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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    vantagesc:

    There's a lot more to it than just income.  Living costs, future expected earnings, how much you have saved, whether you have kids education to pay for, etc.  I would not expect $250k / year income to be enough to afford a $250k car in most instances IMO.

    Say you are 30 years old, making $250k / year.  Did you just start making $250k because you graduated from medical school and finished residency?  Chances are you have $0 to your name and probably even in debt due to school.  Maybe you live in San Francisco where a decent apartment is $4k a month.  Then $250k car is ridiculous.  You won't have enough left over to save for retirement.  And if you have to choose between taking your girlfriend to a nice dinner once a week or owning a McLaren, then you cannot afford the car.

    On the other hand, maybe you live in an area with very low housing costs, no kids, and have already saved in the 7 figures for retirement.  Buying a $250k car still doesn't make financial sense, but easier to justify in this case.

    Personally I would not buy a $250k car without making at least 7 figures a year (or have already saved enough for retirement), but it depends on a lot of circumstances.

     

    kiss I would add that the super cars typically have more performance capabilities than the talent of the driver and road that the car is driven on. Essentially burning money. As I posted before, spending $250,000 on a car doesn't make sense regardless of your income. The only reason to do so is the purchase is considered an investment. 


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Does any sportscar make sense? Does a 10k handbag make sense? A 50k watch? Nope.

    But they are fun (well, only if the wife pays for her own handbag... indecision).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Here's the new configurator. Very slick. This was created by the company of one of the members on ML. That's probably why he had a 720S to play with recently.

    https://youtu.be/niqDoK2Nuek?t=8m44s


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley
    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    And this Smiley

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-18/billionaire-griffin-said-to-pay-500-million-for-two-paintings

    Best used in the toilet while wiping your rear bumper Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Apparently 2 and 20 adds up


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley
    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    Yes Nick, that's what I was alluding to.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    No car can be used to it's full extent either, not even a Honda Accord.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    BiTurbo:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley
    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    And this Smiley

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-18/billionaire-griffin-said-to-pay-500-million-for-two-paintings

    Best used in the toilet while wiping your rear bumper Smiley

    He'll probably sell them to some other billionaire for $600M in a few years...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:
    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:

    Buying a $250k car when you make $300k a year seems like a really bad idea...

    You are safe to assume that most buyers of these cars are less wealthy / have lower income than one would expect... Most people with money have no interest in exotic cars (in a sense they would get one or even several). Buyers are mostly younger freaks, many of them spending a disproportional share of their wealth / income on cars.

    One should not forget that cars (even high-priced ones) are "cheap" compared to really expensive things... Thus they are no real sign of wealth, although this may sound strange.

    Highly disagree. You need high income to even get financing, let alone to have $300K in cash just laying around to blow on a car. I'd be willing to bet the average income of most McLaren and modern exotics as easily above $250K.

    IMHO anyone making less than a couple of million $ and buying a $250k car should have their head checked...

    In this case, most high-value car brands would be bankrupt Smiley Did you check how many people in the US make >2m US$ per year? How many even consider a high-performance sports car? See the problem Smiley

    There are plenty of families making over $1m a year... it's the USA, not France 

    Out of curiosity, what is, by your definition, the appropriate amount to be spent on a car? Leaving aside the fact, that there are certainly differences between North America, Europe and Asia in terms of income and value of money, even more so in each individual country.  On top of that, purchasing a family car on a modest income is certainly different in terms of necessity than purchasing a luxury car/item if your income leaves you a significant portion to spend on these things.

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The white 720S changed my opinion on the car. I still find the front problematic but the overall appearance of the car is very special and futuristic. Now I like it so much that I started negotiating a production slot. Playing with the price list and the configuration got me to EUR 330K (German price). That's with a lot of carbon-fibre both inside and out and almost all the extras...From what I see and read about the car it really seems to be one generation ahead of the competition.

    I got the feeling that even with the contraversial (even ugly from some angles) front this car will be a game changer for McLaren. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:
    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:

    Buying a $250k car when you make $300k a year seems like a really bad idea...

    You are safe to assume that most buyers of these cars are less wealthy / have lower income than one would expect... Most people with money have no interest in exotic cars (in a sense they would get one or even several). Buyers are mostly younger freaks, many of them spending a disproportional share of their wealth / income on cars.

