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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I don’t know about your power lines but good luck with this hacking thing. In reality my car charges for about an hour a day.   The rest of the time it is ready to go with 90% range. Never send any time driving to gas stations and such. You always forget the drive and risk getting there. In all kinds of weather. Plus the five or seven minutes. Once a week or so. 
    I know people don’t get it until they do it.  I only tell this secret to my very special friends so they know  


    Check out virtual power plants. Also - free enterprise will more quickly meet any demand for power. And at a price that is cheap. 
    I get the mindset. Also get that many are in no hurry to change the mindset or let it change. I get the logic behind that. It’s a transition. 
    Sony introduced an EV. They are not stuck with ICE investment so they would be interesting to watch. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1301747460587560960?s=20

    Im not sure any auto maker stands a chance! I love my Porsches, but Elon is the manangryangryangry


    Re: Tesla Roadster

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQOf_F6hibk

    Tesla says these systems will improve over time, but it's unclear whether or not they're worth the hefty $8,000 price tag at this point.

    Despite the name, the full self-driving suite of features doesn't make the car self-driving at this point and doesn't provide much real benefit for customers.

    Tesla collects data from those who buy it to help improve the system, but using developing technology like this on the road does not come without risk for you and other drivers.

    We reached out to Tesla for comment regarding these issues,  but did not receive a reply.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    rhino:

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1301747460587560960?s=20

    Im not sure any auto maker stands a chance! I love my Porsches, but Elon is the manangryangryangry

    Thank Gwynn Shotwell and her team at SpaceX.  Musk just supplied the initial round of capital.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Topspeed:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQOf_F6hibk

     

    Tesla says these systems will improve over time, but it's unclear whether or not they're worth the hefty $8,000 price tag at this point.

    Despite the name, the full self-driving suite of features doesn't make the car self-driving at this point and doesn't provide much real benefit for customers.

    Tesla collects data from those who buy it to help improve the system, but using developing technology like this on the road does not come without risk for you and other drivers.

    We reached out to Tesla for comment regarding these issues,  but did not receive a reply.

     

    What’s the problem? It’s more capable than 75% of the drivers on the road. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    D039BAAF-90E5-4BDB-A9B5-162A0B6DED65.jpegLook who I found on the way west down i70 in Hays KS. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The ability for the car to drive itself down the highway can not be overstated. The Tesla does this beautifully. I drove about 1% of the time and spent the rest of the drive relaxing and watching out for hazards.  Beautiful drive. Any car which can’t match this ability is way behind.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Why would anyone want their car to drive itself down the road is beyond me reasoning wise 🤷🏻‍♂️


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It is reported that Elon flew all the way to Germany to meet with VW boss Herbert Diess. it is also reported that he test drove one of the I.D cars.

    Perhaps he is trying to license VAG's 800V system.  Or at least try to strike a deal on making low cost EVs.

    We know that's the one short coming of Tesla's cars, they are stuck on last generation 400V system. And their are aren't economical price wise in Europe.

    The line of thinking being one goes to someone if one wants to ask for something, not the other way around.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Why would anyone want their car to drive itself down the road is beyond me reasoning wise 🤷🏻‍♂️

     Ever use cruise control?  I never did on any of my long drives. It was like a runaway train. The Tesla on the other hand quickly makes you ask why the simple task of driving down the highway has not been perfected by everyone. It is really perfect for long drives.  Ten hour drive starting at 4:30am and I feel totally fresh and ready for a late night with friends. 
    There is no way I would seriously consider any car which could not do this at least as well. Why you would trade this for an overwrought interior with unnecessary switches puzzles me.  I never even used the brakes today. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Btw that was Blake Fuller and his Pikes Peak winning model 3 driving back to Florida. And of course my wife waving at RCs wife on the jet ski. She is pissed to not be in Dubai. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Why would anyone want their car to drive itself down the road is beyond me reasoning wise 🤷🏻‍♂️

     Ever use cruise control?  I never did on any of my long drives. It was like a runaway train. The Tesla on the other hand quickly makes you ask why the simple task of driving down the highway has not been perfected by everyone. It is really perfect for long drives.  Ten hour drive starting at 4:30am and I feel totally fresh and ready for a late night with friends. 
    There is no way I would seriously consider any car which could not do this at least as well. Why you would trade this for an overwrought interior with unnecessary switches puzzles me.  I never even used the brakes today. 

