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    Panamera Design Comparison

    To my eye even the VW CC design looks better, sorry to say.

    Page-01.jpeg



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    997 C4S FL

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Yep - agree! I even go a step further and say that the VW is onw of the most beautiful ones in the side view.

    Of course - the Panamera is the worst 


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    The funny thing is that imo the audi sportback has the most 911-esque design lines regarding the roofline...

    The VW roofline is a bit deceptive, as the dark background blemishes the contour of the rear hatch.

    The panamera blob seems to have the least well-defined lines. It looks as if all other manufacturers chose to go for the "folded paper" looks, whereas Porsche went for the shapeless balloon looks. In this case, the folded paper looks seem to do a very good job in making those huge cars look sharp and fast and well-defined, where the porsche approach seems to accentuate the bulboesness...

    LOL, re-reading what I wrote above... does it make sense to anybody?

    -Joost-


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    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    IMO you cannot judge a car (or any object) by an one view static picture. 

    However, based on the 6 pictures above I like the Audi the most.


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    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    See how different the Panamera looks in this picture, for example compared to the picture above image side view.png


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    reginos:

    See how different the Panamera looks in this picture, for example compared to the picture above 

    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    That's correct. In this pic it looks even worse. Smiley


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    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Joost:

    The funny thing is that imo the audi sportback has the most 911-esque design lines regarding the roofline...

    The VW roofline is a bit deceptive, as the dark background blemishes the contour of the rear hatch.

    The panamera blob seems to have the least well-defined lines. It looks as if all other manufacturers chose to go for the "folded paper" looks, whereas Porsche went for the shapeless balloon looks. In this case, the folded paper looks seem to do a very good job in making those huge cars look sharp and fast and well-defined, where the porsche approach seems to accentuate the bulboesness...

    LOL, re-reading what I wrote above... does it make sense to anybody?

    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    I can see what you are trying to say and IMO the folded paper look come across better in pictures than the rounded curvy look of the Panamera.

    This is the reason the Porsche looks better in real life pictures than in  set pictures with artificial lighting. It also looks better in the metal according to people who have seen it already, because real lighting defines the curves and the contours whereas in vague pictures the whole car looks like a bloated baloon.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Guys,

    first of all Porsche has always defined their cars by shapes, not by cuts and angles. If you look at the 356, the very first 911 (901), even the contamporary 987 and 997 models, none of the body panels or the daylight openings feature pronounced bends. The exception of this rule can be seen on the Volkswagen-Porsche, the 924 & 944 models and, to a lesser degree, on the 928. 

    The dynamic cuts and angles on the former cars are achieved by the shapes of airinlets and -outlets, lighting clusters or bumpers and much unlike other manufacturers, that define their cars by two-dimensional, graphic elements. The same philosophy applies to the Panamera and is the reason why Porsche´s models usually appear more appealing in reality. I´d be curious to know which target group, especially age, Porsche intends to sell the car, predictably to customers of higher age and income that have settled for a more relaxing drive than an all-out sportscar. Let´s wait and see whether the Panamera will fulfill their needs.

    Without any intention to defend the Panamera, the major manufacturers feature the crossover of limousine and coupe as an additional model and therefore offer an alternative for the more conservative buyer. Have you ever tried to enter the rear of a CLS? The models on the right column are concept cars that naturally exaggerate design theme and expression, with most of them being dropped with serial production.


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    If they could only redesign that rear 40 percent of the car maybe I could have thought differently for Panamera.  However the car is so huge that even 20" wheels look like entry level.

    --

    2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

    Suzuki Burgman AN400


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Guys - you can turn it around as you want. This car has it design issues! Basta!

     


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Lars997:

    Guys - you can turn it around as you want. This car has it design issues! Basta!


            ...........and the other cars have practicality issues.


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Reginos, Ferdi,

    What you say makes sense. However, I think I have an idea about how they could have kept the high roofline, yet giving it a better appearance. I'll try to p-shop something in the coming days.

    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Reginos,

    The photo of the silver Panamera definitely looks better, but not great, to my eye.

    The home page photo on the Porsche USA web site, now removed or cookied away: silver, rear side view with the articulated spoiler up made it look like a Crossfire.

    Interestingly, most of the marketing material focuses on the (much more harmonious) interior. Reminds me of the ad for the C4S FL. They used a red car to hide the reflector strip!

    Porsche design may not know what they are doing these days, but Porsche marketing certainly does!



