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Re: What's the trick?
Quote:
SrfCity said:
Stopped on a hill and you let the clutch out a bit and the engine starts to overrev as you slowly creep up the hill. The next time you stop, it's that dreaded fried clutch smell. What's the answer? Just let the clutch out rapidly without fear of stalling?
Why is the engine over-revving when you let the clutch out? I have driven in hilly SF many times, and I think it's just a matter of feathering the gas/clutch pedal correctly. I have had that awful smell of fried clutch on a couple occasions, when the car was newer and I wasn't as experienced driving it as I am now. I would say you will probably stop over-revving the more miles you put on. Anyway, just my $0.02... good luck
Re: What's the trick?
Quote:
SrfCity said:
Well I think you answered it a bit. You've had lots of practice in SF. I'm not that versed on hills here so I need to get out and get a better hang of it. Unfortunately I'm slipping the clutch too much on take off.
If you want to hill start just hold up the handbrake. Release clutch to the biting point. A small amount of throttle so you feel the car pulling against the handbrake and release. The clutch never needs to be ridded, you just release it immediately as drive is engaged.
Re: What's the trick?
Quote:
jjr1 said:Quote:
SrfCity said:
Well I think you answered it a bit. You've had lots of practice in SF. I'm not that versed on hills here so I need to get out and get a better hang of it. Unfortunately I'm slipping the clutch too much on take off.
If you want to hill start just hold up the handbrake. Release clutch to the biting point. A small amount of throttle so you feel the car pulling against the handbrake and release. The clutch never needs to be ridded, you just release it immediately as drive is engaged.
As easy as that...
Re: What's the trick?
Quote:
If you want to hill start just hold up the handbrake. Release clutch to the biting point. A small amount of throttle so you feel the car pulling against the handbrake and release. The clutch never needs to be ridded, you just release it immediately as drive is engaged.
That's what I did and still burned the clutch a bit. It's a bltch if you're not used to it. I'll get out and practice so I'm more familiar with a smooth take off.
Re: What's the trick?
Quote:
BC997J said:Quote:
jjr1 said:Quote:
SrfCity said:
Well I think you answered it a bit. You've had lots of practice in SF. I'm not that versed on hills here so I need to get out and get a better hang of it. Unfortunately I'm slipping the clutch too much on take off.
If you want to hill start just hold up the handbrake. Release clutch to the biting point. A small amount of throttle so you feel the car pulling against the handbrake and release. The clutch never needs to be ridded, you just release it immediately as drive is engaged.
As easy as that...
Even easier as most people don't even think about it.
Re: What's the trick?
Another thing that's very bad about this situation. As you sit there waiting for the light to go green. you get nervous and your left leg gets "numb" and the tension builds and you dread what's gonna happen when the light turns green.
Here's a tip. When you're waiting on a hill and you see a car coming up to your rear bumper let your car roll back a bit. THAT will make the guy brake and stop earlier and give you more room. It also gives you a little pracitce with the clutch.
My advice? Just go to a hill and practice. The low mass flywheel takes a bit of familiarization.
Here's a tip. When you're waiting on a hill and you see a car coming up to your rear bumper let your car roll back a bit. THAT will make the guy brake and stop earlier and give you more room. It also gives you a little pracitce with the clutch.
My advice? Just go to a hill and practice. The low mass flywheel takes a bit of familiarization.
Oct 10, 2005 3:48:18 PM
- John SF 2005 997 S
- Senior
-
- Loc: San Francisco CA USA
- Posts: 530, Gallery
- Registered on: May 14, 2004
- Reply to: drivejamaican
I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
HANDBRAKE is the answer... I can do perfect starts on the steepest of hills now. Another thing you may want to check is your SHOES !! Tennis shoes give you a much better feel of the clutch that you REALLY need on the hills. I RARELY wear dress shoes when I'm driving because I just can't get a good feel at ALL in those things....
Oct 10, 2005 7:12:02 PM
- 69bossnine
- Rennteam Pro
-
- Loc: FL, USA , United States
- Posts: 2028, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 27, 2005
- Reply to: John SF 2005 997 S
Re: I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
Srf, you just need to practice on this more, it sounds as if you don't have a good "feel" for the flow of adding/decreasing throttle while metering clutch engagement to get a quick but smooth engagement at as low an rpm as is practical/optimal for the engine. It's a balancing act that requires practice at first, and some built-in aptitude.
