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    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    RC said:
    Guys, I do not want to make the Cayman look bad, it is a fantastic car, no doubt about it but look at the prices Porsche is asking and I kind of think they lost the touch with reality. angry

     

    But people having been saying that about Porsche since the days of the 356.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    bluelines:

    Ignoring everything else, from a performance point of view have they really lost it? Both in a straight line and on a track this new Cayman should be pretty fast. Probably faster than all competition.

    This is a good point and I am sure the guys in Weissach did their homework but is it enough for potential buyers? Time will tell. I still wonder how good (or not) the new Audi TT RS is. The interior is superb and the 5-cyl. engine sounds amazing (according to people who heard it). 400 horses are also a word, especially since this car has AWD and accelerates from 0-100 kph in sensational (for this price class) 3.7 seconds.

    I don't like the rear wing (RS) though...

    Maybe the new Cayman would be interesting as some sort of "inexpensive" track toy (without many luxury options) but we have to see first how well it performs on the track.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    fritz:

    RC said:
    Guys, I do not want to make the Cayman look bad, it is a fantastic car, no doubt about it but look at the prices Porsche is asking and I kind of think they lost the touch with reality. angry

     

    But people having been saying that about Porsche since the days of the 356.  Smiley

    I didn't. I just started a while ago... Smiley

    991.2 Turbo S...203k EUR.

    Cayenne Turbo S...169k EUR (my first Cayenne Turbo S was 136k EUR, incl. many options).

    The latest Cayenne Turbo costs 131k EUR. My first Cayenne Turbo (955) had a base price under 100k EUR.

    Also, the relation to used car prices is also kind of weird.

    My 991 C4 GTS Cab was around 164k EUR new. I can get a used 991 Turbo Cab for this money now, with low mileage. Smiley

    Actually, it doesn't really make sense to buy a new Porsche anymore, looking at the current new car prices (with the exception of the GT models of course). Leasing a Porsche is of course a different story since leasing a used Porsche costs almost the same as leasing a new one.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    fritz:

    RC said:
    Guys, I do not want to make the Cayman look bad, it is a fantastic car, no doubt about it but look at the prices Porsche is asking and I kind of think they lost the touch with reality. angry

     

    But people having been saying that about Porsche since the days of the 356.  Smiley

    Nah, high-end Porsches were decent value in the 997 era. You got exotic, usable performance for a discount because the car itself wasn't that unique, exotic, or even that cool. Now you don't. Now you pay for a unique, exotic design you don't get. Performance is still there, but that's not even that much of a big deal anymore when you consider how the usefulness and practicality of it has plateaued.

    At least in the US, I'd take a Cayman-destroying Z06 for $100K. Better looking too IMO.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    noone1:
    fritz:

    RC said:
    Guys, I do not want to make the Cayman look bad, it is a fantastic car, no doubt about it but look at the prices Porsche is asking and I kind of think they lost the touch with reality. angry

     

    But people having been saying that about Porsche since the days of the 356.  Smiley

    Nah, high-end Porsches were decent value in the 997 era. You got exotic, usable performance for a discount because the car itself wasn't that unique, exotic, or even that cool. Now you don't. Now you pay for a unique, exotic design you don't get. Performance is still there, but that's not even that much of a big deal anymore when you consider how the usefulness and practicality of it has plateaued.

    At least in the US, I'd take a Cayman-destroying Z06 for $100K. Better looking too IMO.

    Even forgot about the Z06...no reason to get a 4-cyl. Cayman if you can get a Z06. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    RC:

    Even forgot about the Z06...no reason to get a 4-cyl. Cayman if you can get a Z06. Smiley

    Except that it is still a Corvette.....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Hah, I bet the Z06 performance is great, but I doubt many will cross-shop Corvette and Cayman. Audi TT, yes. Corvette, no.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    otisdog:
    RC:

    Even forgot about the Z06...no reason to get a 4-cyl. Cayman if you can get a Z06. Smiley

    Except that it is still a Corvette.....

    What is so bad about it? I know many 911 owners who think less of the Cayman (I'm not one of them though...).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    The perception.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    RC:
    fritz:

    RC said:
    Guys, I do not want to make the Cayman look bad, it is a fantastic car, no doubt about it but look at the prices Porsche is asking and I kind of think they lost the touch with reality. angry

     

    But people having been saying that about Porsche since the days of the 356.  Smiley

    I didn't. I just started a while ago... Smiley

    991.2 Turbo S...203k EUR.

    Cayenne Turbo S...169k EUR (my first Cayenne Turbo S was 136k EUR, incl. many options).

    The latest Cayenne Turbo costs 131k EUR. My first Cayenne Turbo (955) had a base price under 100k EUR.

    Also, the relation to used car prices is also kind of weird.