     

    30+ years driving, never ever used cruise control once. Not even on 2000 miles road trips.

    It is stupid to use those automated stuff while driving. It makes the driver less engaged and bad things happen when driver is not fully engaged at the task of driving. The secret to staying alert on long drives is to vary the speed, go up and down the speed range. and If I start getting tired, that means it's time to take a break. 

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It never used cruise either but you don’t have an idea what you are talking about when it comes to long drives. It actually keeps you more rested and awake. Why you want to endanger yourself by doing all the work is silly.  You are living in the past. Big time. Give it time your words will not hold up well.  
    In no time buying a car that does not do this will be like having to pedal a bike. 
    And the safety stats don’t lie. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Why would anyone want their car to drive itself down the road is beyond me reasoning wise 🤷🏻‍♂️

     Ever use cruise control?  I never did on any of my long drives. It was like a runaway train. The Tesla on the other hand quickly makes you ask why the simple task of driving down the highway has not been perfected by everyone. It is really perfect for long drives.  Ten hour drive starting at 4:30am and I feel totally fresh and ready for a late night with friends. 
    There is no way I would seriously consider any car which could not do this at least as well. Why you would trade this for an overwrought interior with unnecessary switches puzzles me.  I never even used the brakes today. 

    30+ years driving, never ever used cruise control once. Not even on 2000 miles road trips.

    It is stupid to use those automated stuff while driving. It makes the driver less engaged and bad things happen when driver is not fully engaged at the task of driving. The secret to staying alert on long drives is to vary the speed, go up and down the speed range. and If I start getting tired, that means it's time to take a break. 

    I am using the adaptive cruise control in our Audi on highways and I find that it adds a level of security above the human senses. The automated braking to avoid collision saved me from an accident. I think you need both. That humans are able to drive without accidents I don’t think we need to argue about. One split second distraction is all it takes.


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    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    “Tesla's 'Full Self-Driving Capability' Falls Short of Its Name” (Consumer Reports)  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    The $8,000 option doesn’t make the car self-driving, though it does offer a host of advanced features. CR evaluated all of them...

    (4 September 2020)

    The features might be cutting edge, even cool, but we think buyers should be wary of shelling out $8,000 for what electric car company Tesla calls its Full Self-Driving Capability option. Tesla claims every new vehicle it builds includes all the hardware necessary to be fully autonomous, and the company says that through future over-the-air software updates, its cars should eventually be capable of driving themselves.

    But for now, Full Self-Driving Capability, which includes features that can assist the driver with parking, changing lanes on the highway, and even coming to a complete halt at traffic lights and stop signs, remains a misnomer.

    Tesla has distinguished itself from other carmakers for almost a decade by building sleek electric cars with industry-leading driving ranges and by developing new technology aimed at one day creating a fully autonomous, self-driving car. Though it has made significant strides in automated driving, owners should not rely on Tesla’s driver assistance features to necessarily add safety or to make driving easier, based on Consumer Reports’ extensive testing and experience. 

    “Despite the name, the Full Self-Driving Capability suite requires significant driver attention to ensure that these developing-technology features don’t introduce new safety risks to the driver, or other vehicles out on the road,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports. “Not only that, in our evaluations we determined that several of the features don’t provide much in the way of real benefits to customers, despite the extremely high purchase price.” 

    We assessed the Full Self-Driving Capability features on Tesla vehicles we previously purchased for our regular testing program. The features, each designed to work only in certain situations, such as in a private parking lot or during highway driving, can be turned on and off by the driver. We put each feature in the suite to the test, and the results, detailed below, were mixed, to say the least. 

    We contacted Tesla with a series of questions for this article, and the company did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

    Highlights From Our Testing

    • Most features within Tesla’s Full Self-Driving Capability suite worked inconsistently, including the Autopark self-parking system that has been around for several years. Sometimes it would recognize a parking space as suitable, and we’d park in it. But when we drove by the same space again later, it was as if the parking spot didn’t exist. It also often didn’t park straight between the parking lines.
    • Smart Summon, which allows the car to drive remotely to a location within a private parking lot, would sometimes drive on the wrong side of parking lot driving lanes, and it didn’t always stop at stop signs in the lot.
    • Navigate on Autopilot, when activated, allows a Tesla traveling on the highway to autonomously take on- and off-ramps and make lane changes as long as a destination has been programmed into the navigation system. We found the performance to be inconsistent, with the system sometimes ignoring exit ramps on the set route, driving in the carpool lane, and staying in the passing lane for long periods of time. The feature also would completely disengage at times for no apparent reason.
    • Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control is designed to come to a complete stop at all stoplights, even when they are green, unless the driver overrides the system. We found several problems with this system, including the basic idea that it goes against normal driving practice for a car to start slowing to a stop for a green light. At times, it also drove through stop signs, slammed on the brakes for yield signs even when the merge was clear, and stopped at every exit while going around a traffic circle.

