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    Never say Never......

    I've separated from the love of my life and I'm now lonely and sad. No not SWMBO - she is still my long suffering wife - our Boxey. Sadly she caused the current loss. Firstly she is short of leg (vertically challenged) and can only comfortably drive two-pedal cars, which means she couldn't drive the Boxster other than in an emergency. This has meant having three cars, and the Boxey becoming a bit of a garage queen - we have driven less than 4000 miles in it in the last year! It was an emotional farewell to her today at the dealer. SWMBO said it was like saying farewell to a member of the family. If cars have soul, then maybe the Boxey was sad, too. Smiley She was by far the best car we have ever owned. Interesting though the dreaded rear main seal was on its way out, and changed FOC under the extended warranty. 

    So let me tell you all a story. Last weekend, we took our Boxster down to our dealer for it's four year service - doesn't time fly!!! Whilst SWMBO was distracted the clever salesman said "why don't you try our Cayman 2.9 PDK demonstrator"? Well I thought he would be offended by his kindly gesture, so we accepted. "Take it away for a couple of hours and have a play" SWMBO came along of course under protest. I drove half the time then I pulled in and said to her "you have a go!" After much protest - she is nervous about driving new cars - she got behind the wheel, still protesting. then after no more than 500 metres she suddenly said "Ohh - I really like this!!!!"  So back she drives to the showroom, we played around a bit on the configurator, and then spent several sleepless nights about whether or not we should spend all that money on yet another Porsche. Honestly  we've worried less in the past about moving jobs or homes!! Many telephone calls, and Emails later bartering over price - UK dealers  NEVER give discounts on new Porsches - the factory supposedly strictly forbids it to protect residual values. We eventually ended up with a deal, partly by compromising a little with the spec, partly by taking advantages of the very good savings on some of the option packs, and also bartering with three dealerships within good driving distances from me  brought the "to change figure" within the strict limits we had set ourselves.

    So, we have just ordered a new aqua blue metallic Cayman S PDK, with a decent spec, but we have not thrown so much money at options as we did last time on the Boxster, as we have not gone for 19" wheels, PASM, electrically adjustable comfort seats, chrome tips or sports exhaust. But we added things like Sport Chrono Package Plus, which gives sport and sport + programmes on PDK, and launch control, although I suspect that we won't use that very much.

    We are also considering the possibility of another factory collection, it does make the car feel special, and also the Porsche Museum is now open. The main thing worrying us is what the weather will be like, we understand our car will be built in late October, so early to mid November would be the dates. We don't have winter tyres, so don't much like the idea of a long trek up the Autobahn from Stuttgart if the weather is likely to be bad.


    --
      BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    Starting with end of October, there is always the risk of snow or snow rain. The heavy snow usually starts around middle December but the weather has been crazy lately, so you never know. I wouldn't take the risk if I were you, especially since the german law requires "tires according to weather conditions". This law has been questioned lately in court but for insurance reasons, I would be careful.

    The Cayman S PDK is a very fast toy indeed but lately, there have been huge rebates on Caymans. I'm not sure if the whole "UK dealers never give discounts on new Porsches because the factory forbids it" is true but in Germany, you can easily get 10% or so on a brandnew Cayman S, even more if you are lucky. Depending on the options, this is a huge amount of money.

    Also think about the new Boxster/Cayman generation being just around the corner with some rumored major decisions regarding the Cayman.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Never say Never......

    RC:

    Starting with end of October, there is always the risk of snow or snow rain. The heavy snow usually starts around middle December but the weather has been crazy lately, so you never know. I wouldn't take the risk if I were you, especially since the german law requires "tires according to weather conditions". This law has been questioned lately in court but for insurance reasons, I would be careful.

    The Cayman S PDK is a very fast toy indeed but lately, there have been huge rebates on Caymans. I'm not sure if the whole "UK dealers never give discounts on new Porsches because the factory forbids it" is true but in Germany, you can easily get 10% or so on a brandnew Cayman S, even more if you are lucky. Depending on the options, this is a huge amount of money.

    Also think about the new Boxster/Cayman generation being just around the corner with some rumored major decisions regarding the Cayman.

     

    Thanks for the advice, RC, much appreciated.Smiley Looks like another £1,000 saved!!

