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    Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     Hi Guys,

    I'm thinking about getting a Lomborghini Espada. Dont know why but I love this ugly car  - probably because its that awkward!

    If someone has experience in this vintage cars I would be glad to get some hints and tips! Also - if someone has a good example to sell within Europe!

    Thanks, Lars


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     

    http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/1969-lamborghini-espada/193318/

     

    Don't know if you have seen this video before or even if it helps you at all


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     Thank you ggbh8 - didnt know it - great link! 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    This was my school boy "dream car" ever since the father of a friend of mine took me for a fast drive in one back in 1973 or thereabouts. In fact that drive was probably to blame for me becoming the petrol head that I have not been able to cure since! Smiley

    Personally I love the sharp cut Bertone styling - must be my age Smiley


    --
     

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     I love this car too !!!! So unique ! 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     It is unique and so flat. 

    I have seen one a while ago when a guy was arriving in front of a Hotel with it. Boys - that car was attracting more people than a brand new 911. Dozend of people have been standing around, all evening long.

    And the 12 cylinder sound is just amazing, too!

     

     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Lars997:

    It is unique and so flat. 

    [...] that car was attracting more people than a brand new 911.


    So that´s the reason you want to have one... Smiley

    Can´t give you any advice on the car but I assume there are Lamborghini specialists to consult..
     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    yep Ferdie... got me ;) nope.... I had this car in my mind since years, just I feel the moment is come. I That Lamborghini Expert, thats the one Im looking for. so difficult to judge a used car, never got one before!

    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Just make sure you get the car checked by a Lambo expert.

    Best of luck


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Some input.

    Rust. Check very very carefully. These were built before galvinized zinc coatings were used.

    Motor. They are reliable if maintained right. Tuning. The Weber Carbs once synched by a pro, and preferrably a Italian mechanic with good ears, will stay synched. Mobelec I think used to make a ruggidized electronic ignition kit for Espadas that included a special rotor, special cap and a CD type discharge electronic system that replaced the ungodly factory expensive cap and rotors that would wear quickly. Besides not needing frequent replacement it was easier to set the timing and it stayed set. Crankfire will probably make you a new unit that will allow you to have a precision laser timer/ignition system.

    Some owners had cooling issues. The standard radiator worked fine as long as the coolant was frequently changed and doing that with having the front wheels on small ramps and the rear wheels at ground level. The only way to get all of the old coolant out is by draining the car with the rear end of the car lower than the front. If you drain it on the level you will not get all of the old coolant out of the engine, radiator and hoses.

    The original OEM radio was a Phillips am/fm/sw/casstette unit that had 6 or 8 SW bands! It looked really cool then. You can hide a newer digital radio with remote control in the car if you want to keep the original 70's look.

    The two most dangerous areas for owners are the carburator linkage - wich left unmaintained can jam the 4 Weber 2bbl carbs wide open and kill you in a corner, and the electrical system for accessories. Both Ferrari and Lamborghini were notorious in that era for using wire too weak to handle voltage for things like fog lights and fans, and sometimes routed those wires near things that can burn - like upholstry. Also Stoptech in California can make you a new brake kit with better rotors and calipers for modern braking performance.

    If you were looking at Lamborghinis on the West Coast of the USA, the two most knowlegable shops too inspect them are Bobileff in San Diego and one other one in the Santa Cruz area of whose name I forgot.

    You should seriously consider locating a California car because of rust issues. It will also likely cost you less even with shipping as used exotics seem to be substantially cheaper in the US than in the EU. You can shop them at Hemmings.com for starters.

    The Espadas drive nice. It was the fastest 4 seat GT of its era. If you have not seen one in person, the car still looks ok except for the rear side windows wich now look a bit over dimensioned. Back in the 70's I knew of two guys who used thier Espadas as daily drivers for years. They are actually built pretty well for a limited production vehicle and make very nice music when you step on the gas.

    Good luck!

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Thanks Jim - this is a very valuable input! Seems you know that car quit well!

    Thanks again - I will keep you informed whats going on. I have an appointment next Friday to see one, which stands since years in a private exhibition. I will consider your hints!

     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Lars997:
    yep Ferdie... got me ;) nope.... I had this car in my mind since years, just I feel the moment is come. I That Lamborghini Expert, thats the one Im looking for. so difficult to judge a used car, never got one before!

     

    Don't do it, it will cost a lot of money to maintain, it isn't worth it.

    This is not a car you can really drive hard anymore, it would be just for cruising fun.

    Not worth it in my opinion. 
     

    I would choose one of these if I had some play money left:

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2551098&rl=1

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2690010&rl=1

     

    I was always thinking about getting a "muscle car", I just love the sound. The last one may not be classic cars but I've seen them in person and heard the sound of the Shelby Coupe, amazing. Of course I would take the car in black. Cobra black. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    This one is amazing too...look at the prices, you get an Audi family car for that money. 

