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    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Grant:
    RC:

    I still think I would get the Huracan Performante instead (sound, AWD) but the 600LT is definitely one of the cars I would consider in this price range, more than any Porsche, sorry to say that.

    Isn't the Performante quite a bit more expensive?

    In Germany, same price (Coupe).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    If the true HP is like on a 720 - this car could be indeed be a sweet spot and the nightmare for many competitors in a much higher price bracket. I am really curious on the sound with the new exhaust layout  !



    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    BjoernB:

    If the true HP is like on a 720 - this car could be indeed be a sweet spot and the nightmare for many competitors in a much higher price bracket. I am really curious on the sound with the new exhaust layout  !

    The 570S is already pretty fast. We drove side by side on the Autobahn, from 80 to 180 kph, performance was basically the same (vs. my R8) but from 200 kph on, the 570S drove away surprisingly fast. So there clearly is an extra power somewhere because there is no way the car has 570 hp only.

    Funny: We did a similar thing with my E63S and from 80 to 180 kph, I was slightly ahead. Smiley We couldn't go over 220 kph though, would have been interesting.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    RC:
    The 570S is already pretty fast. We drove side by side on the Autobahn, from 80 to 180 kph, performance was basically the same (vs. my R8) but from 200 kph on, the 570S drove away surprisingly fast. So there clearly is an extra power somewhere because there is no way the car has 570 hp only

    The 570 is pretty narrow compared with R8 which helps with aero drag (frontal area)...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    found out from my dealer its about AUD 550k! ....  thats about the same as a used 720S.

     

    the problem with McLaren still lies n their poor resale.  tho the LT range is prob the best of the bunch. makes Porsche GT cars such a bargain.


    --

    BMW 1 M + C63 (gone).   997.2 GT3


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Grant:
    RC:
    The 570S is already pretty fast. We drove side by side on the Autobahn, from 80 to 180 kph, performance was basically the same (vs. my R8) but from 200 kph on, the 570S drove away surprisingly fast. So there clearly is an extra power somewhere because there is no way the car has 570 hp only

    The 570 is pretty narrow compared with R8 which helps with aero drag (frontal area)...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Not sure this is drag only, the car pulled away quite well.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    RC:
    Grant:
    RC:
    The 570S is already pretty fast. We drove side by side on the Autobahn, from 80 to 180 kph, performance was basically the same (vs. my R8) but from 200 kph on, the 570S drove away surprisingly fast. So there clearly is an extra power somewhere because there is no way the car has 570 hp only

    The 570 is pretty narrow compared with R8 which helps with aero drag (frontal area)...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Not sure this is drag only, the car pulled away quite well.

    If it was power and/or weight advantage, it would have beaten you to 180kph also, right?

    Only high speed advantage tends to be aero, unless cars in very different power and weight classes (like Caterham vs,


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    In Germany even the LT models (675) show a fairly high depreciation for a model limited to 500 units.

    Depreciation is the problem which holds me off buying a McL and in particular a 600 LT.

    A 500 unit Porsche or Ferrari model does not suffer from this problem.


    --

    AMG GTR / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    And according to this article they are thinking off making an even quicker "600LT".

    https://www.carscoops.com/2018/07/mclarens-already-considering-even-extreme-600lt/

    Depreciation at full speed heart


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    the LT is like the GT3 then?Smiley

    and the hardcore one will be the GT3RS?Smiley

    I say bravo! Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    The 570S is a monster in the 250 to Vmax range. I have my suspicions but I better keep them for me. Smiley

    There is a reason why some sportscar manufacturers take back boost pressure and/or ignition timings in the upper speed range and this isn't only related to thermodynamics, if you get my drift. Smiley

