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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    pmpsch:
    I think we should vote to ban a928. I mean it is completly unacceptable having a guy who disagrees with the rest of us who now form such a cohesive view.

     It is a quality of democratic systems to allow each individuum to express its own views Smiley


    Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Looking at the German price list kindly posted by Kreso I noticed that a minimum of another 9.000 Euro are needed for "compulsory options"  on the Carrera S model i.e. PSE, PDCC, PTV and Sport Chrono. More if you choose the -20mm chassis.

    Porsche's initial price is very theoretical as no car will be delivered without the above options

    Skimming the cream has always been a Porsche speciality!
    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    A Lime Gold car without any badging.

    1314179202130Lime Gold.JPG


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    no car will be delivered without the above options

    Not true, do not need PSE and SC, PDCC not decided yet. Also no PDK for me !!

    btw ,  PTV is standard on S 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     WOW, this car looks even better IRL! Sick...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    993S:
    reginos:

    no car will be delivered without the above options

    Not true, do not need PSE and SC, PDCC not decided yet. Also no PDK for me !!

    btw ,  PTV is standard on S 

    PTV standard yes, my mistake so some 1.300 Euro less.

    SC sharpens the throttle on the manual car too (different map) so it's not a PDK only feature. PSE even if you pass by,  you will have to retrofit believe me, in which case the cost will be higher.

    PDCC, you will be convinced as soon as you test drive judging from similar systems on other cars from Porsche, BMW, Mercedes.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    A Lime Gold car without any badging.

    1314179202130Lime Gold.JPG

    What to delete from the extensive rear badging will be decision issue for many people.

    The plain car above looks good but that large area looks too empty perhaps. OTOH the PORSCHE badge is too much.

    I'd like a Carrera S badge like on the 997 without the 911 part. I hope they can do it Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    A Lime Gold car without any badging.

    1314179202130Lime Gold.JPG


    Thanks for the picture. I find it very obvious that Porsche changed proportions on the car significantly, wondering how the widebody versions will look like.
     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I never  used the sport button on my now sold 997  turbo but I kept looking at the wart and wishing it wasn't there. I really do not care for a so called sharper throttle as it brings nada. In fact to me it makes the car less enjoyable. The less gimmicks the better. I want to get me a lean and clean 991 in red with black wheels. Less is more.red 991.jpg

    PSE:  if there was an option for "quiet exhaust" I would tick it. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    That looks good in red!

    The front -in that picture- reminds me of the Porsche in 'Cars' though!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    PTV standard yes, my mistake so some 1.300 Euro less.

    SC sharpens the throttle on the manual car too (different map) so it's not a PDK only feature. PSE even if you pass by,  you will have to retrofit believe me, in which case the cost will be higher.

    PDCC, you will be convinced as soon as you test drive judging from similar systems on other cars from Porsche, BMW, Mercedes.


    The sport-button is standard as well, only sport plus with the dynamic motor mounts is extra. I personally would choose PSE but that´s an individual decision. I agree though that one can accumulate quite a sum selecting options.

    Indeed a huge thanks to Kreso for the files!
     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    mateoche:

    curious if you will be ordering PDCC yourself? 

    thank you

     Hi mateoche,

    I still have to test it since its new in the 911 but if it works like in he other models, it will certainly be at the top of my option list, along with PSE, SC, and maybe S-PASM -20mm chasis, though this last one is still undecided since regular PASM combined with PDCC may be a good substitute/compromise since PDCC makes the ride more stable and flat, one of the reasons why I would always opt for the sportiest suspension/chasis option on the 996/997 since to me the standard suspensions and PASM was to soft and woobly. Also another reason that I got the -20m on the 997S was for the rear LSD but now in the 991S its  already standard. So now with PDCC, the more compient regualr PASM may do the trick when combined with the new PDCC.

    Still I just hope I can get a hold of a non-PDCC and a PDCC to test, but I won't be getting a 991 just yet, with so many new tech gadgets the 991 is bringing, I don't want to get a first year production unit until the quirks and posibles issues are ironed out, and also see how they pan out over the forst year, and user's reports about them. I'm also cautious about the new electromechanical steering until I test it, the 991 always had a very particular steering feedback and response that is one the the things I loved the most about it, and hope its has not changed.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    993S:

    I never  used the sport button on my now sold 997  turbo but I kept looking at the wart and wishing it wasn't there. I really do not care for a so called sharper throttle as it brings nada. In fact to me it makes the car less enjoyable. The less gimmicks the better. I want to get me a lean and clean 991 in red with black wheels. Less is more.red 991.jpg

    PSE:  if there was an option for "quiet exhaust" I would tick it. 

    That's the idea a tailor made Porsche for every customer! I think someone said that no 2 are the same because of the numerous option permutations.

