagine if a traditional automaker had the same system?  Hmmmm.

    I'm pretty sure that it was Elon that planted this notion originally. I'm too lazy to do the research, but if I remember it correctly it was Tesla that marketed its cruise control system as "Autopilot" initially to differentiate itself from the competition. That notion stuck with the general public and also has been fuelled with grandiose claims about future feature releases over the years. So even though Tesla back-pedaled (probably because of legal concerns) and renamed it to indicate its current limits, many people still believe they have a proper Autopilot in their Tesla (that is just restrained because of government/ legal restrictions). The handful of Tesla owners (all no car guys) I know all refer to their cruise control as Autopilot - I wonder why? 


    Re: Tesla

    You are extremely correct Tim. Even up to this day, I believe Elon still saying perfect Autopilot is coming, even when their stock filings says it can never be done. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
    bluelines:
    CGX car nut:

    Texas Tesla non-driver identified as 59 year old anesthesiologist: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9491029/Tesla-crash-victim-named-59-year-old-doctor-driving-friend.html  Guess he wasn't as intelligent as he thought he was moments before striking a tree near his home.  This should prove an interesting trial to watch as it unfolds.  

    Oh dear, a highly intelligent medical professional scientist Smiley Someone punched a hole in that balloon.

    My condolences to family and friends. Tragic.

    I would have thought you would know by now the difference between being intelligent and being wise, explains why some arguably intelligent people sometimes make the decisions they make or take the choices they take in life.

    Smiley We have a few very good examples here in the forum and in real life. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)



    Re: Tesla

    Consumer Reports provides video evidence that a Tesla can engage Autopilot without a driver in the driver’s seat.  https://insideevs.com/news/502946/consumer-reports-autopilot-no-driver/. This is a gross failure of safeguards within the basic architecture of the Autopilot system; it is deficient.  Lawyers will have a field day with this evidence. 


    Re: Tesla

    So news report indicate that each and every car with cruise control will keep running with a driver out of the drivers seat.    Stupid is universal and hard to engineer out  

    Only a Tesla, if you turn on autopilot, will have a chance of not crashing. A pretty darn good one from the looks of it. Those guys are alive. Let them try this with another car.  Lol. 
     

    You really want all of us consumers to be limited to pillows and rubber gloves while wearing helmets at the dinner table?  Ridiculous.  In search of victims that don’t exist. The search continues for idiots behind the wheels of cars. For some it’s big news. 
    Of all the fake news to get excited about. Yawn 🥱 

    Nick - as a lawyer chime in here. I won’t ever be offended 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Consumer Reports provides video evidence that a Tesla can engage Autopilot without a driver in the driver’s seat.  https://insideevs.com/news/502946/consumer-reports-autopilot-no-driver/. This is a gross failure of safeguards within the basic architecture of the Autopilot system; it is deficient.  Lawyers will have a field day with this evidence. 

    They buckled the seat belt and looped a chain through the steering wheel.  Not exactly a gross failure.  Teslas aren't perfect and Elon is a huge tool, but you and Leawood should just have a cage match to end this already.


    Re: Tesla

    waiting for PDK:
    CGX car nut:

    Consumer Reports provides video evidence that a Tesla can engage Autopilot without a driver in the driver’s seat.  https://insideevs.com/news/502946/consumer-reports-autopilot-no-driver/. This is a gross failure of safeguards within the basic architecture of the Autopilot system; it is deficient.  Lawyers will have a field day with this evidence. 

    They buckled the seat belt and looped a chain through the steering wheel.  Not exactly a gross failure.  Teslas aren't perfect and Elon is a huge tool, but you and Leawood should just have a cage match to end this already.

    No - this is how I amuse myself 


    Re: Tesla

    Your animus blinds you.  The Tesla steering wheel hack with weights is well documented over the years.  See the attacked link from Tesla Motor Club on the subject: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/autopilot-steering-wheel-hack.108331/page-10  Amazon has multiple vendors supplying similar devices designed to fool the simple Tesla steering wheel torque sensor to indicate that a driver has their hand on the steering wheel.