    One should not forget that cars (even high-priced ones) are "cheap" compared to really expensive things... Thus they are no real sign of wealth, although this may sound strange.

    Highly disagree. You need high income to even get financing, let alone to have $300K in cash just laying around to blow on a car. I'd be willing to bet the average income of most McLaren and modern exotics as easily above $250K.

    IMHO anyone making less than a couple of million $ and buying a $250k car should have their head checked...

    In this case, most high-value car brands would be bankrupt Smiley Did you check how many people in the US make >2m US$ per year? How many even consider a high-performance sports car? See the problem Smiley

    There are plenty of families making over $1m a year... it's the USA, not France 

    There is a big difference between an annual income of 1m and 2m Smiley There are approx. 250.000 people in the US in the 1m+ bracket (based on IRS data). 5m+ is approx 10% of that (that is: 25.000 people) , so 2m+ should be somewhere in between. Most of these people are not interested in owning one or even several flashy high-performance sportscars, though Smiley

    Top 1% is $779k per year, top 0.1% is $3.9m a year, your numbers are basically correct but still somewhat under (source CNBC article dated today, I am assuming that % is based on number of tax returns). 

    I stand by my writing that there is a lot of people making $1m a year in the USA in the context of our sport cars market discussion.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Ferdie:
    SciFrog:

     

    There are plenty of families making over $1m a year... it's the USA, not France 

    Out of curiosity, what is, by your definition, the appropriate amount to be spent on a car? Leaving aside the fact, that there are certainly differences between North America, Europe and Asia in terms of income and value of money, even more so in each individual country.  On top of that, purchasing a family car on a modest income is certainly different in terms of necessity than purchasing a luxury car/item if your income leaves you a significant portion to spend on these things.

     

    Is there even an answer? So many factors. Value is different for everyone, starting with the enjoyment of any luxury purchase. But in general cars loose a lot of money and are replaced within years, unlike a bag, jewelry or a watch that you could keep your entire life. You could buy an older car and keep it but cars really do get much better with new tech.

    That said I would spend less than 10% of your total after tax income on all vehicules (that includes boats/yachts, cost being lease or interest plus depreciation). You can raise that if you own your house without mortgage and/or if your kids are self financed. Some would prioritize a vacation place over vehicules, probably a better financial decision yet usually not a very good one unless you rent it a lot which kind of defeats the idea of owning one in the first place, and overall not very good investments when true cost of ownership including long term maintenance is factored in.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    We finally made my own large contribution to mankind after years of soul searching, something much better than simply giving money to charity and directly affecting the lives of many families, with our direct control and involvement Smiley Cars have always been at the back of the line anyway but even more so now... The cost will probably cover several hypercars but where is the fun in that?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Depreciation over 5 years on a $250K exotic is about $100K. That's $20K/year, or less than $2K/month. Take home on a $250K salary is probably about $175K.

    So yup, $250K car on a $250K salary passes your test, more or less.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    That's only one car... And you forgot interest and/or opportunity cost... So not quite... Plus over 5 years it will be more like $150k depreciation from new unless it is a Ferrari 2 seater...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:

    That's only one car... And you forgot interest and/or opportunity cost... So not quite...

    So you own a $20K Honda to get to work...

    How many cars does one person need?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Wife or such? SUV for bad weather? Bigger car to go with friends or kids? There is only so long you can live alone... A tippy cal family with that income will have at least 3 cars...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Do women not work in your family?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Do women not work in your family?

    Around us? Less than 10% of the women work... Plus I would rather my wife to help raise our family than offload it to an army of nannies...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Dunno what to tell you. Women like having careers too. Most people can't afford an army of nannies and they do just fine. 10% is weirdly low. You most live in a very wealthy neighborhood. I'd say just about every woman I know has a job. I also think nannies are an excellent idea. You get a foreign nanny and then your kid ends up being fluent in another language.

    I'll break down a $250K income for you.

    1. You make $250K in year one, take home $180K.
    2. You buy an SUV for general usage. Covers bad weather, normal weather, getting work, etc. Costs $30K. You pay cash.
    3. You buy your wife the same thing if for some reason she doesn't want a career or income.
    4. Both these cars last 5-7 years, maybe longer. My moms car is 10 years old Honda is fine. I drive it often.
    5. Year two you buy a $250K exotic which you keep for a minimum of 5 years.
    6. 15 years later, your kid(s) get a DL and they need a $25K car. This is no big deal because you've made nearly $3M over the last 15 years.

