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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    Electronic LSD is fully variable in lock while mechanical is 22%/27% in lock.

    Just one thing-Ferrari is a long time e-diff user.


    Is it a proper electronically controlled limited-slip differential or a brake-applied system as on cheaper cars?

     Hah, I was going to ask the same question.  I understand that the Jaguar XKR-S has electronically controlled mechanical diff (if that made sense!) so it is able to vary the lock from 0 to 100 percent.  That would be pretty impressive if we have that in the 991!  On the other hand, I have the brake-applied system on our new city car the Polo GTI, and it doesn't act like a real LSD at all.

    Strange question since it is after all a 911.
     

    Electronically controlled LSD of course! I have extended file about it in German. It is so called networked system where PDK, PTV and all other systems work together. Lock is fully variable depending on PDK programm, road speed etc. Sharpest one is with PSM off.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    KresoF1:
    WAY:
    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    Electronic LSD is fully variable in lock while mechanical is 22%/27% in lock.

    Just one thing-Ferrari is a long time e-diff user.


    Is it a proper electronically controlled limited-slip differential or a brake-applied system as on cheaper cars?

     Hah, I was going to ask the same question.  I understand that the Jaguar XKR-S has electronically controlled mechanical diff (if that made sense!) so it is able to vary the lock from 0 to 100 percent.  That would be pretty impressive if we have that in the 991!  On the other hand, I have the brake-applied system on our new city car the Polo GTI, and it doesn't act like a real LSD at all.

    Strange question since it is after all a 911.
     

    Electronically controlled LSD of course! I have extended file about it in German. It is so called networked system where PDK, PTV and all other systems work together. Lock is fully variable depending on PDK programm, road speed etc. Sharpest one is with PSM off.

    Is it really that strange a question?  After all, Porsche has left 911s with an open diff for a few generations now!  In fact, you can't even get LSD unless you go for the -20mm option.

    Anyway, it is all great news! Smiley 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porsche is catching up with all the tech. Great news!

    @WAY: on the 997.2 LSD was offered without the -20mm.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    KresoF1:

    Strange question since it is after all a 911.
     

    Electronically controlled LSD of course! I have extended file about it in German. It is so called networked system where PDK, PTV and all other systems work together. Lock is fully variable depending on PDK programm, road speed etc. Sharpest one is with PSM off.


    Kreso,

    so far I am not sure whether PTV Plus is just marketing language for a technically inferior brake-assisted system...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    Electronic LSD is fully variable in lock while mechanical is 22%/27% in lock.

    Just one thing-Ferrari is a long time e-diff user.


    Is it a proper electronically controlled limited-slip differential or a brake-applied system as on cheaper cars?

    Its got to be a proper electronic-diff, since the brake-applied diif was already present standard in all 911 since the 996 with PSM, it was called ABD (Automatic Brake DIferential) and they never reffered to it as an electrionic diff like they do now nor they gave it this importance as a LSD substitute. This one must be really different... makes me want to get a PDK just for it Smiley 20 unfortunately I don't think I could live without the stick and clutch...


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Now that I read again it cannot be a "fake" one.

    PTV Plus in Verbindung mit PDK inkl. vollvariabler, elektronisch geregelter Hinterachs-Quersperre

    Refers to an electronically controlled rear axle differential lock. The terminology they use (Hinterachs-Quersperre) is the same as for the mechanical one. So anything other than a real LSD would have amounted to a trade misdescription IMO.

    Moreover the PDK car cannot have inferior tech to the manual. Porsche count on the PDK a lot.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carlos from Spain:
    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    Electronic LSD is fully variable in lock while mechanical is 22%/27% in lock.

    Just one thing-Ferrari is a long time e-diff user.


    Is it a proper electronically controlled limited-slip differential or a brake-applied system as on cheaper cars?

    Its got to be a proper electronic-diff, since the brake-applied diif was already present standard in all 911 since the 996 with PSM, it was called ABD (Automatic Brake DIferential) and they never reffered to it as an electrionic diff like they do now nor they gave it this importance as a LSD substitute. This one must be really different... makes me want to get a PDK just for it Smiley 20 unfortunately I don't think I could live without the stick and clutch...--

    The ABD worked up to 40 or 50 km/h, so it was for traction during the  initial acceleration of the car.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    Electronic LSD is fully variable in lock while mechanical is 22%/27% in lock.