    What the Consumer Report video documents is how Tesla Autopilot is engaged at zero mph and without a driver in the driver's seat.  This hack too is common knowledge within the Tesla community and YouTube has multiple videos of similar demonstrations.  

    Tesla is fully aware of all the approaches used to circumvent its primitive safety system yet the company has taken little to no action to resolve the problem.  General Motors, for example, with the Cadillac Super Cruise sets the bar on what is possible using current state of the art technologies.  Super Cruise relies on a series of interlocking safety systems including capacitance sensors embedded in the steering wheel to a camera monitoring driver alertness to geofencing that limits the use of Super Cruise to a defined number of limited access roads.  If the driver's attention is diverted, the Super Cruise system begins to sound an alarm and take corrective actions within 5 to 10 seconds.  The Tesla system has no similar function beyond the easily defeat steering wheel torque sensor. 

    Before you cite an incident in Florida where a 70 year old driver was standing through the sunroof of his Cadillac while cruising down the road, that car was under normal adaptive cruise control, not Super Cruise.  

    Tesla so far has exploited the legal environment since Autopilot is defined as a SAE Level 2 where Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Systems("FMVSS") have not mandated or regulated any particular advanced driver assistance system ("ADAS").  However, a high profile law suit against the automaker may just change that issue and this could be just that case.  A skilled legal team can readily show 1) the safety deficiencies of the Tesla Autopilot system when compared with its peers, i.e., Cadillac's Super Cruise, and 2) Tesla's negligence in addressing said known safety deficiencies over the years.  

      


    Re: Tesla

    Your are funny and predictable. Such big words to form your leading insult. Again you neglect how all other cars have much less sophisticated cruise control and we don’t engineer for all levels of stupid. 
    super cruise. What a joke. Once you buy the hugest spec car and then pay extra plus $25 per month you get a get fenced lane bouncer that watches your eyes rather than just the road.  Do you know how silly it is to prefer that solution to the Tesla one?  Science much?  I guess they heard about Tesla upcoming subscription service for full self driving but the totally missed that autopilot is free on even the base model. Included. Works anywhere there are lane markings. Lol 
     Why not let some common sense blind you. And no I don’t look for car accidents in the news from any automaker.  Why don’t you look at which brand is the safest brand and get back to me. Amazing that this brand also go’s really fast. 
     

    Btw I got tired of holding the Tesla wheel ages ago. I use a five pound ankle weight so I can choose where to rest my hands. oh the outrage that you can buys stuff online to make life easier. Don’t tell anyone.  How silly and little you sound at times. 
    The last thing I want is my car watching me - and yet I am adult enough to keep an eye on the road at all times.  I also know how to turn the water down in the shower so I can use the high flow shower head and not run out of water. 

    I suggest you don’t buy a Tesla. In fact I think there should be a no fly list of sorts for you and Tesla because you sound like you might get hurt in that car. 


    Re: Tesla

    Correction. One pound ankle weight. It’s my wife’s.  Happy Sunday. 


    Re: Tesla

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/companies/tesla-posts-record-net-income-of-dollar438-million-revenue-surges-by-74percent/ar-BB1g...

     

    $438 million profit for the quarter, but $518 million from selling credits, another $101 million from selling bitcoins. So in reality Tesla lost $181 million for the quarter. 

    10 years now, Tesla have yet to book a quarterly profit from selling cars. Every 'profitable' quarter was propped up by selling green credits. 

    The bitcoin purchase before was just a water tap for Elon to open whenever he needs some extra jolt to book his bonus. 

    Why is it so hard for Elon to figure out how to sell car for a profit? 🤔 The math isn't hard, sell a car at a price more than the cost.


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    Re: Tesla

    When the credits fade, so will TSLA. Nick I think you are absolutely correct.