    BTW your choice above looks very good Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:
    Carrara:

     Not that major. The design DNA of a 911 is as follows: Strong broad shoulder, raised front wings, a sloping roofline, a dynamic stance, a tapered and low front end, a tachometer higher than anything else in the interior, and ignition on the left, rear seats, GT like comfort, efficiency, and spectacular performance.

    What's the 991 lacking from that list?

    If you have to ask... the soul of a 911 is not its body shape. It's its unique (some say quirky) driving dynamics.

    Many buy the 911 for its looks/panache and so on. The 991 will probably continue to offer that, even tough full of luxury accoutrements which do not belong there (e.g. consoles, doors, sunroofs). But I suspect (I'll confirm it when I drive it probably this October) that a lot of its soul is gone. I care, many do not, and perhaps you don't either. All is good.

    But nothing is lost. There are plenty of great 911s from '64 to 2012 for those of us who understand the 11 soul. :)


    I do think that the body shape and overall design is a very decisive factor for a lot of customers. I actually know enough people that rate this as the highest aspect when acquiring a 911.

    You are evaluating the 991´s handling without every having sat behind the wheel so I suggest to wait a bit more for a final conclusion.

    I simply see a revolving pattern whenever Porsche launches a new product but, miraculously, hardly anybody keeps raising voice after a while. Several people saw the end of the traditional Porsche with the advent of the 996, now it is accompanying the advent of the 991. Wait ten more years and people will still say the same. Smiley
     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I am a bit late to party, but anyways, after some initial concerns especially about the LED-lights in the front bumper, the car has grown on me and I do really think that they nailed it design wise. Especially the lower roof line gives it a much more powerful appearance.

    There's no single shot of the car with the spoiler raised nor one with the engine lid open...


     


    --

    Matt C
    2009 997 GT3 Mk2  / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    993S:

    I never  used the sport button on my now sold 997  turbo but I kept looking at the wart and wishing it wasn't there. I really do not care for a so called sharper throttle as it brings nada. In fact to me it makes the car less enjoyable. The less gimmicks the better. I want to get me a lean and clean 991 in red with black wheels. Less is more.

    PSE:  if there was an option for "quiet exhaust" I would tick it. 

     

    Are you serious ? A sharper throttle response is vital for a sports car. Without it, it sucks.

    Gimmicks ? These aren't gimmicks. The standard throttle response setup is actually a gimmick because it allows "ordinary" people to drive the car without crashing it during the first couple of minutes after starting it. The original throttle setup is actually the sport plus setup but since many people are overwhelmed with this sensitive setup... 

    Judging by your PSE comment, I'd just say that you got old(er). Smiley Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    You guys talking about prices is making me depressed. Our 991 Carrera will cost and C2S will be before on road costs which adds another k or so. Bear in mind one Aussie dollar is more than one US dollar! Sigh.

     

    Same in here WAY, it was a mere €200K that I paid for my moderately equipped C4 in '08. Import taxes are enormous for luxury goods. 


    --
    '08 997 C4 sand beige on basalt black

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    pmpsch:
    I think we should vote to ban a928. I mean it is completly unacceptable having a guy who disagrees with the rest of us who now form such a cohesive view.

     It is a quality of democratic systems to allow each individuum to express its own views Smiley


    Agree Smiley

    The right, and freedom, to express one's views are both crucial of course Smiley No disagreement on that Smiley

    The issue here was that the views expressed (e.g. regarding speculative NoS lap times, visibility of the engine bay etc as being make-or-break factors for whether the 991 should be considered a worthy successor or not) added zero value to the debate and were littering this thread with premature and ill-conceived negativity that was diluting the quality of this important launch thread.

    a928 certainly exercised his freedom to express his views, even though they were ill-thought through. Unfortunately, he also felt the need to keep on repeating them ad nauseam to the considerable irritation of others with a more objective interest in this new model.

    Just my 2 cents Smiley

    --

    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Well said. Smiley 


    --

    Morgan Aero 8


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I think I will by pass on the PDCC and -20mm. Why? Because this isn't a track car, and I will leave those options until I get the 991 GT3. What I want is something with a bit of luxury, but still fun to drive yet comfortable enough for my family. So at the moment I am thinking platinum silver, full natural leather in cocoa, PSE, SC, PCCB, DEM, PDK with paddles, black wheels. What do you guys think? Did I miss anything important?

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     Today is 24th August... is there gonna be more information from Porsche 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    easy_rider911:
    a928 certainly exercised his freedom to express his views, even though they were ill-thought through. Unfortunately, he also felt the need to keep on repeating them ad nauseam to the considerable irritation of others with a more objective interest in this new model.

    Just my 2 cents Smiley

     

    As they used to say, on the Internet no on can tell you're a dog. But they CAN tell when you're 16 years old and think everything is about you. 

    Over the years, we've seen this before: a youngster comes in talking big and doesn't understand who he's talking to; doesn't recognize the tone is a little different here; doesn't understand why we're not impressed with his ability to draw attention to himself.

