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    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Fantastic pictures Aldo ! Congrats !! 


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:
    MKSGR:

    Many congrats Smiley

    It seems you really like the car. Where do you see the major benefits/disadvantages compared to the GT3RS?

      GT3 RS 650 S
    engine power 500 hp 650 hp
    power delivery linear, under 5000 rpm the power delivery is poor explosive like 991 turbo, under 3000 rpm poor
    shifting feels more sportier, due to longer power interruption feels smoother, less power interruption
    sound more screaming, louder in high frequencies, not for long distance stronger, more lower frequencies, you can drive longer distance before anoying
    braking same same
    exteriour  more like race car more exotic
    interiour Porsche convetional more exotic, better carbon parts, lot of Alcantara
    handling very good did not test it 
    onboard communication old PCM IRIS not Audi or BMW but much better then PCM
    seating position Porsche like you are near the front axle, pretty cool position
    comfort driving bad very good
    sports driving very good very good

    I would say the brake feel is much better and precise in the Porsche, The seating position and cockpit view is far better in the McLaren as you say. Congratulations again SmileySmiley


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Brake feel and precision of the latest gen Porsche PCCB is amazing...

    The ceramic brake on my R8 V10 Plus is great but brake feel is a bit jittery and not precise, especially at lower speeds. This is something Porsche certainly does better... kiss


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    The brake feel of the GT3 RS is by far better then 650 s in lower speeds. Driving faster there is no difference. But as RC said low speed braking feeling of Porsche GT3 RS is excellent.

    I am still more confident with the GT3 RS on twisties here in Black Forrest. I need time to accept that the 650 s can do it the same on a different way (aero break, break steering and pcc) . I didn´t have any problems with the 650 s but when driving fast through twisty mountain roads I am not so confident as I was with the GT3 RS. Maybe I got used to much with rear axle steering.

     


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:

    The brake feel of the GT3 RS is by far better then 650 s in lower speeds. Driving faster there is no difference. But as RC said low speed braking feeling of Porsche GT3 RS is excellent.

    I am still more confident with the GT3 RS on twisties here in Black Forrest. I need time to accept that the 650 s can do it the same on a different way (aero break, break steering and pcc) . I didn´t have any problems with the 650 s but when driving fast through twisty mountain roads I am not so confident as I was with the GT3 RS. Maybe I got used to much with rear axle steering.

     

    It takes time to get used to the mid engine design and the turbo boost, just be careful and you get used to it. Smiley

    Did you guys have a nice time yesterday evening? Sorry that I couldn't come but KA isn't exactly around the corner. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    The seatposition in a 911 is far superior to any mid-engine "low down - wide car" feeling I previously had. I have posted this before - I would 100% agree with Aldo that you drive yr 911 faster than the Mac on a twisty road. Here I always felt more confident in a 911 than in the MP4,Supperleggera etc - simply because you can place the car much better because of visibility and size/width kiss On a track this advantange of course is not as important.....


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    RC:
    ALDO:

    The brake feel of the GT3 RS is by far better then 650 s in lower speeds. Driving faster there is no difference. But as RC said low speed braking feeling of Porsche GT3 RS is excellent.

    I am still more confident with the GT3 RS on twisties here in Black Forrest. I need time to accept that the 650 s can do it the same on a different way (aero break, break steering and pcc) . I didn´t have any problems with the 650 s but when driving fast through twisty mountain roads I am not so confident as I was with the GT3 RS. Maybe I got used to much with rear axle steering.

