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    Re: Octane skimping!

    Agree!

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    But if you insist, may I suggest Sam's Club motor oil??



    No need for that. Wally Mart has the Mobil 1 OW40 for $4.92 a quart or about $27 a case.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Just so you know. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    The more octane you get in your gas the more you are going to get the power that particular engine was designed to produce. Diminishing returns: using a higher octane than engine was designed for is a total waste.

    IOW, an engine requiring less octane is not going to produce MORE hp if you use higher octane gas.

    All that higher octane gas does is prevent knocking (pre-ignition) in higher-performance (higner compression ratio) engines.

    Now for the disclaimer:

    Our engines will change the ignition timing if they sense a lower octane fuel is being used.

    Again, lower octane means we won't get the HP they were designed to produce.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, prolonged lower octane use in our engines will not hurt the engines. I guess this is true because I don't remember the warrenty going void if it is used on a perm basis.

    Unless you want to save..., what..., $5 a month why bother? If you're at that level of economising, and you own these cars, you deserve less-than-maximum HP.



    In Britain saving up by using lower octane fuel is OK due to traffic (so you rarely can unleash the full potential of the engine whether it runs on low/high octane fuel). Also, living in Britain is so expensive (bills & tax) - people work hard to buy Porsches here, so I understand Porsche owners who are "economising". Also, some petrol stations in Britain don't even stock Ultra Unleaded (high octane fuel). Lower octane fuels may give less BHP but I believe it is a very small drop that does almost nothing to the car's performance.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    From what I gather so far, I don't think it would adversely affect the car. Maybe we're trained to think that, "oh it's a sports car I have to put the pricey stuff in." OK, who's going to volunteer their car for a test? If no one, I'll just check back when premium is $4 then $5 a gallon then...??



    It probably won't damage the motor with a tank of 87 because of the computers (it could on older cars), but the motor won't run as it's intended either. I believe that if you do this for extended periods of time, it will cause some damage simply because it's not running as well as it should with the fuel and ignition maps that it should which the engineers made so the car would have performance and longevity. Plus you'll lose significant hp using 87 or 89 instead of 91. Say your fuel costs are $3000 a year. If you save 10%, you'll save 300 bucks a year. But you wasted $10000 getting a carrera S instead of a carrera because you'd have carrera performance. Even if premium jumped to $10 a gallon, regular would be $9 and it still wouldn't make sense. Many mid 90s Porsches run significantly better on 93 octane. However, 93 octane is not in California to save costs. I'd gladly buy 93 if it made the car run better. Hopefully since California is such a large market, the current Porsches are tuned for 91 so it wouldn't matter that 93 isn't around, but if had a Porsche that ran better on 93, I'd be pissed that I couldn't pay more to get the octane the car was made to run on. Octane does matter and the cost difference is insignificant. This isn't a marketing ploy, it's engineering and science.

    In a simple example: my old BMW runs on 87. There are performance chips designed for 91 octane and they give me 10 more hp. It would be very silly to buy this chip and then use 87 because my car wouldn't make that extra 10 hp. It's the same thing with Porsche, except they come with this chip.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    if Premium gets to $5.00/gallon, then regular will still probably be $4.80/gallon. No big whoop.



    I can't wait! Imagine how much room there will be on the highways for us rich guys in Porsches!

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said: I can't believe so many folks snivel about the price of fuel. Those who cry the loudest are usually the so called environmentalists who don't want any new refineries built, etc.



    Au contraire, my good Porschephile. Those crying the loudest are those who are truly hurt the most: your gardner, your maid, your secretaries, receptionists, janitors, your laborers, your food pickers, etc., all those who work but earning close to minimum wage. Here in L.A. almost all of them must drive to work. I think this burden falls heaviest on those at the bottom of the economic ladder.

    For any of us who can afford a 997, complaining seems to me rather selfish.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    vtach88 said:
    These people you say are doing this and affecting the performance of their car will probably pay MUCH more per gallon on bottled water or Starbucks than tap water or home brewed coffee - Neither of which should affect their body's performance.....

    Talk about confusion



    Sounds like a variation of the classic "An orifice is an orifice; it's dark anyway; and the end-result is the same" argument that guys most typically use to rationalize awful taste in chicks....but I suppose the argument is adaptable to explain away most lifestyle choices...to each his own....

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    ArthurY said:
    Quote:
    SVNSVN said: I can't believe so many folks snivel about the price of fuel. Those who cry the loudest are usually the so called environmentalists who don't want any new refineries built, etc.



    Au contraire, my good Porschephile. Those crying the loudest are those who are truly hurt the most: your gardner, your maid, your secretaries, receptionists, janitors, your laborers, your food pickers, etc., all those who work but earning close to minimum wage. Here in L.A. almost all of them must drive to work. I think this burden falls heaviest on those at the bottom of the economic ladder.