    Just one thing-Ferrari is a long time e-diff user.


    Is it a proper electronically controlled limited-slip differential or a brake-applied system as on cheaper cars?

    Its got to be a proper electronic-diff, since the brake-applied diif was already present standard in all 911 since the 996 with PSM, it was called ABD (Automatic Brake DIferential) and they never reffered to it as an electrionic diff like they do now nor they gave it this importance as a LSD substitute. This one must be really different... makes me want to get a PDK just for it Smiley 20 unfortunately I don't think I could live without the stick and clutch...--

    The ABD worked up to 40 or 50 km/h, so it was for traction during the  initial acceleration of the car.


     AFAIK the ABS was always ON even if you turned PSM off, the ABD would remain engaged, and its a brake-applied diff as Ferdie describes that initially worked with PSM, and now also with PTM.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Rossi:
    MKSGR:
    pmpsch:
    I think we should vote to ban a928. I mean it is completly unacceptable having a guy who disagrees with the rest of us who now form such a cohesive view.

     It is a quality of democratic systems to allow each individuum to express its own views Smiley


    Smiley
     


    Was being sarcastic guys. Agreed he might have overdone it but have u guys noticed how (too) many of you crushed the poor man! Telling him a get a brain...i mean guys who make such comments should then rather join him to get a group discount. Why be rude! Have been away for a while and am amazed seeing how balanced the forum was regarding the car (based on spy shots pre Rossi's great contribution) to then blindly in love! I like it very much but hey some could have reservations. It is the exchange and confrontation of ideas that make good forums and are the pillars of democraties...for a second while reading how some of you treated the guy it felt like a dictatorship here :) Let's make sure this place stays the good place it is. Peace and love!

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     

     
    When the drive wheels begin to spin, the automatic brake differential function (ABD) initially brakes the individual wheel with the higher level of slip. If both wheels spin, ASR intervenes in a fraction of a second.

     
    Anti-slip regulation (ASR) serves to prevent excessive slip on the drive wheels, thereby enhancing lateral stability at the rear axle. The ASR function is active during acceleration throughout the entire speed range. The engine power is reduced as a result of intervention in engine control.

     

    What is not clearly mentioned is that ABD works at initial acceleration up to some 50km/h (don't remember exactly) whereas ASR at all speeds.

     

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    easy_rider911:
    MKSGR:
    pmpsch:
    I think we should vote to ban a928. I mean it is completly unacceptable having a guy who disagrees with the rest of us who now form such a cohesive view.

     It is a quality of democratic systems to allow each individuum to express its own views Smiley


    Agree Smiley

    The right, and freedom, to express one's views are both crucial of course Smiley No disagreement on that Smiley

    The issue here was that the views expressed (e.g. regarding speculative NoS lap times, visibility of the engine bay etc as being make-or-break factors for whether the 991 should be considered a worthy successor or not) added zero value to the debate and were littering this thread with premature and ill-conceived negativity that was diluting the quality of this important launch thread.

    a928 certainly exercised his freedom to express his views, even though they were ill-thought through. Unfortunately, he also felt the need to keep on repeating them ad nauseam to the considerable irritation of others with a more objective interest in this new model.

    Just my 2 cents Smiley


    Fair enough

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    Electronic LSD is fully variable in lock while mechanical is 22%/27% in lock.

    Just one thing-Ferrari is a long time e-diff user.


    Is it a proper electronically controlled limited-slip differential or a brake-applied system as on cheaper cars?

     Hah, I was going to ask the same question.  I understand that the Jaguar XKR-S has electronically controlled mechanical diff (if that made sense!) so it is able to vary the lock from 0 to 100 percent.  That would be pretty impressive if we have that in the 991!  On the other hand, I have the brake-applied system on our new city car the Polo GTI, and it doesn't act like a real LSD at all.

     On M3, since E46, BMW offers variable lock from 0 to 100 percent without electronical control. The diff. on the M3s adjusts via pressure plates. It is one of the most important thing on driving dynamics of the car.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    Porsche is catching up with all the tech. Great news!

    @WAY: on the 997.2 LSD was offered without the -20mm.


    --

    "Form follows function"

     It was a very clever move. I blame Porsche a lot for not having LSD without sports chassie on my 997.1 Carrera S. Actually, LSD was my only reason to go for sports chassie.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    Now that I read again it cannot be a "fake" one.