     

    It takes time to get used to the mid engine design and the turbo boost, just be careful and you get used to it. Smiley

    Did you guys have a nice time yesterday evening? Sorry that I couldn't come but KA isn't exactly around the corner. Smiley

    Yeah, we did have some nice time and got some tickets. Three nice cars parked in second row. Smiley 

    Next time we will meet somewhere in your region, but if I have read correct your region isn´t so supercar friendly as mine - so better you come to use  Smiley


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    BjoernB:

    The seatposition in a 911 is far superior to any mid-engine "low down - wide car" feeling I previously had. I have posted this before - I would 100% agree with Aldo that you drive yr 911 faster than the Mac on a twisty road. Here I always felt more confident in a 911 than in the MP4,Supperleggera etc - simply because you can place the car much better because of visibility and size/width kiss On a track this advantange of course is not as important.....

    Hmh, seat position? It is hard to say which is better. I would say for track use that the mid-engine seating position must be better. I was driving a 911 the last 17 years, so I have a lot of experience with that layout. Now I have driven only few kilometers with the McLaren and I think I have to learn it first. Maybe you are right, that in a mid-engine car the car feels wider. We will see. Smiley

     


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    What I ment was that you're sitting much more "upright" in 911 with better visibility around you hence have a better feeling  - than down low in a more reclined positiion seeing less around angry

    IMG_0518.JPG


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    this position I didn´t like on the McLaren bucket seats at all. In my car I have electrical seats which you can put in the same upright (like 911) position.  But still you sit so near the front axle that the car appears wider. 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:

    The brake feel of the GT3 RS is by far better then 650 s in lower speeds. Driving faster there is no difference. But as RC said low speed braking feeling of Porsche GT3 RS is excellent.

    I am still more confident with the GT3 RS on twisties here in Black Forrest. I need time to accept that the 650 s can do it the same on a different way (aero break, break steering and pcc) . I didn´t have any problems with the 650 s but when driving fast through twisty mountain roads I am not so confident as I was with the GT3 RS. Maybe I got used to much with rear axle steering.

     

    This mirrors what my friend who writes for Motorpresse told me. He comoared 991 GT3 directly to 570S and in his opinion 991 GT3 is confidence inspiring sportscar while 570S is not. He said that CG who writes for Sport Auto feels the same. In his direct words what feels like 75% in 991 GT3 feels like 95% in 570S.

    So, speed is not everything... But, 570S is extremly quick car, especially in straight line.


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    KresoF1:
    ALDO:

    The brake feel of the GT3 RS is by far better then 650 s in lower speeds. Driving faster there is no difference. But as RC said low speed braking feeling of Porsche GT3 RS is excellent.

    I am still more confident with the GT3 RS on twisties here in Black Forrest. I need time to accept that the 650 s can do it the same on a different way (aero break, break steering and pcc) . I didn´t have any problems with the 650 s but when driving fast through twisty mountain roads I am not so confident as I was with the GT3 RS. Maybe I got used to much with rear axle steering.

     

    This mirrors what my friend who writes for Motorpresse told me. He comoared 991 GT3 directly to 570S and in his opinion 991 GT3 is confidence inspiring sportscar while 570S is not. He said that CG who writes for Sport Auto feels the same. In his direct words what feels like 75% in 991 GT3 feels like 95% in 570S.

    So, speed is not everything... But, 570S is extremly quick car, especially in straight line.

    There was also this very poor first test of the LT 675 in Sportauto (Hockenheim, with understeer etc.). All very strange Smiley


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Markus, the 650S and the 675LT are very fast cars once they gain a bit of speed, they (especially the 675LT) basically annihilate everything moving out there at speeds over 160-180 kph. Only hypercars like the P1, the 918 or the LaFerrari are faster.

    I do not know how McLaren does that but I guess they have less thermodynamical issues than other car manufacturers. yes Or the just don't care about engine lifespan since many McLaren drivers won't probably drive more than 50k km with a single car...ever.  (just a wild guess though, I don't have a clue but McLaren cars are certainly beasts when it comes to high speed performance).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    KresoF1:
    ALDO:

    The brake feel of the GT3 RS is by far better then 650 s in lower speeds. Driving faster there is no difference. But as RC said low speed braking feeling of Porsche GT3 RS is excellent.

