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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The red cam covers and red lettering have been added by owners on those GTV engines. The 75 didn't have coloured lettering on the cam covers. I had a 2.0 T Spark and a couple of the 2.5 V6 models of those

    The 3.0 V6 on the first series of the 164 didn't have red lettering on the cam covers either. From memory I think they introduced that with the Cloverleaf version.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    1750 GT Veloce (1967–1971)

    It is the best I have been able to find that looks like what a neighbor owned back in the early 70's. His was a dark green exterior and I don't even remember the interior, but the car looked awesome!

    Unfortunately, my main memory of the owner was that he was the guy who knocked out electrical service to most of the neighborhood while cutting down a tree   enlightened

    It was still a beautiful car and quite rare in Kansas (back when I used to live there, before I upgraded to Missouri    )

    Still need to see if I can find a better pic.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    That's a beautiful car indeed.  Here's a picture of a silver one:

    And here's the interior


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Mine was the GT 1600 Junior, like the above but with 2 headlights.

    Now that I see the perfectly positioned gear lever in the second picture, I remember  that the gear change on these cars was the best of any car past and present. "Like a hot knife through butter" as the British press liked to say.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    Mine was the GT 1600 Junior, like the above but with 2 headlights.

    Now that I see the perfectly positioned gear lever in the second picture, I remember  that the gear change on these cars was the best of any car past and present. "Like a hot knife through butter" as the British press liked to say.

    Alfas also had 5-speed boxes at a time when other marques were running just 3 or 4.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    5 speed boxes, discs on all four wheels, twin cam engines and sodium filled exhaust valves were all novelties in those ancient times.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    5 speed boxes, discs on all four wheels, twin cam engines and sodium filled exhaust valves were all novelties in those ancient times.

    We witnessed the Decline and Fall of the Milanese (engineering) Empire.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I don't get it, I really don't. So many great cars...Ferrari, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, even some Fiat models and only Ferrari has actually really survived. What went wrong with Fiat? I don't get it. yes

    My first car was a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0. I loved it, even if I didn't have it for long (car was used, dealer forgot to check/add oil and 200 km later, I ended up with a damaged engine). Second car was a Fiat 127 Sport, I loved this little rascal too but after only one year, the driver door was full of rust.

    As you can see, I really was into italian cars, had a couple of Lancia Delta HF Integrale models afterwards and even a Lancia Thema Turbo but all of them had issues, none was really perfect or halfway OK, so... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Fiat management screwed up.... 

    Ferrari kept Fiat as much as possible from interfering with their businiess. That saved them.


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:

    Fiat management screwed up.... 

    Ferrari kept Fiat as much as possible from interfering with their businiess. That saved them.

    This is actually a pretty good analysis but can it be that simple? Was the Fiat management really that incompetent?! Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I think they were. and they were pretty selfish. They didn't put much efford in Lancia and Alfa Romeo. Alfa has a new management since a couple of years and they are trying to put Alfa back on the map, but they are still being held back because of the available recources. Fiat is still in command, but they seem to give some more freedom to the Alfa  managemet now. i just hope it isn't too late. I think the fact that VW wanted Alfa Romeo so badly, woke them up....

    I hope they will do the same with Lancia, but i guess that's wishful thinking. Rebadged Chryslers is not what Lancia should be....


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Before the unified european market when tariffs existed, FIat and its subsidiaries held some 90% of the Italian market. The existence of this captive market gradually created a sense of complacency within the Fiat Group. As a result after the creation  of the single market in 1993, Italian auto industry was left naked and behind the times in the face of the German  manufacturers.

    Furthermore, the existence of radical communist trade unions didn't help at all.

    Pity, because Italy has created the supercar at one end but also the affordable and at the same time interesting automobile at the other end.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    My first car was a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0. I loved it, ...............had a couple of Lancia Delta HF Integrale models afterwards and even a Lancia Thema Turbo...............