    No points off for having wealthy parents who buy you a car -- the first Porsche I drove was a family car, too -- and no points off for being young. But a very wise old woman once said to me, speaking of her own youth, "The good thing is, you're only that stupid once."

    I've managed to be stupid more than that, but I'm lucky that way! Smiley

     

     


    --

    "People ignore design that ignores people."


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    I think I will by pass on the PDCC and -20mm. Why? Because this isn't a track car, and I will leave those options until I get the 991 GT3. What I want is something with a bit of luxury, but still fun to drive yet comfortable enough for my family. So at the moment I am thinking platinum silver, full natural leather in cocoa, PSE, SC, PCCB, DEM, PDK with paddles, black wheels. What do you guys think? Did I miss anything important?

    WAY you are investing a substantial amount already, so go a bit extra and fit PDCC without -20mm.

    From an earlier post its benefits are more than the elimination of body roll. I wouldn't hesitate.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    pjd:

     Today is 24th August... is there gonna be more information from Porsche 

     

    What kind of "more information" do you need ?

    We have photos, we have all the specs, we even have the options, colors, prices (Germany) and almost every possible detail.

    What you need more ? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Ferdie:
    WAY:
    Ferdie:
    nberry:

    Many on this site who own Porsche's will not opt to buy a new one at least in the near or distance future.


    Funny, thought that above your post quite a few users indicated to acquire the new model. Apart from that, don´t forget the "emerging" markets where certainly one or two cars will sell...

    Smiley

     

    Yup, I'm ready to order one as are 3 of my friends. Despite the weak global economy, I don't think they will struggle with sales as many people have held back from buying a 911 in recent months due to the 991.


    Smiley

    Would be great to see pictures of your Spyder, by the way, as that is an interesting colour combination!
     


    So sorry Ferdie, just saw this now. Was looking for the pic of the ugly sunroof closeup and saw this. Anyway, the pic below is the only pic I have thus far believe it or not. I will be taking some proper pics this weekend if the weather is nice, interior and exterior. Keep an eye out on the Boxster section. I don't normally post pics of my cars much, but will do so for this.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:
    WAY:
    I think I will by pass on the PDCC and -20mm. Why? Because this isn't a track car, and I will leave those options until I get the 991 GT3. What I want is something with a bit of luxury, but still fun to drive yet comfortable enough for my family. So at the moment I am thinking platinum silver, full natural leather in cocoa, PSE, SC, PCCB, DEM, PDK with paddles, black wheels. What do you guys think? Did I miss anything important?

    WAY you are investing a substantial amount already, so go a bit extra and fit PDCC without -20mm.

    From an earlier post its benefits are more than the elimination of body roll. I wouldn't hesitate.


    I think -20mm may make the car too stiff for the family, but maybe the PDCC. Wish I could read German so I could see what other option there is.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:
    pjd:

     Today is 24th August... is there gonna be more information from Porsche 

     

    What kind of "more information" do you need ?

    We have photos, we have all the specs, we even have the options, colors, prices (Germany) and almost every possible detail.

    What you need more ? Smiley


    How about options in English? :P

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    I think -20mm may make the car too stiff for the family, but maybe the PDCC. Wish I could read German so I could see what other option there is.


    Thanks for the picture of your Spyder, looks great. From the pricelist, is there anything you´d like to have translated? Guess me and some other native speakers wouldn´t mind to assist.

    Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    I think I will by pass on the PDCC and -20mm. Why? Because this isn't a track car, and I will leave those options until I get the 991 GT3. What I want is something with a bit of luxury, but still fun to drive yet comfortable enough for my family. So at the moment I am thinking platinum silver, full natural leather in cocoa, PSE, SC, PCCB, DEM, PDK with paddles, black wheels. What do you guys think? Did I miss anything important?

     

    WAY, I would change the DEM for the PDCC, while PDCC helps in making the car corner flat when it needs to, it also works the other way around by softening the roll bars in certain situations for confort, such as going over speed bump or uneven surfaces were one wheel becomes raised or lowered with respect to the other at lower speeds, and making thr suspensions more "indiependant" in those situations so that the unconfortable sway that is caused is transmited less to the car. At least that is in theory with electronic sway bars, we still don't know the one in the 911, but the Cayenne for example takes that to the extreme when in off roading mode so as to be more efficient at off road obsticles and terrain. Also reducing the body roll in the corners also helps in the confort of the pasegers. So I would argue that PDCC is not only a handling option but also a confrot option to a certain degree. While DEM as far as I know doesn't do much for confort and was born out of the 997GT3 for track performance in mind. Jus my two cents Smiley 21


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:
    pjd:

     Today is 24th August... is there gonna be more information from Porsche 

     

    What kind of "more information" do you need ?

    We have photos, we have all the specs, we even have the options, colors, prices (Germany) and almost every possible detail.

    What you need more ? Smiley


    RC How about your official test drive report for the 991?


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


     
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