    Tesla’s active driving assistance systems are split into two parts: The first, Autopilot - which includes adaptive cruise control (Tesla refers to this as Traffic-Aware Cruise Control) and lane keeping assistance capabilities (Autosteer in Tesla terminology) - is now standard on every new Tesla. 

    For this evaluation, we focused on the optional Full Self-Driving Capability suite of driving assistance systems: Autopark, Auto Lane Change, Summon, Smart Summon, Navigate on Autopilot, and Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control.

    Below, we explain each feature in the suite, its intended use, and how each performed in our tests. 

    How We Did the Testing

    We ran our tests of the Full Self-Driving Capability features at various times of the day, in a variety of weather conditions, and in many different locations. We also made sure we had the most up-to-date hardware and software available, which during our testing was version 2020.24.6.4 running on Hardware 3. This is important to note, because Tesla’s over-the-air software updates can alter the way these features perform.

    The first three features we evaluated for this story—Autopark, Auto Lane Change, and Summon—have been around for a few years, and some have improved over that time. However, Tesla’s most recent features—Smart Summon, Navigate on Autopilot, and Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control—gave us some significant concerns about their usefulness and safety.

    Autopark

    Autopark “helps automatically parallel or perpendicular park your car, with a single touch,” according to information on Tesla’s website.  

    Here’s how the system works: As you cruise by either a regular or parallel parking spot in a parking lot, a “P” will pop up on the center display screen indicating that the system has found an appropriate spot. Tap the “P” on the touch screen and shift the gear selector into Reverse, and the system will automatically handle everything involved with parking the car, including steering and braking. 

    We found that it often worked as advertised, but other times it had difficulty engaging. In those cases, it wouldn’t recognize spots that seemed appropriate as you drove past them. This is a problem because you can’t “force” the system to work—it has to recognize an appropriate spot on its own. There seemed to be no consistent reason for it to sometimes recognize a parking spot as we drove by it and then not notice the exact same spot on another drive-by. Similar features have been around for years on cars from other automakers, and they can suffer from the same problems.

    “Autopark also often didn’t park straight between the lines, to the point that we’d be embarrassed of ourselves if we got out of the car and realized we parked in such a cockeyed fashion,” says Kelly Funkhouser, head of connected and automated vehicle testing at CR.

    Auto Lane Change

    While not unique to Tesla vehicles, this feature is straightforward and works as advertised. It “assists in moving to an adjacent lane on the highway when Autosteer is engaged,” according to Tesla.  

    If the driver hits the turn-signal stalk to change lanes when Autopilot is activated, the car will perform the lane-change maneuver without any steering input needed from the driver. An animation appears on screen that shows where the car will move to, and it will wait to make the lane change if there is a car in the lane you want to move into. 

    “Ultimately, though, the safety of each lane change is still the driver’s responsibility,” Fisher says.

    Summon

    This feature is designed to allow the car to drive a short distance forward or backward without a driver behind the wheel. Summon “moves your car in and out of a tight space using the mobile app or key,” according to Tesla’s website. 

    When using the Tesla app on a smartphone, you can direct the car slowly forward or backward into a spot by pressing the corresponding button on the phone or key fob, and it can even be programmed to open and close your garage door. We found that it did, in fact, perform these functions, and we did some tests to mimic squeezing the car into a fairly tight parking spot between cars that were crowding the parking lane lines slightly, and it was able to complete the maneuver. 

    It works inconsistently, though. Our testers found that sometimes the system would line up well within the parking space but then back only halfway into the spot, leaving part of the car sticking out. Other times it would pull into the parking spot at an angle and call it a day. 

    It’s logical to think that Summon’s most practical use is to help deal with tight parking spaces so that you won’t have to squeeze yourself into or out of the car. However, the owner’s manual of CR’s Tesla Model 3 says that “parking in a narrow space limits the ability of the sensors to accurately detect the location of obstacles, increasing the risk of damage to Model 3 and/or surrounding objects.”