    For any of us who can afford a 997, complaining seems to me rather selfish.



    True!
    Unfortunately, they're not being heard as loudly and as often (yet) as the "environmentalists" - otherwise we would very likely have more refineries!

    Sorry guys for going somewhat OT-just venting a bit. I'm a not so wealthy Porschephile.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Quote:
    ArthurY said:
    Quote:
    SVNSVN said: I can't believe so many folks snivel about the price of fuel. Those who cry the loudest are usually the so called environmentalists who don't want any new refineries built, etc.



    Au contraire, my good Porschephile. Those crying the loudest are those who are truly hurt the most: your gardner, your maid, your secretaries, receptionists, janitors, your laborers, your food pickers, etc., all those who work but earning close to minimum wage. Here in L.A. almost all of them must drive to work. I think this burden falls heaviest on those at the bottom of the economic ladder.

    For any of us who can afford a 997, complaining seems to me rather selfish.



    True!
    Unfortunately, they're not being heard as loudly and as often (yet) as the "environmentalists" - otherwise we would very likely have more refineries!

    Sorry guys for going somewhat OT-just venting a bit. I'm a not so wealthy Porschephile.



    I agree with you, Richard. But somehow, I doubt that they will be demanding to get more refineries to be built and more oil to be drilled.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    so are our cars in the UK significantly faster than those in the US? I thought Porsche recommend 98 octane which we can get here (at Shell as Ente said), even the regular stuff is 95.

    If you guys are using 91 or even 87.....? I'll be quicker in my 996???

    Re: Octane skimping!

    87/98 * 355 = 315 Bhp.... 5 less!!

    (OK, I'm sure the calculation isn't that straight forward, just messing around!)

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Given that most people that own these cars only drive them between 7500 and 15000 miles a year, or an average of 11250 miles/year. Which is an average of 216 miles/week. If you can only manage 20 MPG then that would be a weely usage of 10.8 gallons of gas (not even a full tank!). If the price difference is .28/gallon between regular and premium then the weekly cost difference to use premium gas is $3.03. This would seem like a very small price to pay to use the fuel that the engine was designed for and that will deliver the full engine performance that you paid for. If this $3.03 per week is to expensive, then you may need to think about the decision to buy an $80,000+ sports car!!!

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    Monkey said:
    so are our cars in the UK significantly faster than those in the US? I thought Porsche recommend 98 octane which we can get here (at Shell as Ente said), even the regular stuff is 95.

    If you guys are using 91 or even 87.....? I'll be quicker in my 996???


    Monkey - the octane numbers in Europe and USA are not calculated the same way. In the US, we use an average of RON (Research Octane Number) and some other number, where you guys just use just the higher number of the two. Our premium is roughly the same as your premium, AFAIK...

    Autobahn Octane Availability?

    What's the octane rating of premium (or..., what..., "super?") gas on the German Autobahn?

    Just for fun, tell us the price per gallon.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    AeroSmith said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    if Premium gets to $5.00/gallon, then regular will still probably be $4.80/gallon. No big whoop.



    I can't wait! Imagine how much room there will be on the highways for us rich guys in Porsches!



    I've always had a dream of having a Porsche only highway

    Re: Octane skimping!

    In the S manual, Porsche says that the engine is designed for 93 octane although it can function on less with dimished performance. In California the highest you can buy at the pump is 91 octane. How much torque are we loosing with 91 octane? Would octane boosters help noticeably?

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    csmiller said:
    In the S manual, Porsche says that the engine is designed for 93 octane although it can function on less with dimished performance. In California the highest you can buy at the pump is 91 octane. How much torque are we loosing with 91 octane? Would octane boosters help noticeably?



    Damn, it seems like Porsches are still overtuned for California. I think there are ways to search for 93 or 100 octane gas stations, they are rare, but I think a few are still around. Mix 100 with 91 (1:3 or 1:4 ratio) to get around 93 (92.8 or 93.25). I read something a while back about a boxster or 993 owner getting higher octane gas than 91 and it supposedly transformed the car.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    Yargk said:
    Quote:
    csmiller said:
    In the S manual, Porsche says that the engine is designed for 93 octane although it can function on less with dimished performance. In California the highest you can buy at the pump is 91 octane. How much torque are we loosing with 91 octane? Would octane boosters help noticeably?



    Damn, it seems like Porsches are still overtuned for California. I think there are ways to search for 93 or 100 octane gas stations, they are rare, but I think a few are still around. Mix 100 with 91 (1:3 or 1:4 ratio) to get around 93 (92.8 or 93.25). I read something a while back about a boxster or 993 owner getting higher octane gas than 91 and it supposedly transformed the car.