    I've read the various threads here and it would appear that the all new Boxster / Cayman is probably two years away by the time they arrive on our shores. By then, the cost to change would have been far in excess of what we could justify, possibly even further if stories that Porsche are going to push Boxster / Cayman further up market to make room for the rumoured baby Boxster turn out to be true. So it really is a case of now or never for us. I'm not sure whether the "no discounts" rule in the UK is fact or fiction either, particularly as it doesn't seem to apply in any other country, but all three dealers we spoke to said the same. We didn't get 10% discount, but I don't think we did too badly - by Porsche GB dealer standards anyway, and, in addition, as mentioned above, we saved well over £1,000 by choosing the comfort and infotainment packs rather than specifying the options individually.  But if there hadn't been some "price flexibility" as well we definitely wouldn't have done the deal, a fact we made very clear to all from the start of the negotiations.


    --
      BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

     Congrats Dreamcar! Now you can both enjoy the Porsche 


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    Thank you Carlos!


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    Congratulations, comes a bit surprising after your recent remarks about expenses and frequence of use. Do you replace one of the other two cars as well?

    If you should get winter tires for the Cayman, would there be any possibility to install them at factory collection?


    Re: Never say Never......

    Ferdie:

    Congratulations, comes a bit surprising after your recent remarks about expenses and frequence of use. Do you replace one of the other two cars as well?

    If you should get winter tires for the Cayman, would there be any possibility to install them at factory collection?

    Hi Ferdie Smiley

    That's exactly why we've changed! Because SWMBO found it difficult to drive the Boxster, (she was actually unsafe, because there should be at least 300mm distance between chest and steering wheel airbag, and she had to sit much closer than that to depress the clutch fully). We have a third car that she uses for commuting, the sale to the Porsche garage when the new car arrives is part of the Cayman deal..

    She will use the Cayman for commuting, my trusty BMW 123d will still do the 60km each way drive from my home on the edge of the New Forest to Portsmouth.

    We don't need winter tyres here, it is very rare we get sufficiently bad weather to need them. I asked the Porsche garage about that yesterday and they've never sold them. Expensive for just a one way trip from Stuttgart.


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    Congrats dreamcar, sounds like a very nice car you ordered there.

    Cayman S, PDK, Aqua blue, great choice.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Never say Never......

    Congratulations.  Have you decided on the full spec yet?  I use the Sport button all the time becasue PASM is too soft for spirited driving, the sharper throttle response allows more aggressive heel and toe downshifts (not really relevant to PDK) and the relaxed PSM is an occassional hoot on wet roundabouts.  It makes even more sense with PDK but the Chrono part is laughably useless.  The LSD and TPMS are also really useful options.


    Re: Never say Never......

    GR:

    Congratulations.  Have you decided on the full spec yet?  I use the Sport button all the time becasue PASM is too soft for spirited driving, the sharper throttle response allows more aggressive heel and toe downshifts (not really relevant to PDK) and the relaxed PSM is an occassional hoot on wet roundabouts.  It makes even more sense with PDK but the Chrono part is laughably useless.  The LSD and TPMS are also really useful options.

    Hi Gr Smiley

    Thanks for your words. We got the spec half right (TPMS) but we didn't go for the LSD, we had to draw the line somewhere, and as we aren't planning to track the car we didn't tick that box.

    We agonised over spec all week, as well as whether or not to buy the car at all, because we had to decide on Saturday - build date is mid October and for that slot closure date for the spec is 21st September.

    We finally settled on :-

    aqua blue metallic, Cayman S11 wheels, Coloured wheel centres, TPMS, Comfort pack (biXenon dynamic lights, autodim mirrors and rain sensing wipers, climate control, cruise control, Porsche crest on head restraints), Infotainment pack (PCM incl extended navigation, phone prep incl. Bluetooth, USB interface) Sound Package Plus, Ocean blue full leather, standard seats, heated seats, rear wiper, park assist, PDK, sport chrono package plus, rear section of centre console in exterior colour.

     

     

     

     


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    Rossi:

    Congrats dreamcar, sounds like a very nice car you ordered there.

    Cayman S, PDK, Aqua blue, great choice.

    Thanks Rossi Smiley We were initially going to have Carrara white or guards red to keep the cost down but SWMBO decided it was worth the extra cost to have Aqua blue. Sat in the showroom yesterday, with their aqua blue Cayman demonstrator, I had to agree with her!! Smiley


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    GR:

     The LSD and TPMS are also really useful options.

