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    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:
    Whoopsy:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CUg5TumlSG5/

    Here is something a bit unfortunate for a Plaid.

    Someone took it to Spring Mountain and tracked it. 

    Hit the wall at 140mph when the brakes failed after 3.5 laps.

    Giant horsepower number plus heavy weight needs big brakes, Plaid didn't have one that's big enough.

    So, it failed after 3,25 laps on a 2.1mile track. So it failed after about 6.8mi(11 km).

    Nordschleife is 20.832km. I'm sure the Plaid in the record had stock brakes Smiley

     

    It doesn't count like that.

    The Ring is long but there are long stretches between braking and lots of time for air to cool brakes. and A lot fo the corners aren't heavy braking ones. 

    Plaid's brake was good enough for one lap of the Ring. Give Tesla some credits, they been camping at the Ring for 2 years now just to prove they can do one lap without failing. They succeeded. and the Tesla people there are actually quite humble and are willing to listen to advices around the paddock. 

    On a normal circuit corners come at you hard and fast lap after lap. The demand is different. Tesla will need to up size the brakes and also open more brake cooling holes. Especially when their brakes carry the full load of braking duties as they don't rely on regen braking. In Porsche's hybrids the brakes only do less than 1g of braking duties, the rest is taken up by the regen part which absorbs the initial 0.3-0.4g. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CUg5TumlSG5/

    Here is something a bit unfortunate for a Plaid.

    Someone took it to Spring Mountain and tracked it. 

    Hit the wall at 140mph when the brakes failed after 3.5 laps.

    Giant horsepower number plus heavy weight needs big brakes, Plaid didn't have one that's big enough. 

    But Teslas aren't the only one that didn't put big enough brakes on their cars. I was with AMG for a driving event at Spring Mountain before, in the drivers' briefing before heading out, we were given strict instructions to 'go easy' on the brakes......

    Someone didn't quite listen and after 3 laps coming back into the pits, his SL63's front brakes were literally on fire, as in a small fire burning around the front pads. 

    Porsche aren't immune however, even when they have a reputation for oversizing their brakes. My Panamera turbo S's brakes faded at the end of a 20 min session at my track, not quite outright failed but there was noticeable fading. Not quite enough cooling.

    Brakes on a performance car should be engineered to be twice as effective as the power unit...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    6B768E72-464B-445E-8D09-C97DCC408276.jpeg

     ...time for a product recall? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Lol. Please define how many times from 200 mph to 0 a car needs to be able to stop on a racetrack without brakes fading within one hour in order to avoid being recalled or slowed down. 
    And let’s just apply these rules to non union EV companies ONLY. 
    The complaints from the hard core speed freaks here are amazingly entertaining. 


    Re: Tesla

    You get what you pay for, simple as that.


    Re: Tesla

    Nearly 5000lb vehicle on a tight racetrack, not  usually an optimal combo.


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Lol. Please define how many times from 200 mph to 0 a car needs to be able to stop on a racetrack without brakes fading within one hour in order to avoid being recalled or slowed down. 
    And let’s just apply these rules to non union EV companies ONLY. 
    The complaints from the hard core speed freaks here are amazingly entertaining. 

     

    Ford, GM, etc never marketed their EVs as 'performance' EVs. Tesla do.

    That's the difference.

    No one is going to track a Mercedes EQS or go to a drag strip with one, so it can have horrible brakes and no one would care. 

    Tesla has been taunting their amazing acceleration figures forever and market their cars as performance EVs, but acceleration is only one part of the performance package, stopping the car after is the second part, and Tesla has been avoiding the issue. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    To be fair, just a bit, they are all sedans or SUVs. The acceleration is advertised but they are street cars. The expectation is still that they obey the laws.  They make no racetrack claims about the brakes. As I recall having my Carbon brakes on my 997s - they were not even Since they have pretty standard brakes they can be upgraded but why?  I’m more than okay with my brembo bakes for street use. I doubt I will ever use half the pads over 200k miles. 
    Except for repeated race track stops the brakes on the Plaid are plenty good to stop it quickly. It is the current 0-100-0 record holder - by a lot. You don’t do that without serious stopping power. 