    I would love to see a real life emissions test on these McLarens in that speed range. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    Its all about demand, there is no problem bringing out consecutive facelifted variants of the 911 GT vesions when you have more people fighting over them than the supply, but when you bring new versions out  every other day when there is not that much demand, you are killing the resale of the prevoius version s you launch the new ones. Personally I dont see a problem, with reason, sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Carlos from Spain:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

     sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 

    Exactly, Carlos Smiley


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

    991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

    Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

    Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    RC:
    The 570S is a monster in the 250 to Vmax range. I have my suspicions but I better keep them for me. Smiley

    There is a reason why some sportscar manufacturers take back boost pressure and/or ignition timings in the upper speed range and this isn't only related to thermodynamics, if you get my drift. Smiley

    I would love to see a real life emissions test on these McLarens in that speed range. Smiley

    Why not discuss?  I'm interested.  Or are McLaren's lawyers likely to swoop down on us?

    I can't imagine any car's emissions are good at 250+ or at wide-open throttle at any speed - nor is there any requirement to be at the moment.. What's the issue here?


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    used 650S are looking incredibly attractive now.  about the same price (in OZ) as a new Carrera S but a different league in terms of performance and showmanship.


    --

    BMW 1 M + C63 (gone).   997.2 GT3


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    DaveGordon:
    RC:
    The 570S is a monster in the 250 to Vmax range. I have my suspicions but I better keep them for me. Smiley

    There is a reason why some sportscar manufacturers take back boost pressure and/or ignition timings in the upper speed range and this isn't only related to thermodynamics, if you get my drift. Smiley

    I would love to see a real life emissions test on these McLarens in that speed range. Smiley

    Why not discuss?  I'm interested.  Or are McLaren's lawyers likely to swoop down on us?

    I can't imagine any car's emissions are good at 250+ or at wide-open throttle at any speed - nor is there any requirement to be at the moment.. What's the issue here?

    I won't start a discussion based on pure speculations (or rumors Smiley) but even at full speed and full throttle, a car needs to meet certain emissions/lambda values. I am no engineer but I've been told that manufacturers can gain power in certain speed ranges by playing with setups/ignition timings. Is it legal? Hmm, not really I think.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    DaveGordon:
    RC:
    The 570S is a monster in the 250 to Vmax range. I have my suspicions but I better keep them for me. Smiley

    There is a reason why some sportscar manufacturers take back boost pressure and/or ignition timings in the upper speed range and this isn't only related to thermodynamics, if you get my drift. Smiley

    I would love to see a real life emissions test on these McLarens in that speed range. Smiley

    Why not discuss?  I'm interested.

    +1


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    bluelines:
    DaveGordon:
    RC:
    The 570S is a monster in the 250 to Vmax range. I have my suspicions but I better keep them for me. Smiley

    There is a reason why some sportscar manufacturers take back boost pressure and/or ignition timings in the upper speed range and this isn't only related to thermodynamics, if you get my drift. Smiley

    I would love to see a real life emissions test on these McLarens in that speed range. Smiley

    Why not discuss?  I'm interested.

    +1

    My lawyer sucks... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    When using max performance, mine uses about 50 litres/100km.. can’t imagine the emissions bouncing off 9k rpm are that great, either.. 


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    DaveGordon:

    When using max performance, mine uses about 50 litres/100km.. can’t imagine the emissions bouncing off 9k rpm are that great, either.. 

    This, unfortunately, was what was exploited by several automakers, including as we know Volkswagen Group, in the diesel scandal known as Dieselgate.  The previous testing regime didn't test emissions for the entire performance envelop of the vehicles and automakers took advantage of this loophole, until it wasn't there anymore, to very costly consequences for Volkswagen.  With ever tightening emission standards coupled with more stringent testing protocols, automakers are finding it extremely difficult to meet these regulations, hence the massive investment in EVs.  Tesla, to its credit, spearheaded consumer acceptance of the EV; however, as the traditional automakers transition away ICEs, competitive pressures accelerate for Tesla.  Technology economists, and others, speak about the Winner-Takes-All syndrome and the closely related concept of economies of scale; this is the advantage of the largest automakers with their copious positive cash flow and R&D assets.