    I am still more confident with the GT3 RS on twisties here in Black Forrest. I need time to accept that the 650 s can do it the same on a different way (aero break, break steering and pcc) . I didn´t have any problems with the 650 s but when driving fast through twisty mountain roads I am not so confident as I was with the GT3 RS. Maybe I got used to much with rear axle steering.

     

    This mirrors what my friend who writes for Motorpresse told me. He comoared 991 GT3 directly to 570S and in his opinion 991 GT3 is confidence inspiring sportscar while 570S is not. He said that CG who writes for Sport Auto feels the same. In his direct words what feels like 75% in 991 GT3 feels like 95% in 570S.

    So, speed is not everything... But, 570S is extremly quick car, especially in straight line.

    The 570s has be intention less grip. I have talked with an official from McLaren he said, that around 50-60 km/h earlier you reach the limit with 570s compared to 650s. Why did they do this? He said, people asked for a car to have fun and this not only on track. The 650s is made for road and track, he said over 80% of 650s a driven sometimes on track. The 570s is made for fun on road, they calculate that less then 25% of the cars will be driven on track. SO they reduced the grip, you should feel and work with the car at lower corner speeds. The same thing Porsche have done with the 911R, less aero, thinner tires -> less grip.

    When talking about less confidence between 650s and GT3RS - it is not that the 650s is hard to drive. It is that I am just breaking earlier. I had never a problem around any corner. I need just some more kilometers nothing else. 17 years 911 can´t be compared to two weeks 650s.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    You need time to get used to a mid engined car after the 911, this is very true. If you are lucky, you will love it and it will fit like a second skin to you but you need time for sure.

    I am still learning with my R8 but I reached a point where I need a track or an open airfield to test the limits, too dangerous on public roads.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:

    It is hard to say what benefits the Porsche has. Lower consumption. Lower price. Easier to find a parking slot. Getting in and out.

    The McLaren drives easier, smoother, faster and offers more comfort. With that car you can sit in and drive 500 km for a vacation. With the GT3RS no chance.The car offers such an incredible chassis at the same time so much comfort and no body roll regardless how fast you turn in. 

    well, i drove 1000km in one day in the GT3RS and had no complaints about comfort....i am not saying the macci is not more comfortable but ......


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    RC:

    You need time to get used to a mid engined car after the 911, this is very true. If you are lucky, you will love it and it will fit like a second skin to you but you need time for sure.

    I am still learning with my R8 but I reached a point where I need a track or an open airfield to test the limits, too dangerous on public roads.

    Ii feel exact the same, I need now more room to test where my or the limit of the car is.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    pmarkow:
    ALDO:

    It is hard to say what benefits the Porsche has. Lower consumption. Lower price. Easier to find a parking slot. Getting in and out.

    The McLaren drives easier, smoother, faster and offers more comfort. With that car you can sit in and drive 500 km for a vacation. With the GT3RS no chance.The car offers such an incredible chassis at the same time so much comfort and no body roll regardless how fast you turn in. 

    well, i drove 1000km in one day in the GT3RS and had no complaints about comfort....i am not saying the macci is not more comfortable but ......

    The car is stiff and loud. This for 1.000 km - respect. My longest drive was 250 km to my destination and few hours later 250 km back. It was pure fun, Schwarzwaldhochstraße, but driving Autobahn with this car wasn´t a pleasure for me.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    RC:

    Markus, the 650S and the 675LT are very fast cars once they gain a bit of speed, they (especially the 675LT) basically annihilate everything moving out there at speeds over 160-180 kph. Only hypercars like the P1, the 918 or the LaFerrari are faster.

    I do not know how McLaren does that but I guess they have less thermodynamical issues than other car manufacturers. yes Or the just don't care about engine lifespan since many McLaren drivers won't probably drive more than 50k km with a single car...ever.  (just a wild guess though, I don't have a clue but McLaren cars are certainly beasts when it comes to high speed performance).