    Re: Tesla

    When one markets something as performance oriented, buyers would expect performance equipments. 

    The same as when you buy a can of chicken noodle soup. you would expect to find chicken and noodles inside, not just noodles with chicken soup without the chicken.


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Topspeed:
    Whoopsy:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CUg5TumlSG5/

    Here is something a bit unfortunate for a Plaid.

    Someone took it to Spring Mountain and tracked it. 

    Hit the wall at 140mph when the brakes failed after 3.5 laps.

    Giant horsepower number plus heavy weight needs big brakes, Plaid didn't have one that's big enough.

    So, it failed after 3,25 laps on a 2.1mile track. So it failed after about 6.8mi(11 km).

    Nordschleife is 20.832km. I'm sure the Plaid in the record had stock brakes Smiley

     

    It doesn't count like that.

    The Ring is long but there are long stretches between braking and lots of time for air to cool brakes. and A lot fo the corners aren't heavy braking ones. 

    Plaid's brake was good enough for one lap of the Ring. Give Tesla some credits, they been camping at the Ring for 2 years now just to prove they can do one lap without failing. They succeeded. and the Tesla people there are actually quite humble and are willing to listen to advices around the paddock. 

    On a normal circuit corners come at you hard and fast lap after lap. The demand is different. Tesla will need to up size the brakes and also open more brake cooling holes. Especially when their brakes carry the full load of braking duties as they don't rely on regen braking. In Porsche's hybrids the brakes only do less than 1g of braking duties, the rest is taken up by the regen part which absorbs the initial 0.3-0.4g. 


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    I did two relatively gentle laps on the Ring with my E63S with fresh discs all around and by the end of the second lap they were vibrating like crazy, ever since then it feels like the discs are bent when they catch a bit of heat.

    I really doubt that Tesla could do such a lap at full attack on regular brakes given the massive performance + weight.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    You get what you pay for, simple as that.

    I'm afraid so. 

    Take my Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk.

    The engine is a treat. Acceleration is insane, especially from a stop. Very EV-like.

    The automatic gearbox is a treat, it shifts extremely fast when in track mode.

    Even the chassis is quite impressive for a 2.5 t vehicle which lacks an adaptive air suspension.

    The brake system, although from Brembo and equipped with gigantic 400 mm discs in the front is...crap. By crap I mean crap. This is a 2.5 ton vehicle with over 700 horses. It deserves a much better brake system, maybe even a ceramic brake system, at least as an option. 

    American performance cars and brake systems are sometimes at odds. Same goes to interior quality sometimes but they got better. My Trackhawk has a decent interior quality, even if there is still a lot of plastic involved.

    I sometimes really wonder where these "inconsistencies" come from with US cars: Trackhawk, great engine, great gearbox, good chassis (although a an adaptive air suspension would improve high speed behavior a lot, the Trackhawk gets very scary at speeds over 270 kph) but crappy brake system. Very good sound system but crappy Uconnect entertainment system with mediocre speed and some flaws.

    I get it, they have a development budget and they have to prioritize certain features of the cars but these inconsistencies are very annoying.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    It will be interesting to see the quality of cars from Tesla in Berlin in a few months.  Still zero issues with mine. No rattles no gaps.I’m assuming my brembo brakes would cook like the track hawks after a few hot stops - so I dont use them much to keep them in reserve. 


    Re: Tesla

    Porker:
    Whoopsy:
    Topspeed:
    Whoopsy:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CUg5TumlSG5/

    Here is something a bit unfortunate for a Plaid.

    Someone took it to Spring Mountain and tracked it. 

    Hit the wall at 140mph when the brakes failed after 3.5 laps.

    Giant horsepower number plus heavy weight needs big brakes, Plaid didn't have one that's big enough.

    So, it failed after 3,25 laps on a 2.1mile track. So it failed after about 6.8mi(11 km).

    Nordschleife is 20.832km. I'm sure the Plaid in the record had stock brakes Smiley

     

    It doesn't count like that.