    “Unfortunately, Tesla doesn’t give a best-use case for Summon, which leaves us perplexed as to what the system is really intended for if it’s not for parking in tight spaces—other than to impress your friends that your car can drive remotely,” Funkhouser says. “You also need to keep a very close eye on the car during these maneuvers to make sure it doesn’t run into anything.” 

    Smart Summon

    As the name implies, Smart Summon is intended to be a considerably more advanced feature than regular Summon. Tesla says it is “designed to allow your car to drive to you or a location of your choosing.” Tesla’s website further states that with Smart Summon, “your car will navigate more complex environments and parking spaces, maneuvering around objects as necessary to come find you in a parking lot.”

    Using the Tesla smartphone app, the driver can either pinpoint a destination spot on the map for the car, or have the car drive to them using the Come to Me button.

    We tried out Smart Summon in a number of scenarios, including the parking lot at CR headquarters in Yonkers, N.Y. Overall, the system proved to be unreliable. At times it would take overly complicated routes to reach us, and in other situations it might get stuck on an incline, then deactivate completely. 

    Even when Smart Summon was able to arrive at the specified location, it would spend time in the wrong lane of the parking lot, not pause for parking-lot stop signs, or take wide turns and head toward parked cars and then drive in Reverse to avoid a collision, as shown in the animation above. These are all situations that could cause confusion to other drivers, as well as be a potential hazard for any pedestrians in the car’s path.

    Tesla states clearly on its website that “Smart Summon is only intended for use in private parking lots and driveways. You are still responsible for your car and must monitor it and its surroundings at all times and be within your line of sight because it may not detect all obstacles.” Private parking lots can include those for stores or restaurants, which means you can think of Smart Summon as your own personal valet service.

    We can see the benefits of this feature, for instance having your car drive to meet you and your groceries near the store entrance on a rainy day. But Tesla doesn’t have all the bugs worked out yet, our testing shows. “At times it appeared erratic,” Funkhouser says. “We think after a customer experiences the system’s inconsistent behavior, they will likely not use it again.” 

    Navigate on Autopilot

    This feature expands the existing Autopilot system, adding the ability for a Tesla that’s traveling on the highway to take on- and off-ramps, and make lane changes without driver input when a destination has been programmed into the car’s navigation system. It “actively guides your car from a highway’s on-ramp to off-ramp, including suggesting lane changes, navigating interchanges, automatically engaging the turn signal and taking the correct exit,” according to Tesla.

    While the system can, in fact, do all of those things, it was far from consistent. In one case, the system completely ignored the exit it was supposed to take; this not only put our tester off of their route but also stuck the car in a carpool lane with only one person in the vehicle. 

    In another example, the system suddenly disengaged, causing confusion for our driver in a heavily trafficked area with an on-ramp quickly approaching. Yet it’s in situations exactly like this that a driver needs to be focused on the environment around them, not distracted with a driving feature suddenly having an problem.    

    We also found that Navigate on Autopilot would occasionally leave us driving in the passing lane on a highway for long periods of time, when the safest course of action—not to mention proper lane etiquette and some state laws—requires moving back over to the center or right lane in that situation.  

    We are also concerned that Navigate on Autopilot can allow a driver to set the feature to automatically make lane changes on its own, without the driver activating the turn-signal stalk and without the system giving a warning to the driver that a lane change is about to happen.

    “The setting that allows the driver to turn off the system’s lane-change confirmations and warnings is worrying, if not downright dangerous,” Fisher says. “It could lead to drivers becoming startled by an unexpected and unsafe lane change while driving at highway speeds.” 

    Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

    This is the most recent feature to join the Full Self-Driving Capability package, and it is used in conjunction with adaptive cruise control and lane keeping assistance. Tesla says when Autopilot is engaged, this system “identifies stop signs and traffic lights and automatically slows your car to a stop on approach, with your active supervision.” If an intersection is clear, the driver can tap the accelerator pedal or pull down on the gear selector stalk to keep the car going. 

    By Tesla’s own design, this feature will bring the car to a complete stop at any traffic light, regardless of whether the light is red, yellow, or green. The only time the Tesla will drive through a green light without stopping on its own is if there is a lead vehicle in front that it can follow through the light—or if you override the system. 