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    I had a Lancia Beta Coupe, and a Delta Integrale, and believe it or not  briefly a Lancia Thema i.e. Turbo as well all the same as you. However, you've just taken delivery of a brand new 991 Turbo S. I've recently taken delivery of a Skoda.  Something is telling me I got it wrong somewhere....Smiley


    --

     

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    dreamcar:
    RC:

    My first car was a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0. I loved it, ...............had a couple of Lancia Delta HF Integrale models afterwards and even a Lancia Thema Turbo...............


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    I had a Lancia Beta Coupe, and a Delta Integrale, and believe it or not  briefly a Lancia Thema i.e. Turbo as well all the same as you. However, you've just taken delivery of a brand new 991 Turbo S. I've recently taken delivery of a Skoda.  Something is telling me I got it wrong somewhere....Smiley

    Don't take that too seriously. I had a lot of luck in life (knock on wood) and while others spend money for art, expensive wines or whatever coin/stamps/etc. collections, I spend my money on cars. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:

    That's a beautiful car indeed.  Here's a picture of a silver one:

    And here's the interior

     

    utterly stunning .. so stylish, and so simple


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    As a child, this was my favorite non exotic car kiss


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    My first car was a Lancia Beta Coupe 2.0. I loved it, ...............had a couple of Lancia Delta HF Integrale models afterwards and even a Lancia Thema Turbo...............

    In the 70's I had a Lancia Fulvia 1.6 HF - I really loved that car but hated watching it just rust away...Smiley

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I once owned a '69 Fiat Dino Spyder. It was a diabolical combination of Italian Style, Rust and Ferrari maintenance. Pretty, but omfg electrics and rust. But it sounded great!


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Practical question here: Does the 4C have a "frunk" like the Cayman and Boxster? The rear trunk is quite small. I keep looking for clamshell shut lines in the pictures, but I don't see any. So does that mean that the front bodywork is fixed??


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    From what I have seen and searched; the rear compartment looks a bit narrow, but otherwise pretty darn good. I have not found any mention of frontal compartment storage at all.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    There is no front storage. The front clam is fixed in place I believe and only removed during workshop service. The rear storage is pretty small and gets hot according to various reviews I've read.

    Boot 1.JPG

    Boot 2.JPG

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Sunday Times Review by Jeremy Clarkson

    MY coffee machine is a complete and utter pain in the backside. It’s a wall-mounted Gaggia and I cannot recall a single occasion when, after pushing the button, I have taken delivery of a cup of actual coffee.

    It always wants water, and after you’ve filled up its bowl, it says: “Empty trays.” So you empty them, and then it says they aren’t emptied properly. So you empty them again and then again, and then you scrub them until they shine like a furnace worker’s face. And then you put them back and it says: “Trays missing.” So you put them in again more firmly, several times, until it says: “Empty trays.”

    Eventually, of course, you resort to extreme brute force, whereupon it becomes Italian and changes tack. “Add beans,” it says. So you open another tin of £900 Illy coffee beans and, being careful not to upset the trays in any way, you pour them into — as I write, I can hear it doing things in the kitchen, but I don’t know what — the bean drawer. And then it says: “Clean unit.” So you have to go against every male instinct and find the instruction book, which tells you to hold clamp A while squeezing nozzle B for about a couple of hours, and then when you put it all back together it says it wants decalcifying.

    Usually I don’t get my morning coffee until it’s time for afternoon tea. But, of course, it’s worth persevering, because when the moment finally arrives the result tastes a whole lot nicer than the instant alternative.

    It’s the same story with your choice of pet. A dog requires almost constant attention. It raids your bin, gets the bones it’s nicked stuck in its throat, bites the postman, eats the milk lady, poos on the carpet, wants a walk when it’s raining, barks in the night for no reason and gets ill on Christmas Day, when the vet is too drunk to come over. But despite all this it’s so much more satisfying than a feed-and-forget cat.