    The Ring is long but there are long stretches between braking and lots of time for air to cool brakes. and A lot fo the corners aren't heavy braking ones. 

    Plaid's brake was good enough for one lap of the Ring. Give Tesla some credits, they been camping at the Ring for 2 years now just to prove they can do one lap without failing. They succeeded. and the Tesla people there are actually quite humble and are willing to listen to advices around the paddock. 

    On a normal circuit corners come at you hard and fast lap after lap. The demand is different. Tesla will need to up size the brakes and also open more brake cooling holes. Especially when their brakes carry the full load of braking duties as they don't rely on regen braking. In Porsche's hybrids the brakes only do less than 1g of braking duties, the rest is taken up by the regen part which absorbs the initial 0.3-0.4g. 


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    I did two relatively gentle laps on the Ring with my E63S with fresh discs all around and by the end of the second lap they were vibrating like crazy, ever since then it feels like the discs are bent when they catch a bit of heat.

    I really doubt that Tesla could do such a lap at full attack on regular brakes given the massive performance + weight.

     

    Your 'gentle' is still pretty hardcore to most.................Smiley

    But Mercedes-AMG is another manufacturer that doesn't quite spec their brakes powerful enough. Almost there, almost. Key to saving the brakes on AMGs is to manually downshift and use more of the engine braking to take the load off the brakes a bit. Makes a good bit of difference. 

    I see all sorts of cars coming though our track for the last 5 years. For production cars, only Porsches (minus the Panamera turbo S) don't have brake problems. Even a Cayenne turbo S was fine, I did a full 20 min session on my previous Cayenne and no brake fade even at the end. The other would be the Camaros with 1LE package, they did launch the car at our track and got thrashed around by press with no problems. Miatas, surprisingly, do quite well also. 


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    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:

    You get what you pay for, simple as that.

    I'm afraid so. 

    Take my Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk.

    The engine is a treat. Acceleration is insane, especially from a stop. Very EV-like.

    The automatic gearbox is a treat, it shifts extremely fast when in track mode.

    Even the chassis is quite impressive for a 2.5 t vehicle which lacks an adaptive air suspension.

    The brake system, although from Brembo and equipped with gigantic 400 mm discs in the front is...crap. By crap I mean crap. This is a 2.5 ton vehicle with over 700 horses. It deserves a much better brake system, maybe even a ceramic brake system, at least as an option. 

    American performance cars and brake systems are sometimes at odds. Same goes to interior quality sometimes but they got better. My Trackhawk has a decent interior quality, even if there is still a lot of plastic involved.

    I sometimes really wonder where these "inconsistencies" come from with US cars: Trackhawk, great engine, great gearbox, good chassis (although a an adaptive air suspension would improve high speed behavior a lot, the Trackhawk gets very scary at speeds over 270 kph) but crappy brake system. Very good sound system but crappy Uconnect entertainment system with mediocre speed and some flaws.

    I get it, they have a development budget and they have to prioritize certain features of the cars but these inconsistencies are very annoying.

     

    It's just the mentality. 

    Big 3 had been making cars forever. Tesla was the only new one until recently. but it is the poster boy of the essence of what the Americans wanted. 

    Great acceleration up to their highway speed, and public will pay for that performance while overlooking interior fit and finish. The rest of the 'performance envelope' consists of having the car stop good enough at the end of a 1/4 drag strip and enough turning ability to make the 180 at the end. 

    This never changed since the muscle car era of the 60s. Boomers got 'spoiled' by that and its what they looked for. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Stop with the myths please. For the street the tesla is missing nothing in the Performance category. It smokes the M3 or the C63.  165mph is fast enough for me, it hits its range figures at 75 mph and all that build quality stuff is now old news. Reliability is outstanding and resale value is superb not to mention safety.  You can pretend all your points are true but the reality is not even close.  The whole sales experience alone is enough to turn me off the others. Lastly I would not ever buy a car now which does not drive itself at least as well as the Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla

    I did the R8 introduction on the little Vancouver Island track, all day, around and around. No problems with brakes at all.