    In addition to the fact that it goes against normal driving etiquette for a car to start slowing to a stop for a green light, we also found that our Tesla would occasionally hit the brakes too far away from a stop sign, causing our driver to have to keep hitting the accelerator pedal or the gear selector stalk multiple times to move the car all the way to the stop sign. In other circumstances, the car simply wouldn’t recognize the stop sign at all, forcing our tester to have to hit the brakes to avoid driving right through the stop sign and into the intersection, as shown in the animation above.

    The system also had problems navigating a roundabout, stopping at each exit as it went around the traffic circle. Other times it would slam on the brakes when approaching a yield sign, even if the merge was clear. 

    “In its current iteration, we think Tesla’s Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control will create more confusion and distraction for the driver,” Fisher says.

    Beta Testing

    Tesla labels the Navigate on Autopilot and Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control features as “Beta” on the center display screen, which usually means the computer software is still in development. While you do have to opt in to use these features, our testing demonstrated a number of problems with using them in everyday driving.

    For this article, we asked Tesla in an email for its definition of Beta and we asked how a driver can tell what separates features listed as Beta from those that are not. Tesla did not respond. 

    “Tesla has repeatedly rolled out crude beta features, some of which can put people’s safety at risk and shouldn’t be used anywhere but on a private test track or proving ground,” says William Wallace, manager of safety policy for Consumer Reports. 

    Tesla says these features will improve over time, but at this point they don’t seem worth the hefty $8,000 price tag.

    “It seems like Tesla is focused on being the automaker with the most features rather than ensuring that the features work well,” Funkhouser says. “Its time and energy could be better spent on developing a driver monitoring system for Autopilot to significantly improve the safety and usefulness of that system.”

    Tesla collects data from those who buy its cars to help improve it, but using developing technology like this on the road does not come without risk for you and other drivers. We’ll continue to evaluate these and other active driving assistance systems as they are available.

    Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQOf_F6hibk

    Link: https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/tesla-full-self-driving-capability-review-falls-short-of-its-name/

    Smiley 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If anyone still does not understand that Tesla is developing this system it is due to willful ignorance.  Everyone paying for this understands the system is not currently self driving.  Everyone also understands that the system will keep being improved which is included in the price.  As the system is perfected the cost will increase a lot more. 
    As of now there is no one close to Tesla. It is also one of the biggest benefits of having an EV.  An EV which does not do this is just a car with an electric motor. ICE cars will not be able to do this. Ever. It would be a waste of time. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    If anyone still does not understand that Tesla is developing this system it is due to willful ignorance.  Everyone paying for this understands the system is not currently self driving.  Everyone also understands that the system will keep being improved which is included in the price.  As the system is perfected the cost will increase a lot more. 
    As of now there is no one close to Tesla. It is also one of the biggest benefits of having an EV.  An EV which does not do this is just a car with an electric motor. ICE cars will not be able to do this. Ever. It would be a waste of time. 

    The new Mercedes S class will be best-of-class car in terms of self driving, but only up to 60kph in a first step Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    If anyone still does not understand that Tesla is developing this system it is due to willful ignorance.  Everyone paying for this understands the system is not currently self driving.  Everyone also understands that the system will keep being improved which is included in the price.  As the system is perfected the cost will increase a lot more. 
    As of now there is no one close to Tesla. It is also one of the biggest benefits of having an EV.  An EV which does not do this is just a car with an electric motor. ICE cars will not be able to do this. Ever. It would be a waste of time. 

    BE044282-3D90-4BBB-9C10-5C29BA867570.png

    ...which begs the question Leawood - given your overt predilection for Tesla - why did you not select the Full Self Drive option? Smiley

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Audi, for example, has curtailed the release of its SAE Level 3 autonomous driver's aids not because of technical deficiencies but because of regulatory hurdles.  One is surprised that Mercedes, with less available legal resources, believes it can overcome those immense hurdles.  The United States does not allow the German automakers to operate the dynamic headlight functions on its cars as it violates lighting standards set in 1965 that requires separate driver controls for high beams.  Audi tried a couple of years ago to have the U.S. regulations amended and lost to the ever powerful to the drive-in theater lobby. 

    Audi's autonomous driving technologies was on full display ten years ago when a self-driving Audi TTS ascended Pikes Peak.  Reproduced below is a Wired.com article on Audi's then autonomous driving technology.

    Audi’s Robotic Car Climbs Pikes Peak

    Chuck Squatriglia

    Racing to the top of Pikes Peak is a harrowing experience that tests the skill of the best drivers. Audi’s managed to make the run in a car that has no driver.