    Is the LSD only of benefit when you are driving like you stole it? Is the handling any sharper at more normal speeds? The salesman's advice was not to bother if I was not planning to track the car.  Advice please -  I've got until the day after tomorrow to change my mind!!! Smiley


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    LSD is a must, not only for track racing. Full leather is questionable since you won't see any of the additional cost coming back when selling the car. Standard seats ? C'mon, the shells are the most comfortable seats I ever encountered on a Porsche and I'm not built like Twiggy in her old days.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Never say Never......

    Sounds like a great car. Caymans have a nice look. LSD is a nice option if you ever hit the gas hard and will help on resale.


    Re: Never say Never......

    RC:

    LSD is a must, not only for track racing. Full leather is questionable since you won't see any of the additional cost coming back when selling the car. Standard seats ? C'mon, the shells are the most comfortable seats I ever encountered on a Porsche and I'm not built like Twiggy in her old days.

    Thanks again RC, our first Boxster had the Porsche sports seats, and SWMBO found them so uncomfortable it was a major factor in selling our first Boxster early.  Our second car had the electric "comfort" standard seats and she loved them. No way as long as God made little apples would she get on with the buckets - she tried them in a Boxster Spyder - I never knew she learnt words like that.....Smiley Smiley

    We both love the ambience of the full leather, lovely neat stitching where on the standard car there are cheap looking mouldings. To us it helps make the car special.

    So LSD or no LSD, that is the question! Is it noticeable during normal driving - remember sadly we don't have your great autobahns and suffer much conjestion. Is LSD better / safer on tight bends on greasy roads?

     

     


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    dreamcar:

    So LSD or no LSD, that is the question! Is it noticeable during normal driving - remember sadly we don't have your great autobahns and suffer much conjestion. Is LSD better / safer on tight bends on greasy roads?

     

    Because of its mid-engine placement, it "needs" the LSD more than a rear-egined 911 for example, but you will normally only notice it when driving "hard" in the tighter-slower bends where the LSD helps the rear negotiate the turn under throttle.

    When driving boxster/cayman on a tight track the most noticeable thing I found was that without the LSD, when the rear starts to loose traction as you come out of the turn and start to accelerate at the limit of the rear's traction, the car tends to "die on you" on the corner since the torque gets lost going to the faster spinning wheel. So instead of coming out fast, the car slows down on you, like an intrusive electronic stability system from a typical family car kicking in on you. Its very annoying and unsportive. With the LSD you can still be on the throttle all the way out of the corner at the rear's limit. With the 911 also happens but since its rear-engined, its harder to provoke and less evident.

    Thats the acceleration part but there is also another benefit of the LSD, and that is under decelartion, as you brake into a corner, with the LSD the car is more stable and tends to wiggle less.

    As to "safer" on slippery roads I wouldn't be able to say since they also have PSM and this is much more important in terms of correcting oversteer/undesteer, etc than the LSD, and its the one that really intervenes when you loose it, so I don't know if LSD on these cars with already PSM will make the car safer on slippery roads.

    But then again, unless you are driving hard, i.e. conditions were the LSD comes into play -one wheel spins at different speed than the other -, you are hardly going to notice it in normal driving. That said, I consider it a must like RC said. Makes the car behave a lot sportier and fun in the corners! Smiley


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    Carlos is right. If/when you go to Silverstone, the LSD will make an enormous difference to stability on the ice hill.  Also, the car feels more stable as weight transfers, which is important at all speeds.


    Re: Never say Never......

    Carlos from Spain:
    dreamcar:

    So LSD or no LSD, that is the question! Is it noticeable during normal driving - remember sadly we don't have your great autobahns and suffer much conjestion. Is LSD better / safer on tight bends on greasy roads?

     

    That said, I consider it a must like RC said. Makes the car behave a lot sportier and fun in the corners! Smiley


    --

    OK, GR, RC and Carlos I'm convinced. Smiley I'll ring the dealers in the morning. I greatly appreciate your advice - I'm spending a lot of money and for the sake of £700 I might as well get it right. Who knows, if I pluck up enough courage I might risk the 'Ring next year with porsche_jeck and easy.....Smiley

    What a great place Rennteam is for unbiased and experienced advice!! Smiley

    It's cheaper than the factory collection I was thinking about anyway!!!


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

      I think that at £700 its a great bang for the buck option (considering the price of many Porsche optional equipment ), and you also have to take into account that its not one of those easily retrofitted options should you not get it initailly and regret it later on 


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    Dealer has now confirmed that limited slip differential has been added to the spec. Only one other customer of that dealership has requested this since this option became available. Smiley


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    dreamcar:

    Dealer has now confirmed that limited slip differential has been added to the spec. Only one other customer of that dealership has requested this since this option became available. Smiley

    I'm glad for you Smiley

    It's wise to add the LSD. A great addition at a %nately low cost and don't think you need to race the car to feel the difference.