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2621490&rl=1

    In black for slightly over 40000 EUR (brandnew):

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=1960810&rl=1

    Special Edition with more power:

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2628810&rl=1

    Stealth family Autobahn rocket:

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2340898&rl=1

    680 horses... (I bet most people in Germany don't even know what hit them)

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2435250&rl=1

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    RC:
    Lars997:
    yep Ferdie... got me ;) nope.... I had this car in my mind since years, just I feel the moment is come. I That Lamborghini Expert, thats the one Im looking for. so difficult to judge a used car, never got one before!

     

    Don't do it, it will cost a lot of money to maintain, it isn't worth it.

    This is not a car you can really drive hard anymore, it would be just for cruising fun.

    Not worth it in my opinion. 
     

    I would choose one of these if I had some play money left:

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2551098&rl=1

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2690010&rl=1

     

    I was always thinking about getting a "muscle car", I just love the sound. The last one may not be classic cars but I've seen them in person and heard the sound of the Shelby Coupe, amazing. Of course I would take the car in black. Cobra black. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Each to their own, but can't agree, other than financially! Agricultural American muscle cars with cart spring suspension leave me totally cold.

    As long as pockets are deep for unexpected repairs there is nothing quite like an Italian exotic from that era. The styling, character and above all the sound of hissing Weber carburettors, whining cam chains and bellowing exhausts is a sound that no cars today can replicate, sadly.

    The nearest I ever got to an Italian exotic was the original Alfa GTV6 from 1980, a car with a horrendous reputation for reliability, but although things broke and fell off fairly regularly it never, ever left me stranded or failed to start. I forgave it everything for the styling and the magical sound of that glorious 2.5L V6 engine (accurately reproduced in the Bond film Octopussy).  "Cuore sportivo" as the adverts said at the time. In many ways I wish I still owned it!


    --
     

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    How about this one then (460 little horses)?:

    http://www.geigercars.de/service/angebote.php?mod=detail&vcid=2396450&rl=1

    I actually prefer a modern muscle car with cart spring suspension (do modern US muscle cars really have that anymore?) than a used italian sports car which wasn't even reliable when it was new.  

    I have my share with italian cars and I've sworn to myself: NEVER EVER again.

    A Lamborghini Murcielago could change my mind...if I had the money...and guts (wife, neighborhood). 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    RC:

    I have my share with italian cars and I've sworn to myself: NEVER EVER again.


    Even after your brace of Lancia Delta Integrales? I only had the original 8V one, but I believe the later 16V ones were even more magical!

    Mine was completely reliable and loved the "Q" car styling! You could just blow all comers away on a challenging road on what looked like a normal family hatchback to the uneducated. Smiley

    If I could afford to buy and run an Italian classic today, my choice would probably be the little Ferrari 246 Dino.

    Modern affordable Italian cars leave me cold, I used to truly love Alfa Romeo, I had two Suds, a Sprint Veloce, GTV, GTV6, and finally when I had a small family a 164 3.0 V6 Lusso.  Modern Alfas are sadly just badge engineered Fiats and still unreliable but without the individuality and character.  No thanks!

    --
     

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    I owned four Lancia Delta HF Integrale (incl. my group N race car) and all of them were horrible regarding reliability. You can't even imagine how many various issues I had but maybe this happened because I really drove my cars like a maniac.  

    I'm really a sucker for that good old V8 sound, so most italian oldtimers wouldn't really cut it for me. Not having a deep pocket is another reason I would prefer a modern US car with a big engine and nice V8 sound over any oldtimer.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     Hi RC - I appreciate all your links. 

    The thing with a american muscle car is, that the car might be great but for myself it doesnt give me the same feeling as having an italian vintage. The awkward desing of an Espada always touched me, since many many years.

    The only concern - you dont know what was going on with that car before you bought it. If it was well handled and maintained you should expect to much hassle. Otherwise - bad luck.

    Regarding driving hard - we both like fast driving dynamics. Thats the down path of all vintage cars. None of them will ever reach out to modern cars. The vintage cars you buy because of its emotions and cruising, somehow because of its great sound. And what sounds better than a V12 from 1970? The Espada has the same engine as the Miura but the price tag is far from each other. The Miura I never will be able to buy as the prices reach half a million nowadays. 

    Quit frankly - you cant compare an italian with an US muscle car. Both have the rights to be there, both are great. One gives you the emotions of dolce vita, sun shine and amore the other one is country music, hot dogs and burned rubber. Judge yourself 

     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    I get dolce vita, sun shine and amore from my wife and kids but when I drive, I want to dance, eat fast food and burn rubber.   