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/companies/tesla-posts-record-net-income-of-dollar438-million-revenue-surges-by-74percent/ar-BB1g...

     

    $438 million profit for the quarter, but $518 million from selling credits, another $101 million from selling bitcoins. So in reality Tesla lost $181 million for the quarter. 

    10 years now, Tesla have yet to book a quarterly profit from selling cars. Every 'profitable' quarter was propped up by selling green credits. 

    The bitcoin purchase before was just a water tap for Elon to open whenever he needs some extra jolt to book his bonus. 

    Why is it so hard for Elon to figure out how to sell car for a profit? 🤔 The math isn't hard, sell a car at a price more than the cost.

    So in a sense, this makes Teslas great value for the money 


    Re: Tesla

    AP911:
    Whoopsy:

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/companies/tesla-posts-record-net-income-of-dollar438-million-revenue-surges-by-74percent/ar-BB1g...

     

    $438 million profit for the quarter, but $518 million from selling credits, another $101 million from selling bitcoins. So in reality Tesla lost $181 million for the quarter. 

    10 years now, Tesla have yet to book a quarterly profit from selling cars. Every 'profitable' quarter was propped up by selling green credits. 

    The bitcoin purchase before was just a water tap for Elon to open whenever he needs some extra jolt to book his bonus. 

    Why is it so hard for Elon to figure out how to sell car for a profit? 🤔 The math isn't hard, sell a car at a price more than the cost.

    So in a sense, this makes Teslas great value for the money 

    Whoopsy has allowed someone rent free into his head.  The worlds richest and busiest man is a failure. Of course. Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/companies/tesla-posts-record-net-income-of-dollar438-million-revenue-surges-by-74percent/ar-BB1g...

     

    $438 million profit for the quarter, but $518 million from selling credits, another $101 million from selling bitcoins. So in reality Tesla lost $181 million for the quarter. 

    10 years now, Tesla have yet to book a quarterly profit from selling cars. Every 'profitable' quarter was propped up by selling green credits. 

    The bitcoin purchase before was just a water tap for Elon to open whenever he needs some extra jolt to book his bonus. 

    Why is it so hard for Elon to figure out how to sell car for a profit? 🤔 The math isn't hard, sell a car at a price more than the cost.

    Call me crazy but I think there is some sorts of strategy behind the decision to sell the cars for "less". Remember? They were more expensive in the beginning and Tesla massively reduced prices. My guess: He wants to make it tough for the competition and I think that he may actually succeed...in a way. Time will tell. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/companies/tesla-posts-record-net-income-of-dollar438-million-revenue-surges-by-74percent/ar-BB1g...

     

    $438 million profit for the quarter, but $518 million from selling credits, another $101 million from selling bitcoins. So in reality Tesla lost $181 million for the quarter. 

    10 years now, Tesla have yet to book a quarterly profit from selling cars. Every 'profitable' quarter was propped up by selling green credits. 

    The bitcoin purchase before was just a water tap for Elon to open whenever he needs some extra jolt to book his bonus. 

    Why is it so hard for Elon to figure out how to sell car for a profit? 🤔 The math isn't hard, sell a car at a price more than the cost.

    Call me crazy but I think there is some sorts of strategy behind the decision to sell the cars for "less". Remember? They were more expensive in the beginning and Tesla massively reduced prices. My guess: He wants to make it tough for the competition and I think that he may actually succeed...in a way. Time will tell. 

    Might also want to consider that Tesla is building new factories and expanding all over the world. Not to mention the value of the company went up a bit in the past 12 months.  A focus on per unit profit at this point when there are other revenue streams is not wise. A focus on expansion and economies of scale together with cutting costs and reducing prices seems the smart play. It helps they don’t have tons of ICE inventory and a shit load of legacy ICE manufacturing capability. 
    Do you imagine VW would sell below cost if they had other revenue and they could afford to blow out the competition forever?  I wonder if this ever happened elsewhere (China perhaps - see US Steel)


     
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