    But then: it depends on how one defines "annihilate"... Let's say: maybe 2-3s in case of 650s vs 991.2 turbo S (talking of 0-300kph) and maybe 4s in case of the 675LT. The delta is measurable for sure but maybe not enough to compensate, let's say for disadvantages on twisted roads/tracks. In particular as you can replicate the turbo s acceleration times under nearly all driving conditions... Just point and shoot Smiley


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Don't you know by now, MKSGR? RC lives and dies by 238-303 kph times. It's like the most important metric for him.


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    I actually don't find the seats that comfortable in the McLaren. R8 was much more comfortable for long drives. Ride quality is fantastic of course.


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Markus, the 650S and the 675LT are very fast cars once they gain a bit of speed, they (especially the 675LT) basically annihilate everything moving out there at speeds over 160-180 kph. Only hypercars like the P1, the 918 or the LaFerrari are faster.

    I do not know how McLaren does that but I guess they have less thermodynamical issues than other car manufacturers. yes Or the just don't care about engine lifespan since many McLaren drivers won't probably drive more than 50k km with a single car...ever.  (just a wild guess though, I don't have a clue but McLaren cars are certainly beasts when it comes to high speed performance).

    But then: it depends on how one defines "annihilate"... Let's say: maybe 2-3s in case of 650s vs 991.2 turbo S (talking of 0-300kph) and maybe 4s in case of the 675LT. The delta is measurable for sure but maybe not enough to compensate, let's say for disadvantages on twisted roads/tracks. In particular as you can replicate the turbo s acceleration times under nearly all driving conditions... Just point and shoot Smiley

    The car inhalitates not from 0 but from 40 up. And this is remarkable. When you look at 0-300 times between 911 turbo and 650 and then think about the awd advantage for the start, the  you can imagine the rest.

    there is no disadvantages on twisty roads, the car has so much grip. Unbelievable for a rwd car.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    noone1:

    I actually don't find the seats that comfortable in the McLaren. R8 was much more comfortable for long drives. Ride quality is fantastic of course.

    The sports bucket seat I didn't like too. The touring, full electrical, is really nice.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Yeah, I have those. Maybe I'm just getting older, but they just aren't as good on my lower back on long drives. 


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    check this out --->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLmO47kjk9I


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:
    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Markus, the 650S and the 675LT are very fast cars once they gain a bit of speed, they (especially the 675LT) basically annihilate everything moving out there at speeds over 160-180 kph. Only hypercars like the P1, the 918 or the LaFerrari are faster.

    I do not know how McLaren does that but I guess they have less thermodynamical issues than other car manufacturers. yes Or the just don't care about engine lifespan since many McLaren drivers won't probably drive more than 50k km with a single car...ever.  (just a wild guess though, I don't have a clue but McLaren cars are certainly beasts when it comes to high speed performance).

    But then: it depends on how one defines "annihilate"... Let's say: maybe 2-3s in case of 650s vs 991.2 turbo S (talking of 0-300kph) and maybe 4s in case of the 675LT. The delta is measurable for sure but maybe not enough to compensate, let's say for disadvantages on twisted roads/tracks. In particular as you can replicate the turbo s acceleration times under nearly all driving conditions... Just point and shoot Smiley

    The car inhalitates not from 0 but from 40 up. And this is remarkable. When you look at 0-300 times between 911 turbo and 650 and then think about the awd advantage for the start, the  you can imagine the rest.

    there is no disadvantages on twisty roads, the car has so much grip. Unbelievable for a rwd car.

    Not really - 0-200 is already like 0.5 to 1s faster in the 650s. I.e. between 200 and 300 there is just another second or two. Not so much to make a bigger difference Smiley Still measurable though.

    I would not be surprised if the 991.2 turbo s had very similar Supertest times (NBR and HHR) as the 650s... On PZero street tires...