Proper clutching is kind of like learning to walk/stand on your hands. In the beginning, your upper body and lower body don't know how to work in concert with each other well, and there's alot of panic reflex and overreaction. you're constantly falling over onto your back (over-revving), or flopping back onto your knees (stalling). Then in time, once you get it, you can just stand there, perfectly balanced, your whole body just balancing there effortlessly. Here's the catch though. It's a matter of coordination. I'm not calling you clumsy, because there may well be hope and potential there.
I'm just saying, practice to get it right. Don't shortcut your shortcomings by using your Ebrake as a crutch.
If you've got the coordination, you can do it better. But also, there's just that some people could practice until their hair is gray, and never be able to stand or walk on their hands. The same goes with good stick-shift driving. You've either got it, or you really really don't, or you're somewhere in-between. Everybody has their aptitude. But in the end, driving is an extension of your body, not a procedure manual. You shouldn't need to Ebrake for a hill launch, you should be able to easily and immediately balance revs at 1,000-1,400 rpms, and modulate as-needed, adjusting real-time to the slope at-hand, to quickly attain full engagement. You've got to practice enough to where your clutch foot and throttle foot coordinate almost naturally and intuitively, so that starting on a steep grade isn't something you even give conscious thought to. In my neighborhood where I grew up, the entrance road was a flippin 20-percent grade, that you had to come to a complete stop on, look both ways, and then proceed. I had to learn it on my dirtbike as a little kid, because if you start rolling backwards on a bike, it's not a pretty site!! LOL!!!
I'm not tooting my horn here, because I'm no flippin Mario Andretti by any stretch...I'm just posing this for illustrative sake.
I don't really think twice about dead-stop launches, regardless of grade, or rev-matching at speed, or gear shifting in general. After all these years, it's as second-nature as walking down the sidewalk and skipping up and down curbs. It just comes without thinking, after years of doing...
How many here feel the same while driving,
And how many feel like they're always battling their clutch and their throttle for harmony??
Proper clutching is kind of like learning to walk/stand on your hands. In the beginning, your upper body and lower body don't know how to work in concert with each other well, and there's alot of panic reflex and overreaction. you're constantly falling over onto your back (over-revving), or flopping back onto your knees (stalling). Then in time, once you get it, you can just stand there, perfectly balanced, your whole body just balancing there effortlessly. Here's the catch though. It's a matter of coordination. I'm not calling you clumsy, because there may well be hope and potential there.
I'm just saying, practice to get it right. Don't shortcut your shortcomings by using your Ebrake as a crutch.
If you've got the coordination, you can do it better. But also, there's just that some people could practice until their hair is gray, and never be able to stand or walk on their hands. The same goes with good stick-shift driving. You've either got it, or you really really don't, or you're somewhere in-between. Everybody has their aptitude. But in the end, driving is an extension of your body, not a procedure manual. You shouldn't need to Ebrake for a hill launch, you should be able to easily and immediately balance revs at 1,000-1,400 rpms, and modulate as-needed, adjusting real-time to the slope at-hand, to quickly attain full engagement. You've got to practice enough to where your clutch foot and throttle foot coordinate almost naturally and intuitively, so that starting on a steep grade isn't something you even give conscious thought to. In my neighborhood where I grew up, the entrance road was a flippin 20-percent grade, that you had to come to a complete stop on, look both ways, and then proceed. I had to learn it on my dirtbike as a little kid, because if you start rolling backwards on a bike, it's not a pretty site!! LOL!!!
I'm not tooting my horn here, because I'm no flippin Mario Andretti by any stretch...I'm just posing this for illustrative sake.
I don't really think twice about dead-stop launches, regardless of grade, or rev-matching at speed, or gear shifting in general. After all these years, it's as second-nature as walking down the sidewalk and skipping up and down curbs. It just comes without thinking, after years of doing...
How many here feel the same while driving,
And how many feel like they're always battling their clutch and their throttle for harmony??
Oct 10, 2005 7:26:18 PM
- eddie
- Junior
-
- Loc: uk
- Posts: 132, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 5, 2005
- Reply to: 69bossnine
Re: I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
I must say I agree with the Boss. I recall reading a thread about how to take off quickly and that one should do it from 3K rpm, while someone else disagreed. I thought interesting and tried, and found that I did it at least at 3K rpm and that was just driving intuitively.
I think a lot of driving now is intuitive. My current sport is seeing how low rpm wise, that I can get my car to move off in 1st gear!
I think a lot of driving now is intuitive. My current sport is seeing how low rpm wise, that I can get my car to move off in 1st gear!
Oct 10, 2005 7:29:47 PM
- greggr107
- Pilot
-
- Loc: San Jose, CA
- Posts: 385, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 20, 2005
- Reply to: 69bossnine
Re: I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
It's seems like the P is a little more tricky than the many other sticks I've had over the years. The point where the clutch engages, matched with the correct RPM's, seems to be a critical balance(ie not too forgiving) that isn't always easy to achieve perfectly, especially on hills. I've read others who've hinted about this so I know I'm not alone. Maybe I'm the only "girlie mon" who's copping to it. 
