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    No way! The rear engine is here to stay...

    With all due respect, I don't believe the 911's days are numbered at all. If you see all the 911 'Driven by Precision' videos on the Porsche website, it's abundantly clear that Porsche never intend to tinker with the essence of the 911. They only want to enhance it, improve it. Evolution not revolution. Oh no, I'm beginning to sound like a marketing guru!

    Re: No way! The rear engine is here to stay...

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Oh no, I'm beginning to sound like a marketing guru!



    No, just like someone who's getting his hands on his beautiful 997S very soon

    Re: Yes, the days are numbered, the number is just very larg

    Quote:
    adrift said:
    ...If most Porsche buyers were really enthusiasts, they would want the best Porsche they could get, whatever model that may be...



    So you saying Gayman owners are not enthusiasts??? Maybe they just can't afford the best Porsche at the moment, and therefore will settle for just the Coxster ;p

    Believe me, I'm counting the days.... agghh!

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said: No, just like someone who's getting his hands on his beautiful 997S very soon


    44 more days to go. It's starting to hurt more and more...

    Re: No way! The rear engine is here to stay...

    Well as I raised this discussion I'd better air my views.

    Long may the rear engined Porsche continue It is a great car and a miracle that such a great car can be made out of a fundementally wrong layout. The fact that it beats the competition again and again in road tests is testiment to Porsche's achievement.

    Me, personally I prefer the agility of a mid engined layout. Recently my Porsche dealer lent me a 997 s for three days, and whilst I loved everything about the car, especially the performance, traction and sports exhaust sound , when I got back into my Boxster S I noticed the kart like agility immediately after the somehow "big car" feeling of the 997.

    I just can't help trying to imagine what a Cayman S would be like if Porsche engineered the 355bhp 911 mill into it...

    Re: No way! The rear engine is here to stay...

    As long a we keep buying the 997 Porsche will keep making it. Hey it's their bread and butter (i.e. they make tons of money selling it).

    Re: So boring!

    Quote:
    Ronnie said:
    well said Chef.

    rear engined Porsches are no more doomed than petrol engined cars.



    Guys just think about this...
    As much as I love the 911.... -It's still the only sports car that delivers a unique driving experience-...it's days are sadly numbered. But I'm not talking about in a few years time, rather in about 15-20 .

    Porsche is struggling HUGELY in the horsepower and accerleration wars with its normally-aspirated engines. There is no normally-aspirated Porsche for sale now that can even beat a car like a BMW M5 for example . They gonna have to make their Non-Turbo cars faster to make them more competable. Look at the GT3. That 3,6 litre engine is pushing out a huge ammount of power for its engine size but they wont be able to carry on in that manner. The way I see it there are only 2 ways of increasing power without increasing engine size... Forced induction i.e Turbo/supercharging, or increasing engine size. As they say, Theres no replacement for displacement, so soon Porsche will either have to increase to 3,8 (like they did), then what?? 4litres, 4.2, 4.4??? I dont care what anybody says but once that engine in that back of a 911 gets much heavier it WILL NOT handle well. I know it's been said hundreds of time before but physics can only be stretched to a certain point
    The other option is for them to start putting Turbo's in the car's from even 'base' models. It could work, but then what about the King of 911's, the Turbo. Well it wouldnt be THE Turbo anymore...rather just another 911 with a turbo thats faster than the rest... And what about guys that prefer normally aspirated engines to engines with forced aspiration???

    Supercharging??? Not so sure??? Maybe to solve the above Turbo delimma they'll Turbo and Supercharge future Turbo's (Like VW's Polo GTi) to differentiate it from lesser models and call it the Porsche 911 Super Turbo


    Other cars are catching up gentlemen, and even passed some of Porsche finest The new M3's gonna be a huge threat. I think it will even be a better performer than a Carrera S.
    I'm thinking that the 911 will stay, but that it will take on a more GTish role (maybe thats why many have complained that the 997 Turbo feels more like a GT than a sportscar???) and that a Mid-engined coup, like the Cayman will replace it's sports car role. Just my assumption
    I'd hate for this to happen but some big change like this will happen sooner or later. It wont be over-night, rather a long-term 'morph' (cannot think of a better word right now ) over years. I also think that the Cayman is a tester to see how the market will accept a car like that...







    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbered?

    IMHO, it's here to stay. Porsche has developed the technologies to make the rear engine platform handle nearly as well as the mid-engine platform, plus the rear engine placement still gives better traction. No other manufacturer can do this. It's a niche, and an icon, that they should never give it up.