    Actually the original Mk 1Cayman was criticised for not offering a LSD option and many owners installed after-market like the one from Quaife.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Never say Never......

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Never say Never......

    Carlos from Spain:
    dreamcar:

    So LSD or no LSD, that is the question! Is it noticeable during normal driving - remember sadly we don't have your great autobahns and suffer much conjestion. Is LSD better / safer on tight bends on greasy roads?

     

    Because of its mid-engine placement, it "needs" the LSD more than a rear-egined 911 for example, but you will normally only notice it when driving "hard" in the tighter-slower bends where the LSD helps the rear negotiate the turn under throttle.

    When driving boxster/cayman on a tight track the most noticeable thing I found was that without the LSD, when the rear starts to loose traction as you come out of the turn and start to accelerate at the limit of the rear's traction, the car tends to "die on you" on the corner since the torque gets lost going to the faster spinning wheel. So instead of coming out fast, the car slows down on you, like an intrusive electronic stability system from a typical family car kicking in on you. Its very annoying and unsportive. With the LSD you can still be on the throttle all the way out of the corner at the rear's limit. With the 911 also happens but since its rear-engined, its harder to provoke and less evident.

    Thats the acceleration part but there is also another benefit of the LSD, and that is under decelartion, as you brake into a corner, with the LSD the car is more stable and tends to wiggle less.

    +1 Perfectly explained Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Never say Never......

    dreamcar:

    Dealer has now confirmed that limited slip differential has been added to the spec. Only one other customer of that dealership has requested this since this option became available. Smiley

    Wise decision Smiley

    Is it required to get 19" wheels to get LSD?

    LSD was the main reason for me to order -20 mm sports chassie with my ex-911.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Never say Never......

    pride355:

    Wise decision Smiley

    Is it required to get 19" wheels to get LSD?

    LSD was the main reason for me to order -20 mm sports chassie with my ex-911.


    LSD available with 18" or 19" wheels, manual or PDK transmission. It isn't vailable with the 17" wheels that are standard on the 2.9 Cayman.


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    pride355:

    Because of its mid-engine placement, it "needs" the LSD more than a rear-egined 911 for example, but you will normally only notice it when driving "hard" in the tighter-slower bends where the LSD helps the rear negotiate the turn under throttle.

    When driving boxster/cayman on a tight track the most noticeable thing I found was that without the LSD, when the rear starts to loose traction as you come out of the turn and start to accelerate at the limit of the rear's traction, the car tends to "die on you" on the corner since the torque gets lost going to the faster spinning wheel. So instead of coming out fast, the car slows down on you, like an intrusive electronic stability system from a typical family car kicking in on you. Its very annoying and unsportive. With the LSD you can still be on the throttle all the way out of the corner at the rear's limit. With the 911 also happens but since its rear-engined, its harder to provoke and less evident.

    Thats the acceleration part but there is also another benefit of the LSD, and that is under decelartion, as you brake into a corner, with the LSD the car is more stable and tends to wiggle less.

    +1 Perfectly explained Smiley


     

    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am very grateful for the informed advice and explanationsSmiley  I would definitely not specified the LSD otherwise, in my attempts to keep the extras in check, and the car would not have been so "complete" as a result. Smiley

    viva Rennteam!!!
    --
     

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Never say Never......

    dreamcar:

    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am very grateful for the informed advice and explanationsSmiley  I would definitely not specified the LSD otherwise, in my attempts to keep the extras in check, and the car would not have been so "complete" as a result. Smiley

    viva Rennteam!!!


    But don't expect us to pay for all those extra options. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Never say Never......

    Nice to get the blessing from the Mrs, dreamcar, I think it makes all the difference when both are on board...My other half thinks there a waste of money which is a bummer..She has just purchased a run around, its a Suzuki Swift costing 12k , road tax £30 a year and cheap insurance. thats her idea of value and a car ....

    Congrat's, buddy...


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Never say Never......

    When you can't change the wife's attitude to cars - it's time to change the wife.... 

    Only joking Keith - how's it going buddy? 

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Never say Never......

    Rossi:


    But don't expect us to pay for all those extra options. Smiley


    I had been hoping for a few donations.......Smiley


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


     
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