Re: I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
Quote:
SrfCity said:
It's seems like the P is a little more tricky than the many other sticks I've had over the years. The point where the clutch engages, matched with the correct RPM's, seems to be a critical balance(ie not too forgiving) that isn't always easy to achieve perfectly, especially on hills. I've read others who've hinted about this so I know I'm not alone. Maybe I'm the only "girlie mon" who's copping to it.
SrfCity,
Also be sure to practice first with the stereo off, since your foot control between clutch and throttle can partly rely on the sound of the engine for feedback on how high the engine is revving when you begin to release clutch/push throttle. The aural feedback is less important at flat stops since you are more experienced on the level. Once you get the hang of using adjustments in clutch/throttle to keep revs in a small range on a slope (e.g., 1,500-2,000), you should then be able to use the tach alone without the feedback from engine sound to handle a smooth acceleration from an incline, with stereo system fully activated.
Re: I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
I find that the non sport PASM throttle mapping actually makes it harder on a hill.
When you are in stop/start traffic, having the car in normal (not sport mode) is great as the non linear throttle response smooths the cars movement, so even if you are a bit lead footed your passenger isn't peeling their nose off the dash. In most cars its pretty hard to drive smoothly in crawling traffic without riding the clutch as the throttle is sooo responsive in 1st gear. Normal PASM allows for a lot more throttle travel....I have however found that on a steep hill this is more of a curse than a blessing.....Basically I find that the throttle doesn't respond the way I expect it to and it becomes very easy to stall. Depending on which PASM mode your in, it feels like two different bite points.
I wouldn't worry too much about fried clutch smell....it's probably more related to the newness of the car than your driving skill....Also, if you fixate on it too much, you'll psych yourself out.
MMD....I love your suggestion when on a hill....I do that all the time, just let the car roll back a bit.....it's a great way of telling the car behind to back the f&ck up a bit.....I guess because most people aren't driving sticks here, it's unbelievable how close they get to you!!!
When you are in stop/start traffic, having the car in normal (not sport mode) is great as the non linear throttle response smooths the cars movement, so even if you are a bit lead footed your passenger isn't peeling their nose off the dash. In most cars its pretty hard to drive smoothly in crawling traffic without riding the clutch as the throttle is sooo responsive in 1st gear. Normal PASM allows for a lot more throttle travel....I have however found that on a steep hill this is more of a curse than a blessing.....Basically I find that the throttle doesn't respond the way I expect it to and it becomes very easy to stall. Depending on which PASM mode your in, it feels like two different bite points.
I wouldn't worry too much about fried clutch smell....it's probably more related to the newness of the car than your driving skill....Also, if you fixate on it too much, you'll psych yourself out.
MMD....I love your suggestion when on a hill....I do that all the time, just let the car roll back a bit.....it's a great way of telling the car behind to back the f&ck up a bit.....I guess because most people aren't driving sticks here, it's unbelievable how close they get to you!!!
Re: I live in San Francisco and the hills will get you !
Quote:
SrfCity said:
The point where the clutch engages, matched with the correct RPM's, seems to be a critical balance(ie not too forgiving)
What mileage have you done? I found that the car (clutch and engine) becomes more forgiving (ie less eager to stall) as it beds in a little between 500 and 1000 miles. So that, plus the fact that you're more used to the balance point by then, helps.
Oct 11, 2005 11:54:52 PM
- FSU-997TT
- Pilot
-
- Loc: Florida , United States
- Posts: 412, Gallery
- Registered on: May 29, 2005
- Reply to: John SF 2005 997 S
Re: 69bossnine-I'm guessing you've never been to San Francisco !
John, that photo reminds me of the last time I was in SF, It was a couple of years ago about this time of year and the Blue Angles were in town for Fleet Week....we were standing at the end of one of the peirs facing Alcatraz and one of the F-14s came under the bridge and broke the sound barrier right in front of us at about 10' above the bay. To see the condensation cloud form at water level was fricken amazing.......such a cool sight to see in person.
Re: 69bossnine-I'm guessing you've never been to San Francisco !
Good timing! Fleet Week was just last week. Of course, the whiners here in SF complained about the noise. 
It's pretty amazing to see that type of show with such a great background.
Now...back to our regularly scheduled hill discussion...
It's pretty amazing to see that type of show with such a great background.
Now...back to our regularly scheduled hill discussion...
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