    My 991 C4 GTS Cab was around 164k EUR new. I can get a used 991 Turbo Cab for this money now, with low mileage. Smiley

    Actually, it doesn't really make sense to buy a new Porsche anymore, looking at the current new car prices (with the exception of the GT models of course). Leasing a Porsche is of course a different story since leasing a used Porsche costs almost the same as leasing a new one.

     

    I'm with RC on this one. The best buy right now is a slightly used, low mileage, 991.1 for 80-90K. And I'm not joking about the price. Just look at this black 991 PDK for 79K on sale by an official P dealer :

    http://fr.ww3.autoscout24.be/classified/286785908?asrc=pl|as

    I bet you'd have to pay 120-130K to get a new one just like that. 

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Yes, 991.1 are looking pretty interesting right now...

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    The only issue with the Audi TT RS is the look. The Cayman is not very good looking but the Audi is even worse.

    Porsche has totally lost their mind with the prices. I don't think I will ever buy a Cayenne Panamera (turbos) or normal 911 as there are more interesting choice out there for just slightly more money. Heck for the price of a new high spec Cayman S you can buy a used Ferrari California or a Gallardo or a R8 spider. For the price of the Panamera or Cayenne turbo you can get a used FF. And as mentioned before, the price of regular used Porsches has barely moved in 10 years...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Yes, while that is true, the running cost, the service, the insurance, etc are far higher for those more exclusive used cars. 


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    I don't see what all the price complaining is about with the 718 Cayman.  Is $52,900 that much for 300hp mid-engine Porsche sports car?  I'll reserve judgment on the F-4 motor until I drive one.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Audi TT RS? Really? What is the weight distribution on that car? From a cutaway I've seen, it looks front heavy. Having understeered my way into various obstacles in an Ur Quattro (and a few GTI's) in my younger days, I would not be too excited about the TT.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    A Cayman S optioned the way it should be will be close to $90k...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    SciFrog:

    The only issue with the Audi TT RS is the look. The Cayman is not very good looking but the Audi is even worse.

    The new Audi TT RS looks nice but the rear wing isn't really a highlight of this car. Smiley

    The Audi looks compact and sporty, actually quite unique in it's class. The Cayman looks a bit better in my opinion (I am biased...) but looking at the tech, the Audi wins in my book.

    Porsche has totally lost their mind with the prices. I don't think I will ever buy a Cayenne Panamera (turbos) or normal 911 as there are more interesting choice out there for just slightly more money. Heck for the price of a new high spec Cayman S you can buy a used Ferrari California or a Gallardo or a R8 spider. For the price of the Panamera or Cayenne turbo you can get a used FF. And as mentioned before, the price of regular used Porsches has barely moved in 10 years...

    Sad but true. One reason I was looking at a used Cayenne Turbo S recently...for half the money it was new (Porsche AG owned car, previous model though...958.1) with low mileage. 

    True, for less than the price of a new fully specced Cayman S, you can get a used (previous gen) Audi R8 V10 Plus with low mileage in Germany. Ferrari California or a Gallardo? Not really. Used FF are usually around 200k in Germany, not even close to a Panamera or Cayenne Turbo (around 160k with options).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    SciFrog:

    A Cayman S optioned the way it should be will be close to $90k...

    I disagree and would never order one that way.  My base 718 would be very close to $53k before discount (I see less reason to buy an S than ever before - several reviewers even said the 2.0L is the sweeter motor).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    A Cayman S optioned the way it should be will be close to $90k...

    I disagree and would never order one that way.  My base 718 would be very close to $53k before discount (I see less reason to buy an S than ever before - several reviewers even said the 2.0L is the sweeter motor).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    I agree. For $90k my dealer offered a gt4. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    RC, guess what? You can option the TT RS with wing delete for the new model! If only Porsche does the same for GT3...Also, the new aluminium block 5 cyl turbo is now 26kg lighter than the old one. This will help weight distribution tremendously. Yes, it's going to be so much faster than a Cayman S!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    WAY:

    RC, guess what? You can option the TT RS with wing delete for the new model! If only Porsche does the same for GT3...Also, the new aluminium block 5 cyl turbo is now 26kg lighter than the old one. This will help weight distribution tremendously. Yes, it's going to be so much faster than a Cayman S!

    Was the old 5-cyl an iron block?  I thought it was just half of the Audi/Lambo V-10 which is aluminum...

    Yes, it will be faster than a 718S in a straight line, but I wonder about a road course (and even if faster, I wonder if it will be close to being as fun).  One problem is that they got rid of the 6MT in this generation of TTRS.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Grant:
    WAY:

    RC, guess what? You can option the TT RS with wing delete for the new model! If only Porsche does the same for GT3...Also, the new aluminium block 5 cyl turbo is now 26kg lighter than the old one. This will help weight distribution tremendously. Yes, it's going to be so much faster than a Cayman S!