    I live in the SF Bay Area also and I know Infinion Raceway (Sears Point) sells 100 octane unleaded gas but are there any actual gas stations selling anything higher than 91? Rumor has it that some station located in Redwood city or Woodside was selling 100 octane but that was several years ago. All you need are a few gallons of the 100 octane gas mixed with 91 to reach 93 octane which will bring your engine to its full potential. I often wonder how much HP gets lost putting 91 octane gas vs 93? We don't have much choice here in California unfortunately.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    For all you UK guys whinging about your gas prices being so high - don't forget to factor in the cost for our US military going to war in Iraq.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    khansdad said:
    For all you UK guys whinging about your gas prices being so high - don't forget to factor in the cost for our US military going to war in Iraq.


    While ours stayed at home and made daisy chains you mean?
    Yeah right.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Couldnt agree more with wtsnet; I think that the British support for a US expedition in Iraq has been second to none despite what you may feel about the war itself, the grounds for starting it and the anarchy that now exists in that country as a result which will take many years to resolve.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Quote:
    khansdad said:
    For all you UK guys whinging about your gas prices being so high - don't forget to factor in the cost for our US military going to war in Iraq.


    While ours stayed at home and made daisy chains you mean?
    Yeah right.



    Khansdad, open mouth, insert foot....

    But please oh please, let's not get onto another World War III debate, it always results in me beating my forehead against the desk from all the tabloid make-believe politics.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    I'd second that...

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Jeez - you guys are so serious. I was making fun of our(US) current International Policy not your(UK) lack of participation in the war. If I was making fun of you guys it would be more like you guys really got the SHORT end of the stick - getting peer pressured into fighting someone else's stupid pre-emptive war with little or no benefit. I went to English schools growing up, I thought you guys were more educated than that! Too much of the population between our coasts vote based on faith and rhetoric rather than logic - whats your excuse?

    And on the LA thing - so true. I know people who live in tiny crap rented apartments but lease a 600 mercedes at the same time.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    khansdad said:
    Jeez - you guys are so serious. I was making fun of...


    Well, you should to make better use of smileys then! Try a next time. And blaming us for misinterpreting your post is a little insulting, thank you very much.

    And you STILL get cheaper gas than us! Not that I care of course. It just makes holidaying in the US/Canada more fun when you can hire a huge great SUV and it costs next to nothing to run.

    And I'm not getting sucked into another war debate!
    "Don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it." - Basil Fawlty.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    gradyex said:
    Quote:
    Yargk said:
    Quote:
    csmiller said:
    In the S manual, Porsche says that the engine is designed for 93 octane although it can function on less with dimished performance. In California the highest you can buy at the pump is 91 octane. How much torque are we loosing with 91 octane? Would octane boosters help noticeably?



    Damn, it seems like Porsches are still overtuned for California. I think there are ways to search for 93 or 100 octane gas stations, they are rare, but I think a few are still around. Mix 100 with 91 (1:3 or 1:4 ratio) to get around 93 (92.8 or 93.25). I read something a while back about a boxster or 993 owner getting higher octane gas than 91 and it supposedly transformed the car.



    I live in the SF Bay Area also and I know Infinion Raceway (Sears Point) sells 100 octane unleaded gas but are there any actual gas stations selling anything higher than 91? Rumor has it that some station located in Redwood city or Woodside was selling 100 octane but that was several years ago. All you need are a few gallons of the 100 octane gas mixed with 91 to reach 93 octane which will bring your engine to its full potential. I often wonder how much HP gets lost putting 91 octane gas vs 93? We don't have much choice here in California unfortunately.



    The King's Union 76 station at 975 Woodside Road has a single pump with 100 unleaded gas. I mix about 4 gallons in with the 91 when I fill up to get about 94 octane. The price of the 100 (~4.30/gallon) has stayed pretty constant while the 91 has been skyrocketing. You can find a blending chart at:

    http://www.rockettbrand.com/technicals/documents/BlendingCharts/91OctaneBlendingChart.pdf

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    Morphine said:
    I mix about 4 gallons in with the 91 when I fill up to get about 94 octane.



    Uuh, I just hope you're not working in the Napa valley in a wineyard.

    Re: Octane skimping!

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Quote:
    khansdad said:
    Jeez - you guys are so serious. I was making fun of...


    Well, you should to make better use of smileys then! Try a next time. And blaming us for misinterpreting your post is a little insulting, thank you very much.

    And you STILL get cheaper gas than us! Not that I care of course. It just makes holidaying in the US/Canada more fun when you can hire a huge great SUV and it costs next to nothing to run.

    And I'm not getting sucked into another war debate!
    "Don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it." - Basil Fawlty.



    "If it wasn't for us you'd be the smallest island in the German empire!"(or something like that) - Otto West (A fish called Wanda)

     
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