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    997 C4S FL

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    How about this , on the street photo of true profile - I  p-shoped bigger wheels only , and that will be available from option list anyway .

    Pana tt  HRE P40.JPG



    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Emperor:
    Lars997:

    Guys - you can turn it around as you want. This car has it design issues! Basta!

     


            ...........and the other cars have practicality issues.

     

            I dont think that the Panamera has a higher practicality as the other cars. Those cars are all four seaters which limits the use already.


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Lars, which sedan has five normal seats? How long did you ever sit at the rear with three adults?

    Speaking about practicality, you have to remove AM Rapide. Speaking about rear comfort also the MB CLS. The other one I don´t know. The only car offering high comfort at the rear seats is Panamera.


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    AM


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Aldo, I havent been seeting in the Panamera yet. I've been in the CLS, Quattroporte and Passat CC. The CC and CLS have been comfortable (I'm 178cm). Of course, a S-Class or BMW 7 are a bit more spacious. The Quattroporte was to tight for me.


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Wow, the Panamera is still ugly as ever. I was actually starting to like the rear spoiler feature that expands after lifting.

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Mike - I would say go for it - an expanding spoiler is indeed a option for getting such a car

     

    Ok - no kidding, as we all are so on and off at this car, I would say it has indeed problems. So what the heck - it will find its buyers, I dont think there are many underneath us.

     

    And - you know what, the next 911 will have that expandable spoiler, too!


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    This reminds me of the introduction of the last generation BMW 7 series - the first of Chris Bangle's designs. 

    I personally had been a very loyal BMW 7 series customer until then. I had three 740L's in a row. The new design put me off completely. I switched to the then current M5 (pre Bangle), loved it and was ready to get the new M5...until I saw it. And that's how I ended up with a 911.

    BMW always claimed that Bangle's designs were behind their increased market success (and certainly they have influenced others - ergo the current MB S series), but if so, why was he 'kicked upstairs' and has now departed, still in his early fifties?

    Has Porsche changed its design team or management recently, I wonder?

    PS: for anyone interested, there is a very informative Wikipedia entry on Chris Bangle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Bangle




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    997 C4S FL

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    pnoble - i like this comparisson. The old 7 was getting a bit better with the new rear lights of the facelift. But - until then and even until the end of production noone really liked this car.  So - the designers always telling us that controversy is important for design, but still I think it is important that you like it. And it is not true, that something you hated from beginning you will start loving, you might want to accept it and probably like it but pure love needs a bit "on first sight"

     


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Lars997:

    Aldo, I havent been seeting in the Panamera yet. I've been in the CLS, Quattroporte and Passat CC. The CC and CLS have been comfortable (I'm 178cm). Of course, a S-Class or BMW 7 are a bit more spacious. The Quattroporte was to tight for me.


     Yes, you have been sitting alone, or with one additional adult. But not three of you!   So it does make a lot of sense, offering two comfortable seats instead of 3 not so comfortable seats.  I have it in my X6 and everyone who had the chance to use the rear seats was amazed how good they are.  The Panamera gives you more then a S-class feeling it gives you on top some sort of privacy like in business class.


    --

    AM


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Your comments are tempting Aldo. If the back is really like a that I would buy one and need a driver

     

    I had two weeks ago a 750iL test car, with chauffeur equipement. Single frame seat, enteratinment and all the stuff in the rear. It was amazing, this was really a bit like a business class. If the Panamera is close to that.... Oh la la..


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    pnoble:

    This reminds me of the introduction of the last generation BMW 7 series - the first of Chris Bangle's designs. 

    I personally had been a very loyal BMW 7 series customer until then. I had three 740L's in a row. The new design put me off completely. I switched to the then current M5 (pre Bangle), loved it and was ready to get the new M5...until I saw it. And that's how I ended up with a 911.

    BMW always claimed that Bangle's designs were behind their increased market success (and certainly they have influenced others - ergo the current MB S series), but if so, why was he 'kicked upstairs' and has now departed, still in his early fifties?

    Has Porsche changed its design team or management recently, I wonder?