    Was the old 5-cyl an iron block?  I thought it was just half of the Audi/Lambo V-10 which is aluminum...

    Yes, it will be faster than a 718S in a straight line, but I wonder about a road course (and even if faster, I wonder if it will be close to being as fun).  One problem is that they got rid of the 6MT in this generation of TTRS.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Yes iron block. The old engine is "old school" and the new one is up to speed with all the usual VAG engine tech. Direct injection, aluminium block etc. Best of all, it still sounds like a Gallardo! Actually I'm waiting to see how they will price the RS3 with this updated engine and the virtual cockpit.

    i would say faster almost for sure, given it has a kerb weight of 1440kg with the grip of the TT. The Haldex systems are now pretty good. More fun? Probably not. You'd have to give Porsche that one. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    I specced a Cayman S with the result almost as nice my Macan turbo is (paid $93k for it) and got to $101,125. And I left a few options out that I would really want to get. I don't think I could get rid of my California for that price. Porsche price on options is criminal. Another way to put it is that car in 4 years will be worth no more than $40k. I have lost less in 4 year ownership of my used California. Mind you the Macan turbo 0-60 is on par with the 981 Cayman S PDK 0-60 (4.4s).

    Anyhow the Alfa 4C is a much better option than the Cayman or Boxster.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Porsche price on options is criminal. Another way to put it is that car in 4 years will be worth no more than $40k.

    And if you spec a car at $53k, it will also be worth almost the same.  So, just don't buy the options on a new car (especially on an entry level car).  Buy all the ones you want on a used car (costs the same).


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    bluelines:

    The perception.

    Correct!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    Porsche price on options is criminal. Another way to put it is that car in 4 years will be worth no more than $40k.

    And if you spec a car at $53k, it will also be worth almost the same.  So, just don't buy the options on a new car (especially on an entry level car).  Buy all the ones you want on a used car (costs the same).

    This is not an entry level car. A Honda Civic is. This is a Porsche sport car that seats only two people and has no practical trunk room. The options just bring it to the level of other cars in the same base price range (leather, memory seat, some comfort and performance technology...) as they should be standard.

    Why bother with a used Cayman which most likely will not be the way you want when you can buy a new Alfa 4C instead.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    I personally don't miss things like leather, navigation, and other baubles on a sports car.  I just care about the driving experience and I relish the option not to pay for all the stuff I don't care about.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    It is good to have the choice not to get these options. But the price to add them back is just ridiculous, which is the whole point in the last few posts.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    If I had to replace my cayman today I would take the new cayman. No matter how its power is generated, 4cyl or 6cyl, I do not care, as long as it delivers on the track and I trust it will.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 718 Cayman (2016)

    WAY:
    Grant:
    WAY:

    RC, guess what? You can option the TT RS with wing delete for the new model! If only Porsche does the same for GT3...Also, the new aluminium block 5 cyl turbo is now 26kg lighter than the old one. This will help weight distribution tremendously. Yes, it's going to be so much faster than a Cayman S!

    Was the old 5-cyl an iron block?  I thought it was just half of the Audi/Lambo V-10 which is aluminum...

    Yes, it will be faster than a 718S in a straight line, but I wonder about a road course (and even if faster, I wonder if it will be close to being as fun).  One problem is that they got rid of the 6MT in this generation of TTRS.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Yes iron block. The old engine is "old school" and the new one is up to speed with all the usual VAG engine tech. Direct injection, aluminium block etc. Best of all, it still sounds like a Gallardo! Actually I'm waiting to see how they will price the RS3 with this updated engine and the virtual cockpit.

    i would say faster almost for sure, given it has a kerb weight of 1440kg with the grip of the TT. The Haldex systems are now pretty good. More fun? Probably not. You'd have to give Porsche that one. 

    Correct.  The old TT RS/RS3 motor was a warmed over version of the Volkswagen 5 cylinder engine found in Jettas and Passats sold in North American.  The Volkswagen motor was produced at the company's engine plant in Mexico and was used to restrain costs associated with a low production motor.  The newer aluminum block engine should remove  the few shortcomings of the previous 5 cylinder motors, especially with a nod to reduced weight and better power delivery.  

    The TT RS may have some handing shortfalls relating to its front wheel drive platform origins but there are plenty of YouTube videos showing these cars doing quite well on the racetrack, often passing many higher performance, and more expensive, cars, including some wearing the Porsche badge.  This cars also nipped at the heels of the R8 4.2 and is probably part of the reason why Audi has yet to offer a Mk II R8 with anything less than the V10.  The latest version should be very, very quick.

    It pains me greatly but the TT RS represents a greater value, especially as an all-around, all-season, everyday sports car than any Porsche on the market today.  


     
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