    Which naturally brings me on to Alfa Romeo, an experience that’s subtly different. I had one once, a GTV6, and it was like a coffee machine — that had been designed by a dog. At night it would let all the air escape from its tyres, its clutch would weld itself to the flywheel and once it dropped its gear linkage onto the prop shaft, causing an extremely loud noise to happen, followed by the rear wheels locking up. It was a constant nightmare.

    But here’s the thing: even when it was a sunny day, and it wasn’t being premenstrual, it was a pretty horrible car to drive. The steering was too heavy, the driving position was tailored for an ape, second gear was impossible to find and it handled as though it was running on heroin.

    It’s not alone, either. At present, the Giulietta is ho-hum and the MiTo is ghastly. And if we plunge into the pages of recent history, we find the 8C, which wasn’t quite as good as it looked, and the SZ, which was the other way round. But only because it looked as if it had been designed by a madman. The 33, the 75, the 156, the 159 and the 164? There’s not a great car there. Just many puddles of oil on your garage floor.

    And yet Alfa Romeo is still my favourite car maker. I still believe you can’t really call yourself a petrolhead until you’ve owned one. So why is this?

    It’s no good going back to the Sixties and saying: “It’s because of the GTA.” Yes, it was fabulous, but it was one car in a torrent of rubbish. Judging Alfa on this one achievement would be the same as ignoring all of Mussolini’s crimes simply because he once bought his mother some flowers.

    I’ve had a good, long think and reckon that in all its history Alfa has made only four or five really good cars. Memorable cars. And that in the past 30 years it hasn’t made one.

    Yet the love remains and I think it’s because we all sort of know what Alfa could and should be making. We have in our minds a mini Ferrari. A supercar on a shoestring. Pretty as hell, lithe as a greyhound, cheap as chips and built for fun. We have in our minds the car you see here this morning. The 4C. Sadly, pictures do not do this little car justice. In the flesh it is utterly gorgeous. Spoilt, some say, by the headlamps. Yes, maybe, in the way Cindy Crawford is spoilt by her mole — that is, not spoilt at all.

    But it’s not the looks that impress most with the 4C. It’s how it’s made. Before this, if you wanted a car with an all-carbon-fibre tub, you had a choice: you bought a machine such as a McLaren MP4-12C or you bought a Formula One racer. It’s expensive to make a car this way, but that’s what Alfa has done.

    The benefit is lightness, and that’s a theme it has continued throughout. So, if you’re after luxury and soundproofing and lots of standard equipment, forget it. There’s no satellite navigation. You don’t even get power steering.

    The result is a car that tips the scales, fat with fluids, at well under a ton. Which means it doesn’t need a big engine. Instead, mounted in the middle of the car, is a 1742cc turbo unit that itself is made to be so light it has to be bolted in place to stop it floating away.

    Disappointed that it only has the four-cylinder engine from a motorised pencil sharpener? Well, don’t be. Because, thanks to the lightness, you can get to 62mph in 4.5 seconds and onwards past 160mph. Way past, I found. Oh, and 40mpg-plus is on the cards as well.

    I shall make no bones about it. I loved this car. It’s like being at the controls of a housefly. You can brake later than you think possible into corners, knowing that there’s barely any weight to transfer. And it has so much grip. Then there’s the noise. Or rather noises. It makes thousands. All loud. All mad.

    Yes, the interior trim is shocking, but if you want that lightness, it’s the price you pay. And you do want it. Because lightness is coming. It has to. It makes both the polar bear and the petrolhead happy. And in the Alfa it made me very happy indeed. I drove the car round Lake Como on a sunny evening and there was almost a tear in my eye. I kept thinking that life didn’t really get any better.

    Now the boring stuff. I fitted easily. The boot is big. The dash readout is clever and clear so you don’t need spectacles to see how fast you’re going. And you can choose how you want your car to feel. Really. Just put it in Dynamic mode. And leave it there.