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    997 C4S FL

    To understand the position of a man like Bangle is very difficult for many people. His position is not that much of designing, I mean drawing with his hands, or modelling the cars... He is not even the one that makes the proposals. His role is more of someone that organises the entire design department sees the designers in their work searches for the creative ideas and in the same time he has the criteria to follow the heritage of the company or to change the design lenguage as desired by his superiors. Also he is one of the man responsible for the connection between the design with the marketing, engineering, suppliers… so on….  He makes the first choice of the design proposals but the final word is not his, but belongs to his superiors.  The cars where designed by Adrian van Hooydonk for the BMW 6 series or Karim Habib for the CS concept and the last 7 series... to name just two of the guys from BMW. But again the final choice was not made of any of them. Is a decision taken on one or two clay models where all the big bosses are there.

     When he was hired in BMW his task was to revolutionise the BMW design language. So he is not responsible for changing the old BMW style because “his fault” but because he was asked to do it. And if in the 90´s the Audi was the “benchmark” for design with their minimal, techno, Bauhaus even sterile design the BMW become the benchmark of the first decade of our century. His influence marked any car design studio in this world. He had the courage to play again with the surfaces and sharp edges and negative/positive changes of poles. And the worst in all this is that a bunch of journalists that had no idea about design, the feeling of innovation in line, shape, volume and style concept just started to write all the bullshit about Bangle. Ask today any design student, professional designer, school design or professional studio to talk about Bangle and like it or not, every one will tell you about how great designer Bangle is. Here is just a link form cardesignnews the professionals page about Bangle:

    http://www.cardesignnews.com/site/home/new_cars/display/store4/item152778/

    And the fact that he was made boss of the entire BMW design work including Mini and Rolls Royce it is not because the bosses didn´t wanted him to touch anymore the BMW design but because he was very good at what he did. Nobody will give you a better job with much more money than before and responsibility way bigger than before if they are not satisfied with what you did. And I´m surprised to hear a lot of managers biting form this bullshit when they know that it is something that you may never do it in your own company. He supervised all the work from Rolls to Mini and BMW in all this time, just that being a very good manager he knew to let the people to get all the credit for their work.

    And he “retired” in his 50´s not because he was fired, believe me…. And if that being the case imagine that the board hired his right hand man in his position..... yeah right, he was fired...

    And about Porsche they changed the design director Harm Laagay, one person that also left the job in his late 50´s with Michael Mauer. And again that roof line that no one likes in not his line but as anyone has read it was asked by Wndelin Wiedeking the CEO. It is just one thing that the people don´t get: the final result of a car is not the decision of a designer but a compromise of many requests made by many people.

     



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    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Ed_moree,

    Thank you for the very insightful analysis. Are you a product designer yourself?

    Most interesting is that the design of the Pamamera was so strongly influenced by their CEO.

    Of course product design is about appealing to customers and measured in sales, and I only count for one (or not).

    Regarding the respect that Chris Bangle is accorded by other automotive designers, certainly some of the quotes on the Wikipedia entry from major automotive heads of design are less than complimentary, but maybe they were taken out of context.

    Certainly a design can grow on one, but I woiuld submit that the very best design elicits an immediate, emotional, visceral response - a passion to possess. Same with a beautiful woman!



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    997 C4S FL

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Automobile design has to succumb to practicalities, because the automobile is foremost a means of transport. What would the point be of having a slightly different roofline or shorter length (that in the eyes of some would make it more handsome) if people would not fit properly in the car?

    Such functional sacrifices might be OK in a bijou car like the Lamborghini or the Aston Martin (if they ever reach production) but not in Porsche that needs to driven every single day and serve a useful purpose, besides any excitement that it generates.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Reginos,

    Great design is surely about marrying form and function without sacrificing either.

    Paul


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    997 C4S FL

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    pnoble:

    Reginos,

    Great design is surely about marrying form and function without sacrificing either.

    Paul


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    997 C4S FL

    Easier said than done, like most ideal things in life.

    Anyway personally I like the Panamera based on pictures, as I liked the previous FL BMW 7 series more than the sanitised current model.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Lars997:

    Your comments are tempting Aldo. If the back is really like a that I would buy one and need a driver

    I had two weeks ago a 750iL test car, with chauffeur equipement. Single frame seat, enteratinment and all the stuff in the rear. It was amazing, this was really a bit like a business class. If the Panamera is close to that.... Oh la la..

    not like 750il but like 750i. If this is ok for you. And yes, Panamera will and can be used with chauffeur.


    Re: Panamera Design Comparison

    Porsche-Panamera-6  sample.JPG

    I'd like to hear what is wrong with this design - apart from personal disliking .


     
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