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Carlos from Spain:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    Its all about demand, there is no problem bringing out consecutive facelifted variants of the 911 GT vesions when you have more people fighting over them than the supply, but when you bring new versions out  every other day when there is not that much demand, you are killing the resale of the prevoius version s you launch the new ones. Personally I dont see a problem, with reason, sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 

    That’s exactly what Lotus has been doing for the past years.


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    I also think that the insurance expense of the carbon fiber tub offsets some of the value of the car. Those who can afford the insurance also afford new versions. Once it is used the high premium on Insurance hurts resale more than when New. I believe the R8 suffers the same fault. 


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    CGX car nut:

    This, unfortunately, was what was exploited by several automakers, including as we know Volkswagen Group

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/volkswagen-golf-r-power-drops-296bhp-amid-wltp-changes


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Grant:
    CGX car nut:

    This, unfortunately, was what was exploited by several automakers, including as we know Volkswagen Group

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/volkswagen-golf-r-power-drops-296bhp-amid-wltp-changes

    That’s just two examples and there will be more in coming weeks.  


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Leawood911:

    I also think that the insurance expense of the carbon fiber tub offsets some of the value of the car. Those who can afford the insurance also afford new versions. Once it is used the high premium on Insurance hurts resale more than when New. I believe the R8 suffers the same fault

    Funny story: I have been taunted by several R8 owners in a German car forum because I said it is difficult to get an insurance for the new(!) R8 because of the carbon tub. Most of them were "old" R8 owners though. 

    Then, two new users reported that they tried to get a R8 and couldn't get insurance for it (either they were too young or had an accidents insurance history). My sales guy also reported about a couple of customers who wanted a R8, they had the financials (cash, lease) and everything was OK but when they tried to get insurance... Smiley

    It seems that insurances here in Germany judge on an individual basis.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    Carlos from Spain:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    Its all about demand, there is no problem bringing out consecutive facelifted variants of the 911 GT vesions when you have more people fighting over them than the supply, but when you bring new versions out  every other day when there is not that much demand, you are killing the resale of the prevoius version s you launch the new ones. Personally I dont see a problem, with reason, sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 

    Did you try to get a new 720s? The demand for that car is huge. The problem with used cars is similar to Bentley - the one who can afford a new don´t buy used.


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    ALDO:
    Carlos from Spain:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    Its all about demand, there is no problem bringing out consecutive facelifted variants of the 911 GT vesions when you have more people fighting over them than the supply, but when you bring new versions out  every other day when there is not that much demand, you are killing the resale of the prevoius version s you launch the new ones. Personally I dont see a problem, with reason, sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 

    Did you try to get a new 720s? The demand for that car is huge. The problem with used cars is similar to Bentley - the one who can afford a new don´t buy used.

    So what about those who cannot afford a new one? SmileySmiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren 600 LT

    RC:
    ALDO:
    Carlos from Spain:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche brings out at the same speed GT models or limited editions and nobody cries foul.....

    Its all about demand, there is no problem bringing out consecutive facelifted variants of the 911 GT vesions when you have more people fighting over them than the supply, but when you bring new versions out  every other day when there is not that much demand, you are killing the resale of the prevoius version s you launch the new ones. Personally I dont see a problem, with reason, sportscars should not be investments and are meant to be enjoyded, 

    Did you try to get a new 720s? The demand for that car is huge. The problem with used cars is similar to Bentley - the one who can afford a new don´t buy used.

     

    So what about those who cannot afford a new one? SmileySmiley

    I mean there are lot of people who spend 363.000 € on a new 720s (the price is the one I would like to have) and change it one or two years later for the new 720 s spider without thinking how much money they lose. 

    The same situation you have with Bentley owners. 

    A normal 720 s costs about 250.000 € - with this car you do not have any significant loss in resale value. The problem starts when you specify 360.000 € for a 720 s and try to sell it two years later. Nobody is willing you to pay the extra money for the MSO parts.  

     


    --

    AM


     
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