    There are only a couple of drawbacks. The gearbox is a bit dim-witted and the steering isn’t quite as sharp as I had been expecting. Also, it’s wider than a Mercedes SLS AMG, which means it’s wider than Utah. And it costs around £45,000. That, for a carbon fibre-tubbed mini-supercar, is not bad at all. But it does put it in the same price bracket as a Porsche Cayman.

    Of course, the Cayman is more in tune with where we are now. It feels sturdy, and well made and luxurious. But that sort of thing will have to stop. We will have to go down Alfa’s route, which means, in fact, the 4C feels like the future.

    It also feels like the Alfa that the company made only in your dreams. It feels wonderful. I’m sure, naturally, that it will be like my coffee machine to own. But, unlike with any other Alfa in living memory, the rewards will make all the effort worth it.

    Verdict:
    Alfa, it’s good to have you back


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I agree that the 4C will be an excellent driving machine, and very welcome amongst the gear heads, including myself. That said, my "other" car would still need to pass the weekend trip test, where I could fit a couple suitcases and a passenger to drive up and down the coast, or to the next city several hours away. Could the 4C do it? Without any front storage, it's looking about as practical as a Lotus Elise at the moment, though subjectively more emotionally appealing. 

    I also agree with Clarkson that the future of car building must focus on lightness, in the same way competition bicycles and commercial airlines focus on weight. Gone are the days of a sofa on wheels. In particular, I think that cars still can be comfortable with composite molded seat backs and judiciously applied leather here and there. In fact, I'm waiting for the first performance sedans with this theme to appear at auto shows, not just in stripped down sport racers. 

    What if the practicality of a 981 Cayman or 991 Carrera was mated with the weight-weenie theme of a 4C? Now there's a thought over which I salivate!


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Although Alfa Romeo must be congratulated for this car, after so many years of mediocre FIAT derived machines, IMO this car doesn't fall into any effective buying category and it will not serve very well its purpose as a halo model.

    It is rather impractical for everyday driving, even short weekend stays. The buyer of the 4C will need at least another one car to cover his/her needs.

    OTOH it is not a rough and ready track/Sunday morning car for a wider audience; too expensive for that.

    Therefore, it is addressed to multi-car owners, who are not the typical market for the rest of the Alfa products and they don't drive each of their cars enough so as to advertise the brand. The average prospective buyer for Alfa might never see the 4C in the street to wet his appetite for the next Giulia or the Giulietta.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The 4C is definitely a practical car.  Not everyone wants a impress the masses mobile, a dull box or a really ugly big box to drive. The 4C has visual presence and by accounts so far, is actually ...fun. Of course fun doesn't matter if someone has declared themselves old and boring at age 30 or once considered owning a Subaru.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    Therefore, it is addressed to multi-car owners...

    Yes, indeed! With such limited storage, I think the 4C effectively is the third or fourth car.


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I test drove an Elise S (supercharged) today just to remind myself.  The fit and finish are way better than when I owned an S1 12 years ago.  The engine is a peach for a 4cyl and the 6 speed box is a revelation.  The car goes like stink and it has lots none of its delicacy in the handling department.  In other words, it is utterly fantastic kiss

    In layout and spec terms, I think these two cars are very close rivals. The photos and initial reviews don't make me think the 4C is much more useable on a daily basis but seat comfort might be a big differentiator.  I can't wait to try the 4C now.


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I think you are right GR. The 4C is much more compareable with the Elise than it is with the Cayman. A Cayman is more luxurious. However, the fact that many journalists compare the 4C with a Cayman, says something good about the 4C I guess. ;)

     

    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I wouldn't call the Cayman luxurious but an all round sportscar. The 4C is not as one dimensional as a Lotus for example, but still not as complete as a Porsche.

    I don't think that the 4C is a Cayman rival. They are both mid engined and cost approximately the same and that's where the similarities end.

    The 4C will appeal to Italian car fans who cannot afford a Ferrari Italia (yet?) or to collectors of limited production cars.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I'm not sure the 4C will be any less one dimensional than the Lotus.  Perhaps I'm biased though - I drove an Elise as my daily car for over 2 years.


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


     
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