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Stop with the myths please. For the street the tesla is missing nothing in the Performance category. It smokes the M3 or the C63.  165mph is fast enough for me, it hits its range figures at 75 mph and all that build quality stuff is now old news. Reliability is outstanding and resale value is superb not to mention safety.  You can pretend all your points are true but the reality is not even close.  The whole sales experience alone is enough to turn me off the others. Lastly I would not ever buy a car now which does not drive itself at least as well as the Tesla.  

     

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    Standard canned answer from Tesla fans about facts being myths. SmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    Teslas were built to a particular performance target. Very quick acceleration to North American highway speed and for it's intended purpose as a North American city car, it hits it's range figure. They also turn well enough to negotiate street corners. Brakes good enough for city duties. For real highway usage it falls short but it's not built to be a highway cruiser (I don't think there is one real world review that shows a Tesla hitting it's EPA rating on the highway 🤔). Range for European, especially German Autobahn, isn't ideal but Europeans, and the RoW, isn't it's design target audience. 

    It's the perfect car for one particular segment of people that's for sure. The sales figures don't lie. 


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    Re: Tesla

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-16/musk-s-solarcity-trial-nears-conclusion-with-2-billion-at-stake

    If the USA wants to prove they are getting rid of the old boys' club, Musk should be found guilty and liable for the amount sued, Plus a putative damage amount say 5-10 times that to the government, that way the 'tax-the-rich' headline go through and everyone can breath again.

    Tesla would then be flushed with cash. And corporate heads would be deterred to do similar things in the future. 

    Heck, slap a either/or 20 year jail sentence in there too.

    The Solar City deal was nothing other than a bail out of his cousin's company AND SpaceX. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    So the hate is pretty serious if you want to rob someone of 20 years of their life. As though Musk has hurt lots of his stockholders over the years. Oh my oh my. He is Bernie Madoff 2.0.  That’s just ridiculous. Have you read anything about the actual trial?  I loved how Elon called the opposing counsel a criminal and liar. Awesome stuff. 
    My cars hits 4 miles per kWh all day long at 75 mph.  When compared to driving my old turbo it is far more capable in every respect. It’s ridiculous to not try it and see for yourselves folks.  End the FUD 

    Hi Whoopsy!  Cheers!  Hope you are back from Europe safe and sound. 


    Re: Tesla

    Many criminals got sentenced for 15-20 years doing crimes that 'seems' harmless too. 

    There are laws that clearly states how and what company heads can do and cannot do. If Elon broke those laws, then he should be sentenced accordingly. He got away with enough already. it's only fair. Nothing personal against him or anything. Law is law. I would say the same thing if that was Obama, Clinton or Trump.

     

     

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Many criminals got sentenced for 15-20 years doing crimes that 'seems' harmless too. 

    There are laws that clearly states how and what company heads can do and cannot do. If Elon broke those laws, then he should be sentenced accordingly. He got away with enough already. it's only fair. Nothing personal against him or anything. Law is law. I would say the same thing if that was Obama, Clinton or Trump.

     

     

     

     

    Wow. The only shareholders he has hurt are the ones who sold his stock. Or the shorts.   We will see what the verdict holds in store for him.  Politically he is clearly as hated as Trump which tells you everything you need to know about politics. Politics is now seemingly the science of turning objective reality on its head. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Many criminals got sentenced for 15-20 years doing crimes that 'seems' harmless too. 

    There are laws that clearly states how and what company heads can do and cannot do. If Elon broke those laws, then he should be sentenced accordingly. He got away with enough already. it's only fair. Nothing personal against him or anything. Law is law. I would say the same thing if that was Obama, Clinton or Trump.

     

     

     

     

    Wow. The only shareholders he has hurt are the ones who sold his stock. Or the shorts.   We will see what the verdict holds in store for him.  Politically he is clearly as hated as Trump which tells you everything you need to know about politics. Politics is now seemingly the science of turning objective reality on its head. 