    Audi’s autonomous TTS conquered the same 12.42-mile course guys like Nobuhiro “Monster” Tajima climb when competing in the world-famous Pikes Peak International Hill Climb. Race organizers certified the run, which was made in September but not announced until today.

    The car made five runs during a week of testing, reaching the 14,100-foot summit in 27 minutes. The very fastest drivers — in cars putting down more than 900 horsepower — do it in 10 minutes and change, so clearly the car isn’t terribly fast. But the point isn’t the speed, it’s the fact there was no one at the wheel. According to Audi, race officials said an expert driver in car like the TTS would complete the course in around 17 minutes.

    The point of this exercise is to push autonomous-vehicle tech to the edge and make cars the rest of us drive that much smarter and safer. By making it to the top of Pikes Peak, Audi said it is showing that autonomous technology can handle the most challenging circumstances.

    “By partnering with leading institutions in Silicon Valley we seek to bring innovative technologies into our vehicles and redefine what is possible,” said Dr. Burkhard Huhnke, director of the Electronic Research Lab in Palo Alto, California, which developed the car with Audi. “The goal is to improve driver safety and save lives by creating extremely robust electronics.”

    Nobody’s talking about taking you out of the equation. Audi has told us repeatedly the the goal is developing technology to enhance even the best drivers’ abilities, much like the computerized systems in a modern jet assist the best pilots.

    “We are not trying to replace the driver,” Stanford professor Chris Gerdes said. “Instead we want to learn how the best drivers control the car so we can develop systems that assist our robotic driver and, eventually, you and me.”

    Shelley, earlier this year at Bonneville.

    Audi developed the car with help from Stanford University at Volkswagen’s Electronics Research Lab. We’ve taken a ride in this car and can tell you it almost certainly drives at least as well as you do and probably better.

    It builds on the success of Stanley, a VW Touareg that won the DARPA Grand Challenge in 2005, and Junior, a VW Passat that took second in the DARPA Urban Challenge in 2007. Those vehicles used radar, sensors and cameras to track the road at relatively low speed on a closed and controlled course.

    Audi named this car Shelley in honor of Michèle Mouton, an Audi rally driver and the first woman to win at Pikes Peak. The team chose a 2010 TTS because it features a fly-by-wire throttle, adaptive cruise control, a semiautomatic DSG gearbox and other gadgetry. That made it relatively easy to make the car fully autonomous using advanced algorithms, the Oracle Java real-Time System, Oracle Solaris and GPS.

    Shelley uses differential GPS to track its location to within 2 centimeters, though the margin was larger on the mountain. Wheel-speed sensors and an accelerometer measure its velocity and a gyroscope controls equilibrium and direction. The algorithms that make it all work run on hardware developed by Sun Microsystems.

    Deciding to test the tech at Pikes Peak was a no-brainer. It’s a mix of pavement, dirt and gravel that rises 4,721 feet at an average grade of 7 percent. The testing was marred by the crash of a helicopter filming and photographing the run. Four people were injured.

    Now that Audi has conquered the mountain, it plans to do some high-speed runs on pavement to further refine the technology. It is currently evaluating several tracks. Might we suggest the Nürburgring Nordschleife?

    Photos and video: Audi

     

    Here’s some video from our visit to the Electronics Research Lab and our time with Shelley the autonomous TTS. Video: Wired.com

    See Also:


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This mirrors my experience with these kind of systems. They work well in 90% of use-cases but fail in more complex scenarios. I don’t know whether that’s due to technical limitations or regulation though. 
    As a driver I find these driving aids in their current form really intrusive and would not spec them when ordering a new car. I don’t want my car to break or steer on its own unless I specifically ask it to do so. To be honest I actually feel less safe in cars that have these aids on by default because I’m not really fully in control anymore. I can see the benefit of a fully autonomous car but I think it will take another decade before I can enter my car drunk and tell it to take me home with basically 0 risk of crashing. 
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Leawood911:

    If anyone still does not understand that Tesla is developing this system it is due to willful ignorance.  Everyone paying for this understands the system is not currently self driving.  Everyone also understands that the system will keep being improved which is included in the price.  As the system is perfected the cost will increase a lot more. 
    As of now there is no one close to Tesla. It is also one of the biggest benefits of having an EV.  An EV which does not do this is just a car with an electric motor. ICE cars will not be able to do this. Ever. It would be a waste of time. 

