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    Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k , I know that is with nothing on it but in the year 2005 to own a new Porsche for under 50K is something .

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Very disappointed P made the base Cayenne. Hope it doesn't sound too snobby, but it's a real shame. What next? A 1 series BMW-esque Porsche for less than $20k?

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Mish,

    That "base" Cayenne has saved Porsche's ass by boosting sales. With fuel prices rocketing skyward Porsche needs this engine in most world markets. Even the good people in the US are starting to wake up to the fact that cheap fuel is a thing of the past. Just be thankful that the sales of the V6 pepper are helping Porsche to remain independent and allowing them to develop the sports models. I love my V6 pepper as a daily driver and would not have spent the extra on the S just to watch my gas mileage dwindle every time I prodded the accelerator. The V6 is more than fast enough for everday driving and makes a great noise too. I have my 997 for kicks at weekends and if I'm going to waste gas I'd rather do it in a sports car.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Isuk, I fully understand where you are coming from with regards to fuel etc - I still however feel that it has tarnished, rather than enhanced P's reputation as a sports vehicle maker.

    Have you any idea - of the 100k Cayennes made - how many were base, S and Turbo's?


    RC, maybe you could assist if Isuk has no answer?

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Mish,

    Can't help on sales numbers. Just know from 3 UK dealers that the V6 model does good business here for them now compared to the S model. It competes well against the X5 and a lot of buyers take the car in fairly standard trim with very few extras. It's popularity has increased in direct correllation to the over supply of X5's which has made that car too familiar a sight on our roads. The Turbo was always a niche car here due to it's price level and shocking fuel consumption and the arrival of the V6 has eaten into S sales in the UK from what I can gather.

    Again I think it is a shrewd strategy from Porsche. Get people introduced to the brand at this price level and chances are they won't want to trade out to another brand come trade in time but will either replace with a higher optioned car or move up the model range as their own income increases. The test of time will be whether or not they get the supply balance just right. Too many cars on the used market can just kill off the prestige and relative rarity value of the brand.

    I personally cannot see why people get so uptight about a Porsche badge on an SUV. This car is easily the best in class in terms of it's performance and has not devalued the sporting heritage of Porsche, at least not in the UK IMHO. Had Porsche taken a Touareg and simply stuck on a crested P badge then I could see a reason to be upset but they didn't do that.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    If they can sell the base car for 40 then tehy must make a big profit on the other models as the add ons could not cost them much . I see now why this car makes as much for the company as all of the other sports cars they make put together . It is a great car but the mark up must be high .

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    The mark-up is no where near as high as you pay for a 911.
    Each 911 amounts to nearly 40K in profit for Porsche.

    Sometimes I wonder if being owned by a larger entity such as VW would be such a bad thing for the consumer. It's not like Fiat is actually doing any design work for Ferrari. Porsche then could pass along a better product without ripping off the consumer. Their "options" are such a rip off at this point they should just start a std. 911 at 85K and cut out the formalities.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    Each 911 amounts to nearly 40K in profit for Porsche.




    Base price on a 911 is 70k USD. Are you saying there is over 50% profit on a base 911?

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    The mark-up is no where near as high as you pay for a 911.
    Each 911 amounts to nearly 40K in profit for Porsche.

    Sometimes I wonder if being owned by a larger entity such as VW would be such a bad thing for the consumer. It's not like Fiat is actually doing any design work for Ferrari. Porsche then could pass along a better product without ripping off the consumer. Their "options" are such a rip off at this point they should just start a std. 911 at 85K and cut out the formalities.




    SoCal, if a 911 became as popular a sight as say a 3 series BMW - would as many people lust after it?

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    mish said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    The mark-up is no where near as high as you pay for a 911.
    Each 911 amounts to nearly 40K in profit for Porsche.

    Sometimes I wonder if being owned by a larger entity such as VW would be such a bad thing for the consumer. It's not like Fiat is actually doing any design work for Ferrari. Porsche then could pass along a better product without ripping off the consumer. Their "options" are such a rip off at this point they should just start a std. 911 at 85K and cut out the formalities.




    SoCal, if a 911 became as popular a sight as say a 3 series BMW - would as many people lust after it?



    Nope it surely would not, however imagine if the price stayed the same but what you got for your dollar was much nicer. In other words, one of the main reasons to be owned by a larger corporate parent would be so they would not have to skip on so many parts and pieces to maximize their profits. What they are currently doing is giving us a Japanese car without the Japanese price.

    For example... for the price I pay I want the interior to have as a high a standard as Maserati/Ferrari. I don't want them to make the car cheaper. I want them to make it nicer/faster/less problematic. I want it to feel like I'm getting into a 150K Turbo and not a 60K Boxster.
    Does BMW share the same interior for the 7 series as it does the 3 series? No. So why should Porsche?

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    Each 911 amounts to nearly 40K in profit for Porsche.




    Base price on a 911 is 70k USD. Are you saying there is over 50% profit on a base 911?



    Let me know when you find a dealer willing to part with a brand new 997 at 70K.