     

    Who, or what got hurt has no bearing. The law is the law. Numerous people had used that defence on insider trading trials and failed. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    And here is a $137 million verdict against Tesla 

    https://fortune.com/2021/10/05/tesla-137-million-judgement-lawsuit-workplace-racism-case-owen-diaz/


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    And here is a $137 million verdict against Tesla 

    https://fortune.com/2021/10/05/tesla-137-million-judgement-lawsuit-workplace-racism-case-owen-diaz/

    Congratulations Whoopsy!  I feel like I just watched you get a $137 million present. I’m happy for you and happy the system worked. 
    cheers 🥂 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    And here is a $137 million verdict against Tesla 

    https://fortune.com/2021/10/05/tesla-137-million-judgement-lawsuit-workplace-racism-case-owen-diaz/

    Congratulations Whoopsy!  I feel like I just watched you get a $137 million present. I’m happy for you and happy the system worked. 
    cheers 🥂 

     

    Just writing something for argument sake? 

    I didn't make the laws and rules, your own government did. And Tesla is found to have been guilty. Nothing more. Is 137 mil harsh like a 20 yr prison sentence in your book? Maybe. But that's how punitive damage works, it has to be severe enough to deter someone else from doing it again. 

    if Elon only gets a tiny fine or some BS probation, he will keep doing it. Heck for all I care, they can sentence him to the electric chair for his wrong doings if proven in court. That way other CEOs will think twice, or 3 times or more before even thinking about doing something illegal. SEC let Elon off too easy last time around, only making him giving up the President role. They should have mandated that he gives up the CEO role also. Which would have also means he severed his astronomical pay package, which by this point in time his 'careless' tweets cost him over $150 billion. He would surely learn his lesson about careless tweets when he gets his CEO chair back. 

    You want to know why there are less criminals in China than in the USA? Death penalty. And they don't simmer someone in jail for 20 years before killing them either. US legal system is a bit too lenient to criminals. 

    Heck, if you give me dictatorship for one day on policies on the whole Earth, I would established a law that states mandatory death penalty, carry out within 48hrs, for all corrupted politicians, all politicians with secret agenda, all politicians that use their political power for personal gains and also applies to all heads of companies. The 'Communist China' policy, with a grace period of 1 week for all guilty party to admit their guilt in public. Not even head of states are exempt. it's going to be entertaining for that one whole week to watch everyone in politics and public companies rolling over everyone to state their crimes. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    I was actually being serious. Not sarcastic. 
    For me a death penalty is a total no go. Never. I don’t kill people nor do I want others to do it for me. Ever. Never. Not a good thing.   Let’s vote well instead. And no, now you can’t have my vote. 


    Re: Tesla

    Necessary evil. 


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    Re: Tesla

    https://insideevs.com/news/539857/tesla-modely-volkswagen-id6-crash/

    Short version: The ID6 cleaned house against the Model Y.

    VW's passenger cell remains intact, driver door is openable, floor plan is fine and the battery module basically comes out pristine. 

    Tesla didn't fare so well. the passenger cell is distorted enough that the driver's door is completely jammed shut. Driver side rear door is openable but obstructed by the jammed driver's door. The driver would have been trapped inside the car. A pillar is crumbled and floor plan was buckled. The battery module is also crumbled but no fire. The front crash structure was inadequate to absorb enough force hence the rest were transmitted to the passenger cell.

    Driver and rear passenger inside each car also experienced less force inside the ID6 than the Model Y. All occupants would ave survived the accidents but chance of more severe injuries inside the Tesla. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Thanks for the information.  Wonder if there are some manufacturing differences between the NA and China versions of the Model Y.  The damaged battery pack in the Tesla is disturbing as an incident with a slightly higher impact velocity could easily become a conflagration.  


    Re: Tesla

    Form a Model 3 owning Youtube blogger.

    And he is ordering a Taycan. 

    EQS is the best for everyday driving.

    Lucid Air is the all around choice.

    Plaid will be for those that frequent the drag strips. 


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    Re: Tesla

    All of them worse than hydrogen Toyota Mirai.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


     
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