    Jim

    Re: So boring!

    If the Cayman had the interior dimensions of a 997 and same or better performance I would probably have bought it. I had my 997Scab serviced yesterday and my dealer lent me a Boxster. Even though it felt more balanced than the Carrera, the fit and finish, the sound, and the overall joy was missing. I felt like I was driving a toy. The Caymans competition is the Z4 Mcoupe and for the 911 it's the M3 and the Corvette. Porsche is going to have to raise the bar and figure out a way to increase (N.A.) H.P. #'s BIGTIME!!!

    Re: So boring!

    The 911 is like beer....

    There are tons of newer, fruitier, arguably "better tasting" adult beverages being flung out into the market perpetually... and many of them become quite successful and established within certain demographics and markets...

    But none of that means [censored], there will always be beer, and those who drink beer, who could care less about the fruitier and more palatable alternatives that, in purely objective terms, would seem to be a superior product to the virgin tongue.

    Re: So boring!

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    Porsche is going to have to raise the bar and figure out a way to increase (N.A.) H.P. #'s BIGTIME!!!



    Well they have over 400 HP in the GT3 without turbo. This shows that if Porsche wanted to put more HP in all of the 997 they can. Really how much HP are we talking about? Porsche makes different models for different people. I drive a 997 (base model) and having over 300 HP in a car that weighs a tad over 3000 lbs is great. Would I like to have more, hey why not but I don't need it. Really guys/gals if the base 997 had 500 HP we would still be saying the same thing. Again I go back to my original saying. If we keep buying the 997 they will keep making it.

    Re: So boring!

    I would love to have the GT3 engine in my cab

    Re: So boring!

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    I would love to have the GT3 engine in my cab


    I'd like to see it in the Cayman...

    Re: So boring!

    I think the Cayman deserves it more!!!, but it would make me happiest in my cab

    Re: So boring!

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    I think the Cayman deserves it more!!!, but it would make me happiest in my cab


    You can buy a GT3 motor in a crate for a mere $50k or so But, then you still need to pay for installation. Though I'm sure someone would like to buy your motor and put it in a Cayman (to help defray the cost)...

    Re: So boring!

    Little boys dream of having a 911 when they're big.
    The 911 is the most iconic design in the history of the automobile.
    It has won countless awards. Say Porsche people think 911.

    I drive a Cayman S, I think its a fantastic car. Its the perfect car for me right now. However thinking that it will take over the 911's top of the range spot is misguided. I just hope the two will co-exist into the future,because I'd quite like to buy a 911 oneday.

    Re: So boring!

    I hate to break the bad news, but the turbo already is a GT cruiser. It is way too heavy and "soft" to be a really good sports car (floaty suspension, ridiculously soft clutch, long soft shifter throw, did i mention heavy...?). At least the 996TT was this way. I haven't been in a in 997TT.

    I don't think Porsche should retire the 911, but they SHOULD give the Cayman (and the Boxster) their legs to go as far and fast as they can. Then let the market decide who wants what.

    I just want them to race the Cayman. Like I said, get a few wins under its belt and your head will spin at how fast people jump on the bandwagon. History and tradition is great, but we brag most about our team's latest victories.

    Re: So boring!

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    The 911 is like beer....

    There are tons of newer, fruitier, arguably "better tasting" adult beverages being flung out into the market perpetually... and many of them become quite successful and established within certain demographics and markets...

    But none of that means [censored], there will always be beer, and those who drink beer, who could care less about the fruitier and more palatable alternatives that, in purely objective terms, would seem to be a superior product to the virgin tongue.



    You're right.... The 911 is the Jack Daniels of whisky There are more expensive ones, cheaper ones, better tasting (to some) etc, etc, etc. The 911 will always sell no matter what.

    But it will sadly not be able to compete and be the benchmark against the competition for THAT much longer.
    Like I said before.... you can only stretch physics that far

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbered?

    "Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbered?"

    No they are not numbered!

    I would always want to buy/have one.
    If I want, many others will want....
    If many other want... and Porsche want our money...
    Porsche will make what we want... a rear engined 911!
    Simple economics.

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbered?

    I have a 997C4S, and am due to have the X51 retro fitted next week. My previous car was a TVR Tuscan 2S. The TVR was much faster in a straight line. It was more powerful. It weighed less. It had better brakes. Most people thought the Tuscan was too showy, but personally I preferred it's looks to the 911.