    P.S.: I just re-read this Supertest review: 

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/supertest-mclaren-650s-spider-nuerburgring-und-hockenheim-9266605.html

    It seems to confirm some of the key statements (including yours) in this thread


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    And then compare with this Supertest:

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/porsche-911-gt3-rs-9854708.html

    In summary, your observations seem right. The GT3 RS is the faster car on the track/twisted roads.


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    MKSGR:
    ALDO:
    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Markus, the 650S and the 675LT are very fast cars once they gain a bit of speed, they (especially the 675LT) basically annihilate everything moving out there at speeds over 160-180 kph. Only hypercars like the P1, the 918 or the LaFerrari are faster.

    I do not know how McLaren does that but I guess they have less thermodynamical issues than other car manufacturers. yes Or the just don't care about engine lifespan since many McLaren drivers won't probably drive more than 50k km with a single car...ever.  (just a wild guess though, I don't have a clue but McLaren cars are certainly beasts when it comes to high speed performance).

    But then: it depends on how one defines "annihilate"... Let's say: maybe 2-3s in case of 650s vs 991.2 turbo S (talking of 0-300kph) and maybe 4s in case of the 675LT. The delta is measurable for sure but maybe not enough to compensate, let's say for disadvantages on twisted roads/tracks. In particular as you can replicate the turbo s acceleration times under nearly all driving conditions... Just point and shoot Smiley

    The car inhalitates not from 0 but from 40 up. And this is remarkable. When you look at 0-300 times between 911 turbo and 650 and then think about the awd advantage for the start, the  you can imagine the rest.

    there is no disadvantages on twisty roads, the car has so much grip. Unbelievable for a rwd car.

    Not really - 0-200 is already like 0.5 to 1s faster in the 650s. I.e. between 200 and 300 there is just another second or two. Not so much to make a bigger difference Smiley Still measurable though.

    I would not be surprised if the 991.2 turbo s had very similar Supertest times (NBR and HHR) as the 650s... On PZero street tires...

    P.S.: I just re-read this Supertest review: 

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/supertest-mclaren-650s-spider-nuerburgring-und-hockenheim-9266605.html

    It seems to confirm some of the key statements (including yours) in this thread

    650 s

    kph 3.0 s
    0 - 120 kph 3.8 s
    0 - 130 kph 4.1 s
    0 - 140 kph 4.6 s
    0 - 180 kph 6.9 s
    0 - 200 kph 8.2 s
    0 - 250 kph 13.1 s
    0 - 300 kph 23.7 s

     

    991.2 turbo s

    0 - 100 kph 2.7 s
    0 - 120 kph 3.6 s
    0 - 130 kph 4.4 s
    0 - 140 kph 4.8 s
    0 - 160 kph 6.0 s
    0 - 180 kph 7.6 s
    0 - 200 kph 9.4 s
    0 - 250 kph 15.6 s
    0 - 300 kph 30.2 s

    To 100 turbo 0,3 faster, to 200 1,2 the 650 faster and to 300 6,5 seconds. 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    We can conclude that HHR suits better Gt3rs then 650s. Short track no long straights. GT3RS 1.08.05 and 650s 1.08.07! This is for both very impressive 

     


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    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    For me this is the best statement. This what I meant with confidence 

     

    Was bei ebener Topografie, also auf normalen Autobahnen oder auch auf Strecken wie dem Kleinen Kurs in Hockenheim Wunder wirkt, weil die Karosseriebewegungen auch im Extremmodus per Dämpfer-Impuls effektvoll auf ein Minimum reduziert werden, zeigt auf Berg-und- Tal-Kursen, die starke vertikale Fahrzeugbewegungen hervorrufen – also speziell auf der Nürburgring-Nordscheife –, doch eher Schwächen als Stärken auf. Dem Fahrer wird hier ein starker Glaube an die Technik abverlangt


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    AM


     
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