    BE044282-3D90-4BBB-9C10-5C29BA867570.png

    ...which begs the question Leawood - given your overt predilection for Tesla - why did you not select the Full Self Drive option? Smiley

     

    Excellent question. I find the auto steer to be all I need for now and since I think full self driving will not be perfected by the time I sell the car. At some point it will be cheaper. Much cheaper. Also it will be available for weekends or long drives by subscription soon if I really want it. 
    Of all the systems on the chart which has driven the most miles?  And gained the most experience?  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tim:

    This mirrors my experience with these kind of systems. They work well in 90% of use-cases but fail in more complex scenarios. I don’t know whether that’s due to technical limitations or regulation though. 
    As a driver I find these driving aids in their current form really intrusive and would not spec them when ordering a new car. I don’t want my car to break or steer on its own unless I specifically ask it to do so. To be honest I actually feel less safe in cars that have these aids on by default because I’m not really fully in control anymore. I can see the benefit of a fully autonomous car but I think it will take another decade before I can enter my car drunk and tell it to take me home with basically 0 risk of crashing. 
     

     

    This. Smiley

    Just do a mic drop and exit stage right Tim.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    It never used cruise either but you don’t have an idea what you are talking about when it comes to long drives. It actually keeps you more rested and awake. Why you want to endanger yourself by doing all the work is silly.  You are living in the past. Big time. Give it time your words will not hold up well.  
    In no time buying a car that does not do this will be like having to pedal a bike. 
    And the safety stats don’t lie. 

     

    You are doing Tesla-speak. It's counterintuitive to let the car do those things.

    The moment you let the car do some of the controlling, your mind automatic relaxed and be less alert to the surrounding.

    The only way to keep the mind alert and on the job of driving is to stay engaged at all times. 

    You see these scenarios all the time in competitive sports. If the athlete isn't concentrating on the job at hand, a mistake will be made and the other team scored. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    It never used cruise either but you don’t have an idea what you are talking about when it comes to long drives. It actually keeps you more rested and awake. Why you want to endanger yourself by doing all the work is silly.  You are living in the past. Big time. Give it time your words will not hold up well.  
    In no time buying a car that does not do this will be like having to pedal a bike. 
    And the safety stats don’t lie. 

     

    You are doing Tesla-speak. It's counterintuitive to let the car do those things.

    The moment you let the car do some of the controlling, your mind automatic relaxed and be less alert to the surrounding.

    The only way to keep the mind alert and on the job of driving is to stay engaged at all times. 

    You see these scenarios all the time in competitive sports. If the athlete isn't concentrating on the job at hand, a mistake will be made and the other team scored. 

    Do you want a pilot landing your plane after manually flying your plane for 8 hours or do you want autopilot to keep him fresh?  Look, I get your cars can’t do it and there must be a good reason in your mind why you bought them anyway.  The reality is we don’t live in the world you describe. We live in a world of automation and computers. We realized decades ago that machines can do things better than people.  Can you think of other examples?  I don’t  have the energy to have this type of long settled debate but feel free to continue.  I’m ready to put the matter to a vote!  Anyone care to side with me?

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    It never used cruise either but you don’t have an idea what you are talking about when it comes to long drives. It actually keeps you more rested and awake. Why you want to endanger yourself by doing all the work is silly.  You are living in the past. Big time. Give it time your words will not hold up well.  
    In no time buying a car that does not do this will be like having to pedal a bike. 
    And the safety stats don’t lie. 

     

    You are doing Tesla-speak. It's counterintuitive to let the car do those things.

    The moment you let the car do some of the controlling, your mind automatic relaxed and be less alert to the surrounding.

    The only way to keep the mind alert and on the job of driving is to stay engaged at all times. 

    You see these scenarios all the time in competitive sports. If the athlete isn't concentrating on the job at hand, a mistake will be made and the other team scored. 

    Do you want a pilot landing your plane after manually flying your plane for 8 hours or do you want autopilot to keep him fresh?  Look, I get your cars can’t do it and there must be a good reason in your mind why you bought them anyway.  The reality is we don’t live in the world you describe. We live in a world of automation and computers. We realized decades ago that machines can do things better than people.  Can you think of other examples?  I don’t  have the energy to have this type of long settled debate but feel free to continue.  I’m ready to put the matter to a vote!  Anyone care to side with me?

     

     

    I know enough pilots to tell me they hated the 'autopilot' function, or mandatory 'autopilot' sessions during their flights. 