    BUT in absolute driving terms I much much much MUCH MUCH prefer my 911. Never once have I regretted making the swap. Even if the TVR was as reliable as the Porsche I would still prefer to drive the 911. For me what does it is the FEEL of the 911. That rollerskate effect of having the engine in the back pushing me along. The bob of the nose. The way it squats down and grips like a limpit on round tight sweepers. The way it feels when it's airborne. The noise it makes (oh and yes the TVR was louder too). The fact that EVERY time I get in the thing I want to extend my journey and spend longer in the car. And IMI it's one of the most thrilling cars ever in which to overtake other traffic.

    BUT MOST OF ALL is how evocative the car is. All the time I'm driving it my mind is flicking away to the Athena poster on my bedroom wall aged 11, all those movie car chases (Stander, Spy Game, various German heist films), the dark blue one that used to park across the street when I was a kid, and that picture of a 911 ducktailed RS in a book I used to have.

    There is and probably never will be another car like the 911. It's unique. And I couldn't care less if Porsche built a car that was more perfect, because I prefer flawed beauty - it's far more interesting. So go ahead Porsche stick the freakin Carrera GT engine into the Cayman AND turbocharge it. I don't care I still want my C4S. I could have bought a turbo, but I doesn't float my boat. I only bought the 4WD car because the weather is [beep] here, and I like the wider body.

    And why the powerpack? Well because it has more torque at low revs and being a clumsy [beep] I keep stalling it LOL.

    Truth is that even if Porsche did build a much better handling car I wouldn't notice because, like most people, I'm not Walter Rohl (and never will be). And what I feel through the seat of my pants means so much more to me than what I read on a spec sheet.

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbered?

    Amen, Flash! I am with you 100%!

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    beautufully laid out Flash

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    Flash, this post almost deserves to be framed.

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    Yes, the rear engined car's days are numbered.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    But considering that the rear engined VW Beetle (which was designed by Porsche in the 1930's) turned out to be THE all time best selling car in world history and is STILL going strong , I would guess that it has a few days left .

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    Quote:
    jcs said:
    Yes, the rear engined car's days are numbered.
    Nothing lasts forever.
    But considering that the rear engined VW Beetle (which was designed by Porsche in the 1930's) turned out to be THE all time best selling car in world history and is STILL going strong , I would guess that it has a few days left .



    LOL - deftly understated!

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    But it wont be the sports car for that much longer

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbered?

    Quote:
    WC996 said:
    I'm soon going to post photos and a review of my good friend's Cayman S project recently completed. He just completed a transplant of new from Porsche X-51 997 3.8 with custom, headers, exhaust, PSS9. Dyno/ECU tuning in the next week or so. The car is an absolute monster and the sound...unbelieveable. The PSS9's transformed the handling of an already great setup to something so many levels more it's truly hard to beleive. Too bad the factory will never allow this setup. http://www.mindovermotorsports.com/




    Could you explain to me why the 3.8 liter engine sounds "unbelievable" when its installed in a Cayman ,
    and only so-so in my 997 S ?

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    Quote:
    BC911J said:
    But it wont be the sports car for that much longer



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qwxfnMJuqE

    If you watch this clip to the end, you'll see a 996 GT3 clock up a better time in the soaking wet than a 4WD EVO MCMLXVIII can achieve in the dry. The 997 is quicker still. Look at Nurburgring lap times and the 997 GT3 is right up there. I think the competition has a lot of catching up to do, and they're shooting at a moving target. Show me a clip where a comparable mass produced road car beats a 911 around a circuit, wet or dry??? I've yet to see one.

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    Quote:
    Flash said:
    Quote:
    BC911J said:
    But it wont be the sports car for that much longer



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qwxfnMJuqE

    If you watch this clip to the end, you'll see a 996 GT3 clock up a better time in the soaking wet than a 4WD EVO MCMLXVIII can achieve in the dry. The 997 is quicker still. Look at Nurburgring lap times and the 997 GT3 is right up there. I think the competition has a lot of catching up to do, and they're shooting at a moving target. Show me a clip where a comparable mass produced road car beats a 911 around a circuit, wet or dry??? I've yet to see one.



    Dont misunderstand me... It's the best now but I'm not sure if that will still be the case in about 15 - 20 years time

    Re: Are the days of the rear engined Porsche numbe

    BTW it's not that I'm a hater or anything... I'm a HUGE Porsche and 911 fan... It's just simple physics and I wish i was wrong but.......

     
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