    PTV Plus in Verbindung mit PDK inkl. vollvariabler, elektronisch geregelter Hinterachs-Quersperre

    Refers to an electronically controlled rear axle differential lock.


    Correct, reginos Smiley Here's a short video on how the PTV Plus works:

    http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/default.aspx?pool=uk&ShowSingleTechterm=PTPTVP&Category=&Model=&SearchedString=&SelectedVariant=

    BTW Porsche invented a fully variable electronically controlled rear axle differential lock already for the 928. Though It was called "PSD" at the time back, instead of "PTV" now Smiley

    I have no experience with the PTV, but I understand that at low speed cornering (that it is to say before the mechanical differential lock kicks in) the brake will be used on the inner wheel to improve the car's willingness to corner . I guess the "Performance Control" thingy in my BMW X3 works similar, though - as it is not linked with a mechanical diff lock AFAIK - the car eats the brake pads at the rear axle much faster than those on the front axle which seems odd in a car with a front weight bias Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     

    Beautiful profile!!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Indeed! Porsche did an outstanding job.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    From the back, looks like a " 997.3"  , i.e, an another evolutionary change in the rear light cluster design. Car looks taller vs 997 in this pic also -? angle /color/higher placed lights/ debadged   highlighting the large swath  of plastic back there .

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    palenimbus:

     

    Beautiful profile!!

    What a clean shape Smiley Nothing unnecessary, nothing superfluous. Muscle at the right places and plenty of elegance too.

    Some people say the Porsche Design Department is lazy but I think it is very difficult to make successive generations of the 911 and be able to match the new elements with the traditional cues

    BTW from this picture we can see that the drooping outer part of the front LEDs in profile. This design detail helps to make the side of the front bumper look slimmer and more analogous with the rear bumper that has the reflectors lower down. That's how it appears to my eyes at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I agree this a stunning profile pic, now on my screensaver.

    I am sure I have missed this along the way on this thread, but is there a distinctive black strip embedded in the front and rear windows where those windows meet each other, giving the impression of a wider pillar between the two?  Somehow I have never noticed this design before...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    More pics from the 991 in the wild:

    http://www.autogespot.com/nl/viewimages.php?id=c120625082011095919

    I'm sure Timo didn't test the car at the roundabout only Smiley

     

    --
     

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:
     

    Beautiful profile!!

    What a clean shape Smiley Nothing unnecessary, nothing superfluous. Muscle at the right places and plenty of elegance too.

    Some people say the Porsche Design Department is lazy but I think it is very difficult to make successive generations of the 911 and be able to match the new elements with the traditional cues

    The 991 is such a great looking car.  I can't wait to trade-in my 997.  Everytime I see this car, it seems to look better.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Haha ... yes, the roundabout at the Ring Boulevard ... I agree - simply impossible to believe that they didn't take it on the NoS Smiley 


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:
    palenimbus:

     

    Beautiful profile!!

    What a clean shape Smiley Nothing unnecessary, nothing superfluous. Muscle at the right places and plenty of elegance too.

    Some people say the Porsche Design Department is lazy but I think it is very difficult to make successive generations of the 911 and be able to match the new elements with the traditional cues

    BTW from this picture we can see that the drooping outer part of the front LEDs in profile. This design detail helps to make the side of the front bumper look slimmer and more analogous with the rear bumper that has the reflectors lower down. That's how it appears to my eyes at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    I do not argue taste. Like what you will, but clean shape? Look again... it's a longish profile (a la Jag XK), slightly hunchback (a la Panamera) with a bunch of weird creases and bulbous Toyota/Hyundai-looking headlights.

    Here is a clean shape:

     

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    sevoman:
    993S:

    I never  used the sport button on my now sold 997  turbo but I kept looking at the wart and wishing it wasn't there. I really do not care for a so called sharper throttle as it brings nada. In fact to me it makes the car less enjoyable. The less gimmicks the better. I want to get me a lean and clean 991 in red with black wheels. Less is more.red 991.jpg

    PSE:  if there was an option for "quiet exhaust" I would tick it. 

     I am not a fan of red Porsches. But I think this looks sensational particularly with the black wheels.

    Is this a new red?? 