    Seems fine to me.

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Since the McLaren thread is now dedicated to family budgeting, where should I look for the Handbags and Watches discussion - the Lamborghini or the Ferrari section  indecision


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Nope, those sections are for R8 facts. Best bet is to create a new thread called related to fitness and diet.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I was considering starting a new R8 thread for all things non-R8 related.  McLaren talk could fit nicely there.


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    BiTurbo:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley
    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    And this Smiley

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-18/billionaire-griffin-said-to-pay-500-million-for-two-paintings

    Best used in the toilet while wiping your rear bumper Smiley

    That's pocket change for Ken.  


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:
    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:

    Buying a $250k car when you make $300k a year seems like a really bad idea...

    You are safe to assume that most buyers of these cars are less wealthy / have lower income than one would expect... Most people with money have no interest in exotic cars (in a sense they would get one or even several). Buyers are mostly younger freaks, many of them spending a disproportional share of their wealth / income on cars.

    One should not forget that cars (even high-priced ones) are "cheap" compared to really expensive things... Thus they are no real sign of wealth, although this may sound strange.

    Highly disagree. You need high income to even get financing, let alone to have $300K in cash just laying around to blow on a car. I'd be willing to bet the average income of most McLaren and modern exotics as easily above $250K.

    IMHO anyone making less than a couple of million $ and buying a $250k car should have their head checked...

    In this case, most high-value car brands would be bankrupt Smiley Did you check how many people in the US make >2m US$ per year? How many even consider a high-performance sports car? See the problem Smiley

    There are plenty of families making over $1m a year... it's the USA, not France 

    There is a big difference between an annual income of 1m and 2m Smiley There are approx. 250.000 people in the US in the 1m+ bracket (based on IRS data). 5m+ is approx 10% of that (that is: 25.000 people) , so 2m+ should be somewhere in between. Most of these people are not interested in owning one or even several flashy high-performance sportscars, though Smiley

    Top 1% is $779k per year, top 0.1% is $3.9m a year, your numbers are basically correct but still somewhat under (source CNBC article dated today, I am assuming that % is based on number of tax returns). 

    I stand by my writing that there is a lot of people making $1m a year in the USA in the context of our sport cars market discussion.

    Income data is skewed because many privately held businesses are incorporated as S corporation, partnerships, or limited liability corporations; therefore, corporate income, not individual take home income, is passed through and taxed at individual income tax rates.  Often, the corporate income remains on the balance sheet of the entity as cash and retained net income.  This over-inflates the disposal income of that taxpayer.  Furthermore, on the sale of the business, the proceeds are recognized as non-recurring personal income.  


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    CGX car nut:
    BiTurbo:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley
    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    And this Smiley

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-18/billionaire-griffin-said-to-pay-500-million-for-two-paintings

    Best used in the toilet while wiping your rear bumper Smiley

    That's pocket change for Ken.  

    It's actually 10% of his net worth. Not exactly pocket change. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Herbaliser:
    CGX car nut:
    BiTurbo:
    nberry:
    mcdelaug:

    Which really begs the question, what are good uses of one's time beyond just being entertained?

    Contributing to mankind?Smiley

    Christian, a $10,000 purse or a $50,000 watch can be used to their full extent. Granted there are cheaper products that do the same but they can be fully used. A supercar is useless 99%of the time for 99% of the drivers. Yet, they pay for something they will never use. That's my definition of insanity.Smiley
    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

    And this Smiley

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-18/billionaire-griffin-said-to-pay-500-million-for-two-paintings

    Best used in the toilet while wiping your rear bumper Smiley

    That's pocket change for Ken.  

    It's actually 10% of his net worth. Not exactly pocket change. 

    Wouldn't rely on the published information on Griffin's net worth as the journalists have little access to all of his numerous holdings.  Consider, for example, that Griffin pulls around one billion to two USD out Citadel every year.  That doesn't include his invested capital within the Citadel or his other voluminous holdings.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    DaveGordon:

    I was considering starting a new R8 thread for all things non-R8 related.  McLaren talk could fit nicely there.

    I started to pollute the R8 thread with fun facts about baby feeding... 


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


     
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