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

     Haha.... somehow I knew your answer already before RC! 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Lars, nothing sounds better than a V12 with Webers and no catalytic converters strangling the exhaust.

    Stay away from New Challengers and Cadillacs unless you want Obama to suddenly appear on your Nav screen telling you why you should buy a Chevy Volt.

     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Those vintage US cars look nice but they do leave me cold as long as I am not touring North America in it. The Espada would certainly warm my heart as well.

    I actually found an article [in German] about Lamborghini, there obviously is a proper expert located in the Black Forest.


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    I would actually rather buy that tuned Shelby from Geiger cars than any vintage car because of cost, usability, etc.. Not fun of a fan of oldtimers, I want to drive my cars. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    No i love old cars, who cares that you aren't the fastest in them. It's all about character and that includes you sitting under it fixing parts, which results in you growing closer to it. I love that about older cars, you buy one and there is a story and relationship immidiately.

    RC, what you describe is a loud and fast track slut and you flick around and beat upon.

    With vintage cars this is not the fun part, it's just driving it and enjoying its ownership.

    That CTSV with 680hp is insane though, definition of sleeper!

     

    I say go for it, the Espada is had fro 15 to 25k and you get so much history. Who cares if it needs work, find one that's had a decent life (records of oil changes) and mechanically is honest. The rest can be worked on over the years which is THE FUNNEST part. Interior, trim, even rust to some extend are all fixable, and every hour you spend on her will be highly satisfying and make you grow even closer to the thing..


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Atzporsche:

     

    With vintage cars this is not the fun part, it's just driving it and enjoying its ownership.

    That CTSV with 680hp is insane though, definition of sleeper!

    I really drive my cars very hard and I would be afraid to drive the hell out of a vintage car, it just doesn't feel right. 

    That CTSV is really insane, 680 horses in a car nobody actually knows (Germans could think this is some sort of Opel or even a japanese car) over here...well...

    It is too expensive though.

    I was thinking about getting one of those mean looking and very powerful Ford Shelby GT500 but it is still a lot of money. The Camaro actually seems to be the better deal...for 40000 EUR (cash), you get a decent fun car. For comparison: The Audi RS3 or the BMW 1M are way over 50000 EUR with a few options.

    I have to apologize to Lars for hijacking this thread but vintage italian cars are the best way to get sleepless nights and loose a lot of money. Just my 2 cents on this.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Dont bother driving a new Mustang GT500 Shelby with factory wide stripes. Wide stripes on them means it doesnt have the SVT option. Its the SVT option that comes with narrow stripes ones and a higher vmax limiter.(155mph) wich you can probably repogram to no v max.limit that is best for those suffering from throttle addiction.Smiley

    You can order one without any stripes and with the SVT Performance Package that costs $3000 which includes Goodyear EagleF1 SuperCar G: 2 tires, all-new lightweight 19-inch forged-aluminum wheels in the front and new 20-inch forged-aluminum wheels in the rear, 3.73 rear axle ratio, performance tuned front and rear shocks, along with stiffer springs. The package includes a unique rear spoiler Gurney Flap for improved handling, a slightly revised front and rear fascias, a new pedal box for improved clutch use, slotted brake dust shields for improved brake cooling, standard HID (high-intensity discharge) headlamps, MyKey programmable vehicle key, integrated spotter mirrors, and fold-down rear headrests.

    The SVT Shelbys sit a bit lower making them look better.

    The Mustang convertibles and even Shelby ones both feel like you are driving a car with four corners that all want to go in different directions. They  understeer with a capital U. The coupes are solid and do not handle like the convertibles.

    They are a much better deal than a Audi or BMW whatever. In the US its 50K for 500hp and they turn lower lap times than Latest M3's.

    For the price of a new GTS 997 you can get a Espada and a Mustang Shelby. That makes sense I think.Smiley That way you end up with a Lamborghini and a Shelby wich seems better than just 1 Porsche.Smiley

     


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Lars997 - this car is the spiritual father of the new Ferrari FF... four fast seats, V12, and an unusual profile.  I think the actor Nick Cage had at least one.... so there are people out there who have collected the Espada.  


    --

    2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    It does have the Muira engine, that alone is worth a good chunk of money..

    If shit hits the fan, and the entire thing is costly, just part it out


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Ferdie:

    Those vintage US cars look nice but they do leave me cold as long as I am not touring North America in it. The Espada would certainly warm my heart as well.

    I actually found an article [in German] about Lamborghini, there obviously is a proper expert located in the Black Forest.


    Thanks Ferdie, I will get in touch to him? It is close by! :)

    Re: Support Required: Lamborghini Espada

    Thanks again guys! I found well maintained cars for around 50k Eur. Will see what the expert is telling me and look forward to Friday where Im going to see a car!

     
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