    They are more than capable to fly a plane 8 hrs to any destinations on any airport. Flying an airplane on 'autopilot' is just a requirement from the airlines than all pilots hates. They all say they are less sharp during the 'autopilot' sessions. 

    You have seen and read enough stories from pilots about them falling asleep during the 'autopilot' times. I absolutely do not want to see the plane crash while the plane is on 'autopilot' and the actual pilot fell asleep.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    VW poised to overtake Tesla in EV production and tech, labor chief says...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    (6 September 2020)

    Bernd Osterloh said VW could reach Tesla's potential production level of 900,000 to 1.5 million EVs a year by 2023 or even earlier.

    Volkswagen Group is in a position to overtake Tesla in both electric vehicle production figures and software development, the automaker’s labor chief, Bernd Osterloh, said in an interview with a German news outlet.

    “If Tesla sets up three factories where 300,000 to 500,000 cars can be produced, then we are talking about a number of units between 900,000 and 1.5 million. We want to achieve the same in 2023, probably even earlier,” Osterloh, who is head of the automaker’s works council, told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper on Sunday. 

    VW’s modular electric-drive matrix platform, or MEB, gives the carmaker a “huge” advantage,” as it can build any vehicle of any brand on it, Osterloh said.

    Osterloh also said he expected an engineering task force called Artemis, set up under under Audi CEO Markus Duesmann, to help the group catch up with Tesla’s technological edge. The new Car Software Organization, where all of VW’s software operations are bundled, is a step in this direction, Osterloh told the newspaper.

    “Their advantage is that they already have their software in the cars and use it to collect data,” he said of Tesla. “But if we get our system into our cars, we will have much more data within a short time.”

    VW said in 2018 that it would spend €44 billion ($52 billion) through 2023 as part of a push for now more than 50 full-electric models by 2025. 

    2020 Volkswagen ID 3...

    2021 Volkswagen ID 4 prototype...

    Link: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-poised-overtake-tesla-ev-production-and-tech-labor-chief-says


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tim:

    This mirrors my experience with these kind of systems. They work well in 90% of use-cases but fail in more complex scenarios. I don’t know whether that’s due to technical limitations or regulation though. 
    As a driver I find these driving aids in their current form really intrusive and would not spec them when ordering a new car. I don’t want my car to break or steer on its own unless I specifically ask it to do so. To be honest I actually feel less safe in cars that have these aids on by default because I’m not really fully in control anymore. I can see the benefit of a fully autonomous car but I think it will take another decade before I can enter my car drunk and tell it to take me home with basically 0 risk of crashing. 
     

    Another decade may not be enough. I had the chance to talk to an engineer (I won't say which car company because I do not know if he was supposed to tell me that) about fully autonomous (level 5) vehicles and he told me that right now, the technology (sensors, cameras but also software) isn't available yet. He also told me that his bosses often underestimate the complexity of these systems and the necessary AI systems (incl. software) development necessity for this to work really well. He thinks that it will take more than a decade to develop almost fail free systems (he said that even the slightest error margin is unacceptable) because of the complexity of these systems and that new hardware and new software algorithm approaches are necessary to achieve that. He wasn't optimistic at all about a safe level 5 vehicle development and said that what Elon Musk said (level 5 in 2021) is impossible, unless he is compromising safety to an unacceptable level. He also said that in his opinion, Tesla is quite a step ahead in this domain compared to other companies but the advancement is maybe three or four years, not more.

    I have no clue about this technology but I think that it is much more complex to build a fully autonomous car than for example a fully autonomous airplane. Are we there yet? I doubt it. I think Elon Musk is a little bit too optimistic and he mistakes US driving conditions with European driving conditions (roads, speeds, etc.).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I don't think we are yet at the point of even knowing when level 5 will come.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    I think Elon Musk is a little bit too optimistic and he mistakes US driving conditions with European driving conditions (roads, speeds, etc.).

    He is just fueling the hype so people keep buying shares Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Topspeed:
    RC:
    I think Elon Musk is a little bit too optimistic and he mistakes US driving conditions with European driving conditions (roads, speeds, etc.).

    He is just fueling the hype so people keep buying shares Smiley

    I actually like Elon Musk a lot. Of course he is not only a visionary but also a quite clever business man, I love it when his admirers think that he only wants to save the world, climate change and all but I also think that he may be a little bit over his head sometimes and he has been lucky so far. I admire him as well, I would be foolish not to do that but I do not always trust his optimism (or sales pitch Smiley). 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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