    I think my next purchase will be a Guards Red 991TT.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:

     

    I do not argue taste. Like what you will, but clean shape? Look again... it's a longish profile (a la Jag XK), slightly hunchback (a la Panamera) with a bunch of weird creases and bulbous Toyota/Hyundai-looking headlights.

    Here is a clean shape:

     

     

     

    OTOH to me these two pictures are very clarifying when side by side, our 997 looks now like smaller, less sportier brother of the 991, kind of like the 964 vs 959, not to the same extent of course but just to illustrate my point. I never got that impression when seeing the 997 vs the 996, but the 991 has done a much bigger jump towards a sportier and aggresive stance aesthetically. And if its this way in pictures, its going to be much more accentuated when ever they are seen in real life side by side.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    You are right... the 997 definitely looks smaller than the 991, and that is great! I would like it even smaller. Since when should sports cars be large? Heck, I even like the Mazda MX5.

    We are clearly at a crossroads. I suppose I am the odd man out... everyone is going GT. 

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:

    You are right... the 997 definitely looks smaller than the 991, and that is great! I would like it even smaller. Since when should sports cars be large? Heck, I even like the Mazda MX5.

     Not smaller in that sense, smaller as performance hyearchy, like Boxster vs 911.

    We are clearly at a crossroads. I suppose I am the odd man out... everyone is going GT. 

     

    How do you know, have you driven it? maybe  the 991 with PTV, new aero-S-PASM, new PDK with new LSD, SC-Plus, stiffer and lighter chasis, 20" wheels, etc will make the 997 drive like the GT. I think that conclusion you make is unfair and premature, I certainly don't have the clairvoyance to won't know until I drive it. Its interesting that I like 911 that are sportier even than what you preffer (I like the manual and with the stiffest sportiest suspension option) yet I'm giving the 991 the benefit of the doubt in that regard and you on the contrary are calling it a decafinated 911 Smiley 10 Maybe you are right, but your guess is as good as mine (actualy I don't have a guess yet) right now. We ca judge the looks of the 991 but not the handling and character, that, only a test drive can solve Smiley 21Smiley 4


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I love the proportions (at least in the pics) of this new design.  In virtually every angle so far it looks perfectly balanced.

    To me, in profile, the rear, the front, and the cockpit look like they have finally found the perfect shape.

    The front turn signals have really grown on me too.

    I'm going to enjoy looking at 991's for the next 6 years or so.  Excellent work Porsche!!

     

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carlos from Spain:
    ADias:

    You are right... the 997 definitely looks smaller than the 991, and that is great! I would like it even smaller. Since when should sports cars be large? Heck, I even like the Mazda MX5.

     Not smaller in that sense, smaller as performance hyearchy, like Boxster vs 911.

    We are clearly at a crossroads. I suppose I am the odd man out... everyone is going GT. 

     

    How do you know, have you driven it? maybe  the 991 with PTV, new aero-S-PASM, new PDK with new LSD, SC-Plus, stiffer and lighter chasis, 20" wheels, etc will make the 997 drive like the GT. I think that conclusion you make is unfair and premature, I certainly don't have the clairvoyance to won't know until I drive it. Its interesting that I like 911 that are sportier even than what you preffer (I like the manual and with the stiffest sportiest suspension option) yet I'm giving the 991 the benefit of the doubt in that regard and you on the contrary are calling it a decafinated 911 Smiley 10 Maybe you are right, but your guess is as good as mine (actualy I don't have a guess yet) right now. We ca judge the looks of the 991 but not the handling and character, that, only a test drive can solve Smiley 21Smiley 4


    --

     

    I do not need to drive it. Just look at it! Larger, GT luxury, ridiculous sunroof, electric e-brake, 20 inch rims, electric power-steering, overly complex curves/rear. The active roll-bars fit in a large sports sedan or SUV, not in a sports car. More tech to go wrong. If you like a simple, timeless shape, that is lost. You like it, and that is great. I do not. I may keep my car forever, or move on to a Cayman, which may now be closer to my concept of a sports car.

    I am not putting down the car. I am sure many will like it. PAG knows that and that is why they designed it this way, along with some other political reasons. Performance-wise I have no doubt it will be better. But for some of us, that is not the ideal direction. There are incredibly performing GTs and I would never want them.

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    palenimbus:

     

    Beautiful profile!!

     Great photo. Thanks for posting!Smiley


    --

    "People ignore design that ignores people."


     
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