    Like I said they should just start it at 80-85K and stop the insulting option list. Who actually makes an 80K car and gives an "option" for full leather???
    That number is not a figure I made up. In business I totally understand why they do what they do, but as a consumer I'm horrified by it.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    SoCal,

    Fiat as a group is in huge financial trouble and has been for some time. They tried to dump the auto division on GM who had a large minority shareholding with a firm option to buy. GM lost a packet getting out of that deal. And being part of a large industrial group has not had the effect of reducing option prices on Ferraris that you propose it might if Porsche were owned by someone else. Have you seen how much Ferrari charge for the Scuderia wing shields?? I hadn't noticed Lamborghini's offering greater value under the ownership of VW group either. Better engineering certainly but no price reductions. These cars trade on brand status as do all luxury goods. If you want to talk about consumer rip offs lets start looking at the Swiss watch makers or Italian fashion houses... they know how to lift joe public's leg up by using a brand.


    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    not sure what the gross margins are on specific models but as a company, their gross margin was 54.9% last year. 59% the previous.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    ISUK...

    Ferrari is Ferrari... here in the states they aren't even close anymore. Ferrari is at the top of the food chain and can charge pretty much what they want. The depreciation on the vehicle is also like that of a collector's car.

    Porsche on the other hand is now viewed just like BMW, Mercedes, & Audi. A luxury car maker that is going for sheer volume. It doesn't even race anymore... sad. And the depreciation...wow... don't even get me started.

    I gave the example of Fiat because it hasn't hurt Ferrari one bit. In fact, they've been bringing out better and better cars in recent years. I just don't understand when people talk about how Porsche has remained independent...blah...blah...

    The fact is, to save costs they are doing joint ventures with VW, Audi, etc.
    How would that be any different if they were owned by another company???

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    Each 911 amounts to nearly 40K in profit for Porsche.




    Base price on a 911 is 70k USD. Are you saying there is over 50% profit on a base 911?



    Two year ago Weideking stated that the cost to produce a
    996 was only 9% more than to make a base Boxster.

    Porsche profit per car is the envy of all manufacturers.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    How would that be any different if they were owned by another company???



    Socal,

    I think you missed my point. I wasn't arguing either way whether or not Porsche should remain independent but was merely expressing some respect for a business that manages to compete in a world market place, to some of the most demanding customers, in a heavily regulated sector, whilst managing to remain financially independent AND profitable. Most other huge car producing companies are in financial trouble at present even after buying up the prestige brands - Ford, GM, FIAT, Daimler Chrysler to name but a few. The problem with big automotive groups buying up luxury brands is that they often don't understand the heritage the brand has been built upon and expect quick $$s by producing under par cars fitted with the prestige brand. In an age where volume cars are now of such good quality and so well equipped, this approach just doesn't cut it.

    It has taken Aston Martin years under Ford ownership before it has turned the corner under the stewardship of Ulrich Betz (he of Porsche fame). FIAT let Ferrari slide into the mire of poor quality control, under investment and mediocre development in the late 80's resulting in the 348 which is not exactly the finest car ever to wear the prancing horse badge. It took the appointment of Luca di Montezemolo as head of Ferrari in the early 90's to rescue the brand by focusing on re-establishing the F1 team then making the road cars manners more acceptable and more reliable to appeal to a wider audience. The F355 was the first fruit of his efforts if memory serves me correctly.

    I'm not bashing anyone's views on this thread as we are all entitled to our opinion. I'm just trying to be more objective when looking back at the history of these brands and leave off the rose tinted spectacles.

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    How would that be any different if they were owned by another company???



    Socal,

    I think you missed my point. I wasn't arguing either way whether or not Porsche should remain independent but was merely expressing some respect for a business that manages to compete in a world market place, to some of the most demanding customers, in a heavily regulated sector, whilst managing to remain financially independent AND profitable. Most other huge car producing companies are in financial trouble at present even after buying up the prestige brands - Ford, GM, FIAT, Daimler Chrysler to name but a few. The problem with big automotive groups buying up luxury brands is that they often don't understand the heritage the brand has been built upon and expect quick $$s by producing under par cars fitted with the prestige brand. In an age where volume cars are now of such good quality and so well equipped, this approach just doesn't cut it.

    It has taken Aston Martin years under Ford ownership before it has turned the corner under the stewardship of Ulrich Betz (he of Porsche fame). FIAT let Ferrari slide into the mire of poor quality control, under investment and mediocre development in the late 80's resulting in the 348 which is not exactly the finest car ever to wear the prancing horse badge. It took the appointment of Luca di Montezemolo as head of Ferrari in the early 90's to rescue the brand by focusing on re-establishing the F1 team then making the road cars manners more acceptable and more reliable to appeal to a wider audience. The F355 was the first fruit of his efforts if memory serves me correctly.

    I'm not bashing anyone's views on this thread as we are all entitled to our opinion. I'm just trying to be more objective when looking back at the history of these brands and leave off the rose tinted spectacles.



    We can all applaud Porsche but this is not a "how to run business" board. The same could be said of Louis Vuitton or Gucci (with Ford as head creative)... brand name sells but it doesn't necessarily mean it is better than another. When you can measure something tangibly such as performance... that is when aesthetics/design/etc are pretty much thrown out the door. (I say "pretty much" because that POS Donkervoot thing is beyond this)

    In the old days... Porsche out-performed so it really didn't matter that the styling never changed. Now it is being outperformed... so what is left? The legacy of racing?

    Re: Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Did not know you could get a Cayenne for 42k , I know that is with nothing on it but in the year 2005 to own a new Porsche for under 50K is something .



    Actually, these days the 911's are alot cheaper too. Back in 1994 a base 911 Coupé was 65K. That equals 125K in 2005 dollars if you accout for inflation. Today, the base price for a 911 is USD 69300.
    New Porsches are extremely good value these days.

     
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